Hello everyone, it’s me again.
Yesterday I got an e-mail from an old friend whom I haven’t heard from in a long time.
It was not a very nice e-mail, very aggressive and condescending.
The guy was pretty much accusing me of a bunch of stuff that I had nothing to do with, and making a bunch of other crazy negative claims.
No, I’m not here to ask for advice on how to deal with it or anything like that.
It’s actually about my reply to it. I don’t know where it came from, I just wrote and what came out was pretty interesting.
And I think it highlights one of the main issues people have these days, and the solution to it.
Alright, here it is (translation may not be perfect)
“Hello, buddy. Long time no see.
Is that how you talk to an old friend? To be frank it didn’t sound friendly at all, just hateful.
I’m not glad to hear you’re in such a miserable situation, but I have nothing to do with it. Remember how we haven’t met in like two years and things weren’t this fucked up back then? Hmm?
So I don’t see why you’re blaming me for what’s happened.
It’s strange, you told me several times what a dick I am, but you never explained any so called connection between me and what’s happened. You told me a bunch of times that I owe you, but never gave any reason for that.
You asked me 22 times to apologize, but for what?
I don’t even know what it is I think you have done. I don’t see how our problems with your economy, health, fiancee, social problems, and so on are at all related to me.
But alright, let’s play this game.
I’m sorry that I was working while you were slacking.
I’m sorry that I was eating healthy while you were stuffing down junk food.
I’m sorry that I gave my body a chance to recover while you were using bullshit “medicine” to hide your symptoms.
I’m sorry that I was working out while you were watching tv.
I’m sorry that I was reading informative books while you were reading comics.
I’m sorry that I was working on my social tree while you were browsing stumbleupon.
I’m so sorry that I was out there dating girls while you were home jacking off.
I’m so sorry that I saved my money while you wasted yours on weed and booze.
I’m so sorry that I got up at 7 every morning while you slept in as late as you could.
I’m so sorry that I went to meditate with monks while you played videogames.
I’m so sorry that I learned meditation and martial arts while you learned a bunch of useless stuff.
I’m so sorry that I pumped all my time and money into making my own business while you worked a shitty dayjob and spent the money on worthless entertainment.
I’m so sorry that I thought about philosophy while you thought about stupid stoner bullshit.
I’m very sorry that you always did as little as you could get away with, instead of doing your best.
I’m very sorry that you always doubted yourself instead of thinking straight.
I’m very sorry that you always took the easy way out and always looked for instant gratification.
I’m very sorry that you just sat there doing nothing while other guys took the girls that you wanted.
I’m very sorry that you settled for some mean, fat, dumb bitch who ended up fucking you over.
I’m very sorry that you let envy and blame games run your life.
I’m very sorry that you always looked for support and validation and never tried standing on your own two legs.
I’m very sorry that you “couldn’t” stay sober enough to deal with your problems.
I’m sorry that your “big plans” were deluded and don’t fucking work, and that you refused to listen when people explained this.
I’m sorry that you lost your friends because they couldn’t stand your negativity.
I’m sorry that She CHOSE me and not you.
I’m sorry that your friend overdosed and that you can’t get over it.
I’m sorry that the world doesn’t work the way your deluded mind thinks it does.
I’m sorry that human biology isn’t fond of the poisons you fill yourself with.
I’m sorry that the world doesn’t recognize your greatness, whatever that may be.
Most of all, I’m so fucking sorry that I got myself out of the dirt while you decided to stay there. And I’m so sorry that you rejected all my offers to help you.
I’m “better off” than you for a reason. I worked fucking hard for it, I’ve spent so much time, energy and money on this. I’ve earned it.
There is only one person to blame for your misery, do you know who that is?
It’s you. You chose this. These are the results of your actions.
Just look at my sarcastic apologies, those differences in our actions and habits are what make all the difference.
You have put yourself here, and I warned you about this many many times, I tried helping you a lot but you refused.
When you tell me that I should recruit you because you’re my friend and your tremendous intelligence is a great asset and that I owe it to you… just what the fuck are you talking about?
Friendship means nothing in this game.
Would you hire a friend, that’s never seen a boat and doesn’t even know what a sail is, to build your boat? To sail it? To repair it? You would drown.
Would you bring a friend, that’s never held a weapon or faced fear, into war? Not only would he just be a burden and weigh you down, he would also get himself killed, and probably a bunch of comrades too. And if you survive, you’ll be getting the blame for that.
This is my battleship, and you don’t belong on it. Sorry mate, but that’s just the way things are. There are other things you could do very well, but not this.
You wouldn’t be of any help, and you wouldn’t enjoy it at all. It’s not a place for you.
As for the intelligence, you just said that Manimal is a bunch of morons with idiotic mentalities and imbecile agendas. If that is so, what use would we have of intelligence?
And just what is this intelligence you speak of? Your huge collection of useless trivia? Your knowledge of every comic book character ever? Your grades in useless things like history, maths, and the structure of languages?
By the way, how much time and money did you spend for that? A shitload, right? And where did it get you?
Look what I did, and where it got me.
WHICH WAS THE SMARTER CHOICE?
You’re not as smart as you think you are.
And I don’t owe you anything. I’ve done a lot more for you than you’ve done for me.
But you are my friend, and I wish the best for you. I want to help you, but I can’t help you if you won’t let me.
This is the last time I make this offer. I want nothing in return. But you gotta be willing to work hard and make sacrifices, for yourself, that’s the only way to improve your situation. If I hear any more negativity or excuses from you the deal is terminated.”
That’s where the relevant part ends, the rest is just personal stuff that’s irrelevant to this thread.
So what I mean when I say it’s relevant to this forum is all about the part about BLAME and REJECTING HELP.
That’s the main thing that’s standing in the way for most people who want to reach higher. And since that’s what this site is all about, this is good relevant information.
So let’s discuss these things.
Blame, responsibility, and being receptive to help. The worthlessness of apologies. Getting over your bullshit and working hard. Etc.
What’s your stance on this?
@manimal, This is amazing, I agree with you 100% on all of it. Blaming others only causes us to keep doing what harms us because we don’t realize that there is only one person in this world that can make our life better and that is us.
I might print out your list of apologies just to keep in my room to remind me to keep working on improving myself if that’s alright with you.
@emecom, I’m glad you liked it.
Of course it’s alright, I’m gonna totally steal your idea and do the same thing, thanks for that.
Blame is lame. I don’t remember who said it, but someone said that “to blame = to b lame” and I think that’s a very clever and accurate way of putting it.
Don’t b lame, don’t blame. Should be a slogan.
@healingchime, Troll! Begone or I shall smite you with my mythical thunder anti-troll sword of glory.
Nah just kidding you’re right, I’m frustrated like a three-peckered owl. I hope you put out on the first date cuz I’m bringing the lube.
Haha this is b-low me.
Yeah, he obviously didn’t see how hard you were working. He didn’t see the sacrifices you were making to get where you are. Some people don’t want to reach higher then themselves. And if they don’t want to admit it they start blaming others for sure. I don’t get what he is asking for you to apologize for as well. Other then attempting to keep in touch, which makes one bitter, but it sounds like he is more jealous than anything.
No one ever wants to hear that they are the ones doing something wrong. That it is their fault. That they are the culprit. everyone wants to be the victim. everyone wants to be right.
I wish that more people could come to terms with that fact. It would open up so much more growth in the world. And the worst part is, no one can help them out. They have to do it themselves, but if they never see that they are the problem, they will never get better.
@manimal, haha this sounds kinda like the dynamic between my roomate and I, I wonder if we’ll ever end up at this point later on in our lives.
As for the post itself I like it quite a bit. Namely I like the way it shows a comparison of the hard worker vs the slacker at the end of the road (or at later on in the road).
Though I wouldn’t necessarily call the maths useless shit everything else here is pretty spot on.
@manimal, “Poor me boo hoo! What did I do to deserve this? Why didn’t you help me?” some people need a slap in the face. I went on an anxiety chat room to offer some help to people since I’ve pretty much overcome my anxiety In all areas but a few. The responses were exactly like this. The people were acting like children because the answer to their problems was too simple and straight forward to handle. They even started playing the age game, so sad.
hrmm… im not really sure why you thought saying all that was helpful, you are just going to piss him off more, you know this, and when he is mad he will close his ears and not listen because you invoke an emotion if you respond so bluntly, so instead of him hearing you, listening to you, he will only hear the emotion spinning in his head,
seems a lil inefficient if you are trying truly to help him,
it seemed you spent more time belittling him then showing any real concern, real concern would have responded to his rant with indifference, because real concern is not about the emotional response he elicits in you, real concern is seeing past the words, tone, and seeing the core of the individual, and helping that, not feeling the need to smash him because he just attempted to smash you,
i dunno, from an efficiency standpoint, communicating in that manner produces only clogged results, making it inefficient
and i assuming you were trying to help him bc you stated
–But you are my friend, and I wish the best for you. I want to help you, but I can’t help you if you won’t let me. This is the last time I make this offer. I want nothing in return. But you gotta be willing to work hard and make sacrifices, for yourself, that’s the only way to improve your situation. If I hear any more negativity or excuses from you the deal is terminated–
–No, I’m not here to ask for advice on how to deal with it or anything like that. It’s actually about my reply to it–
so basically, you just wanted everyone to see what you said to him, right? so everyone could know how -good- you got him? interesting….
@tine, I think you are looking in to it too much, he is using this as a way to bring up the topic of blaming others and accepting responsibility. Besides even if he is just showing everyone how he “got him” its still an interesting read that should apply to all of us.
@tine, “hrmm… im not really sure why you thought saying all that was helpful, you are just going to piss him off more, you know this, and when he is mad he will close his ears and not listen because you invoke an emotion if you respond so bluntly, so instead of him hearing you, listening to you, he will only hear the emotion spinning in his head,”
Again, Tine? Again you’re making claims that don’t match reality.
You may react like that when people are blunt with you, that doesn’t mean everyone will.
And he didn’t, yknow, he’s coming over on Monday to start his training.
You don’t know what you don’t know, and why so damn pessimistic?
“real concern would have responded to his rant with indifference, because real concern is not about the emotional response he elicits in you, real concern is seeing past the words, tone, and seeing the core of the individual, and helping that, not feeling the need to smash him because he just attempted to smash you,”
Haha wow, even more strange claims.
I wasn’t angry or anything, I was telling it like it is. Not everyone is reactive like that yknow.
I wasn’t smashing the guy, just slapping some truth into him, because he fucking needed it.
“i dunno, from an efficiency standpoint, communicating in that manner produces only clogged results, making it inefficient”
Again with these assumptions, and again reality says otherwise. It worked like it was supposed to. And it works most of the time, it works really fucking well.
The world out there isn’t like an internet forum, and not everyone is too full of themselves to listen up.
“so basically, you just wanted everyone to see what you said to him, right? so everyone could know how -good- you got him? interesting….”
Put down the carrot, that’s an ugly-ass strawman you’re building there.
I wanted to show the message because it shows how fucking silly it is to blame and be a dick, and what really makes the difference between success and failure.
Don’t be such a negatron.
It seems your grudge is blinding you.
— I think you are looking in to it too much–
yes, i am looking past the words and observing what-was-done, the action, how manimal spoke to this person he claims to care about and wants to help was completely counterproductive, there is a contradiction between what he saying and what he is doing in the scenario, what he is saying is, “How DARE you blame me for your problems”, but what he is doing (action) though, is something completely different,
consider a close friend, ok, now consider how you would communicate with them if you wanted them to be receptive to what you are saying, you being empathetic here is implied because you have labelled this person, ‘friend’, therefore, of all people, you should give them some grace, cut them some slack
do you tell this friend he married a fat bitch? do you down your friends physical abilities, sexual prowess, do you attack his ego relentless? do you make him appear stupid?
–(manimal) “But you are my friend, and I wish the best for you. I want to help you, but I can’t help you if you won’t let me.This is the last time I make this offer. I want nothing in return. But you gotta be willing to work hard and make sacrifices, for yourself, that’s the only way to improve your situation.–
see here, after bitch slapping his ‘friend’, he covers his tracks and makes it appear like he said it for his benefit
(( — if he said it for his benefit he would not have purposefully provoked him — ))
manimal is smart enough to understand this
can you start to see the illusion?
do you really think what he said to the guy was helpful to him?
“I wasn’t smashing the guy, just slapping some truth into him, because he fucking needed it.”
mind boggling, simply mind boggling
“Again with these assumptions, and again reality says otherwise.”
lol, simply bc you can bully someone into submission does not mean that that method is the one you should use
here brother, some points to consider since i am too lowly to provide you with any insight,
”You can have no influence over those for whom you have underlying contempt” – Martin Luthor King
all the, “I’m sorry that I” comments and what followed after, communicate, contempt for the individual, you ripped at every part of him,
–to deny this is to deny reality–
so please, argue Martin Luthor King here, justify you cutting at your ‘friend’
and just know, i won’t keep commenting, i only offer another opinion, don’t feel the need to respond to these opinions, they are lowly in nature, therefore warrant no reply
Realizing how egotistical all of us can be, I understand you’re urge to share this as a form of displaying your merit, as a means of shaming your friend and others like him, and as basis for intelligent discussion on valuable topics.
However, I’d like to know what it is that you do, how it is that you came to do this, and what good does it serve? True, your friends lazy stoner ways of passing the blame as often as the joint may be a common nuisance in society, but are you offering something tangible to the populace? If so, what drives you now, and what drove you to the ‘now’? I’d like to know more about Manimal and what makes him so hell-bent on lecturing everyone about responsibility on a regular basis.
I do believe work reflects gain, therefore hard work is a good policy, but not necessary if you don’t care to receive much. Maybe at one point in his life he was content with his work/slack ratio but perhaps he’s let it slip too far in recent years? I’ve been the diligent worker-bee, and I’ve been the lazy stoner, and everything in between, but I know the difference and the consequences of both extremes. Work too hard and you become detached from the luxuries and begin to despise your efforts: miserable. Don’t work enough or not at all and you become listless, careless, and without luxury: miserable. Find a happy medium and perhaps you find peace; you may not be the richest or the most powerful or even free, but neither are you enslaved, downtrodden, or without gain.
Blaming others unfoundedly is downright wrong, yes, but blame does hold its place. You blame the cook for overcooking you steak and ruining your meal, you blame your parents for beating you and making you an aggressive person, you blame the store whose unseen spilt liquid you slipped in and broke your leg, etc. But of course, blaming someone for things they’ve had no direct contact with is absurd.
Being receptive to help… hmm. How receptive to help were you when first venturing into the world of whatever it is you do? How receptive were others for that matter? Not everyone needs help, but some people think they do and some don’t, or some want it and some don’t. Some people think they need it, but don’t, while others do need it, but don’t think they do. Plenty of people make their living, some quite successfully, without any assistance whatsoever. Others may owe alot of “Thank you”s.
I don’t see how apologies are worthless. They’ve been responsible for dissolving feuds and wars, they bring friends and family back together, and they are a means of displaying humanity. Humanity in that if we feel regret, and we display this regret, those that witness it can relate, as everyone has experienced regret, then forgiveness can be found though not always is it found. “I’m sorry” is just as important in this world as “Thank you” and “Fuck you” are.
And finally we come back to responsibility. What’s past that you are responsible for? What good, and what bad? What future responsibilities do you hold? Personally, I’m responsible for: theft, fraud, death, hatred, parents disowning their child, the financial hardship of others, the emotional hardship of others, giving/sharing, restitution, apologies and forgiveness, love, acceptance, regret, prosperity, happiness, self-restraint, self-respect, empowerment, my fiancee, my dog, bills, schooling, careers, my life and the experiences I share with everyone I encounter, and how the experiences affect myself and those others. I decided to be vague so as not to drag on very much. The good and bad of past and present are heavy burdens to bear, yet we all go about our days without noticing how many experiences we share and how much influence we truly have. When you begin compiling all of it, it becomes a monument to who you are, and whether your statue is hideous and deformed, or brilliant and powerful, is all up to you.
There is no past,
There is no future,
There is only the now and the action you take to shape each now.
It seems to me like his friend was lacking some perspective, and manimal just provided him with it in his usually blunt manner. Unless you are his friend or a friend of his friend (ie: some who knows the situation) who are you to say he was wrong for talking to his friend like this? It may have been exactly what was needed to be heard and perhpas has/will do him some good, how can you say? And while I did note emotion in the tone, it seemed more of frustration than of condescension. He made sure every point was highlighted by the sarcastic use of “I’m sorry,” not in a ‘I’m better than you’ manner, but in a ‘this is how it is’ matter-of-fact way.
@tine, Haha you’re not looking past the words, you’re looking into your own projections. Huge difference.
I wouldn’t like a friend who wasn’t straight to me, I wouldn’t like it if they hid the truth or tried to stoke my fucking ego.
I wasn’t attacking the dude about anything, he was the one who brought those subjects up, and he did so in a very negative way. As he always does.
I always treat egos relentlessly, what’s the fucking problem with that? It’s just fucking ego. And if it’s fucking things up, it’s gotta be put to an end.
I’ll never stroke someone’s ego and I expect people to have the same respect to me and not do that.
You’re just confirming what I said earlier, you’re too damn attached to ego. That’s why you complain about bluntness and mercy and all that jazz.
Get over it.
I wasn’t covering any tracks at all, my cards remain on the table. It was all for his benefit.
What do I get out of helping the guy? Nothing, really. It’s a fucking favour.
I don’t bully anyone, and I don’t like seing people submit, not one bit. That’s like nails on a chalkboard to me,
I’m telling the guy to STOP being a bitch, not telling him to become one.
There have been many people who influenced civilization and history a fuckload a lot who held very much contempt for the people. Hitler, Stalin, Nixon, those are some quite recent major examples.
However I hold no contempt for people, especially not my friends.
I didn’t rip at the dude, seriously where do you get all this shit? I just showed him how the “bad things” in his life were just results of HIS CHOICES.
I’m glad that you choose to stop posting, cause your shit is tiring.
What you’re doing is called spamming, and that’s the #1 “thou shalt not” of an internet forum.
Do you take pleasure from flooding other people’s threads with your personal bullshit?
Because you do it a whole damn lot.
very true, we can only speculate from the sidelines, but i think my intrepation is fairly accurate, manimal and i have had looonngg convos in private over all this, also in the threads, i see his approach very clearly
but again, i may only think i do, either way, my opinion is merely that, its a take or leave kinda things
”However I hold no contempt for people, especially not my friends. I didn’t rip at the dude, seriously where do you get all this shit? I just showed him how the “bad things” in his life were just results of HIS CHOICES.”
(Tine): mind boggling, simply mind boggling
sry for lying man, i won’t comment anymore now, dang, just realized i said that earlier as soon as i sent that last Martin Luthor King quote and the question i asked you that you answered incorrectly earlier, you words did show contempt, you were mad because he attacked you, you then attacked him in return and cut him in every way possible, ”in every way possible”, it looks pretty ignorant to stand by and say those were for his benefit,
(( — those words were for your benefit. –))
it looks pretty ignorant to stand by and say you hold him no contempt, your unnecessary words reveal the truth here, there is nothing but contempt in them, there is no need to treat a friend that way, for you to say otherwise…. well, i don’t want to overuse the ‘i’ word, so i will imply it.
@tine, Do unto others as you would have done unto you, that is a motto that defines my lifestyle. If I’m fucking up I don’t want people to lie about it, I want the cold hard truth.
Words are just noises and letters, words themselves have no meaning. There is no contempt in a word.
Getting mad is for suckers, I was merely communicating the way I always do. Yes I swear a lot, that’s just my fucking culture. Doesn’t mean I’m fucking angry or someshit.
The “unnecessary” words reveal nothing that wasn’t already seen.
Your projections are NOT reality, they’re figments of your imagination, get that into your head.
I treat my friends like this because I want what’s best for them, and they treat me the same way, it’s called respect and esteem. Keeping things real, not being bitches about it.
I’m glad you’re dropping out of the thread. You’ve already posted more than anyone else, and what you posted had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FUCKING TOPIC.
@manimal, Good letter, but do you think he will be wise enough to understand what you are saying? I mean, if all the things you are sarcastically sorry for are true, then it seems your friend is very ignorant and I highly doubt that the receiver of this letter will get it with then intentions that the sender sent it with.
Anyway, I do not know if this is a reflection of society as it is only now, or a reflection of how we humans are, and I reckon it is the latter.
Furthermore, would you think you would have a similar/same approach if you would be confronted with this situation? I mean, not only due to the fact that you have less time to think about what you are going to say, while in a letter you can rewrite your words etc., but also the fact that writing these kind of things is easier than actually saying them in person.
@manimal, This is a “Please RSVP ASAP” invitation to some deep drama. If that’s not your thing, you might not want to send that message. If that is your thing, you couldnt have phrased your response more eloquently.
@donjaime23, I have no idea what that means.
@filipek, It seems he took it the way it was intended.
Yeah he’s very ignorant and messed up, but he wasn’t always like that.
It is mostly, if not almost exclusively, a matter of social conditioning. But on the other hand, of course society does not create anything at all on its own, it just amplifies what people feed into it, so human nature is behind it all.
But it should be mostly in the adaptive situational aspect of human nature, it’s a complicated thing with a lot of back and forth, but what matters is that humanity doesn’t have to be like this.
This is the approach that I use in real life as well.
In fact, you can go a lot harder in real life, because there is more than words to it. Lots of subcommunication and “vibe” involved. That’s all lost in written communication. 93% of human communication is non-verbal.
Sure there are some people who think they can see this stuff through text on a forum, but they’re merely projecting their own imagination onto other people. Strawman syndrome, as we saw such a prime example of earlier in this thread.
That, and, people aren’t assuming that everyone’s a dickhead in real life. On the internet people usually do, because a lot of people become total fucktards when they communicate on the web, and many people respond by assuming that anyone who gets a bit “offensive” is one of those fucktards.
That’s not the case in real life. I get great rapport from most people, a lot of people open up really well. And there’s very little drama.
That may also be partially due to culture, as I’m not in the US where it seems the national sport is taking offense.
But mostly it’s in the communication.
The web is a whole nother game.