A question for anyone who does not like Christianity

 backcase (@backcase) 4 years, 9 months ago

Keep these questions in mind but do not post your answers to them. This is not my question.

Is it that you do not like the religion/spirituality?

Is it that you do not like the people who call themselves Christians?

Is it because of history?

Keep these questions in mind but do not post your answers to them. This is not my question.

My question is:

Do you agree with what Jesus said and has done?

August 1, 2013 at 1:26 pm
Diah (5) (@subtlebee12) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

I usually don’t indulge in religious debate because I don’t wish to offend anyone BUT when it comes to stating the logic and truth, I can’t hold back.
The whole idea of original sin is as original as Christianity. When Abrahamic religion talks about God being all merciful all just, it doesn’t limit His forgiveness upon conditions of any sort but sincere repentance and intention.
Why God, who is beyond any human limitation, whose mercy surpasses any human understanding, whose justice is way more sophisticated than humans (If we are talking about the Creator God, the all knowing, the all encompassing) Then this logic that fellow Christians represent that He gave his only son for people to forgive them, is just very contradictory to the very definition of God.
I know bible goes through alot of editing every then so often, but some parts just are very rational and logical, like this one
“But the children of the murderers he put not to death; according to that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, as the Lord commanded, saying, ‘The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall die for his own sin.’” 2 Kings 14:6

“But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.” Jeremiah 31:30
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And as for your original Question
The message of Jesus (may peace be upon him) was as pure and simple as from any prophet before him, which was to believe in One God.
He never called himself a Christian, he was born a Jew. He observed all Jewish practices. He never consumed pork. I’m pretty sure, he will be quite shocked to see how his words have been changed, edited over time to turn his message about monotheism to polytheism.

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Adam (118) (@moonglade) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@backcase, Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought mohammad came before jesus so wouldn’t we be seeing mohammad in jesus?

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DaFunks (365)M (@Dafunks) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@moonglade, You are wrong. The mythological person Jesus was born 630 years before Muhammed.

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Adam (118) (@moonglade) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@dafunks, True say. Whatever I don’t know much about this cause quite frankly I don’t really beleive any of it as truth. It is true that jesus had some cool ideas and such but anybody just by reading genesis can tell that christianity is pretty much mythology.

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DaFunks (365)M (@Dafunks) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@moonglade, Don’t feel bad. It is all story and myth so these numbers are as valid as Genesis is.

The fact anyone still believes this shit is highly worrying,

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backcase (204) (@backcase) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@subtlebee12, Are you of the islamic faith?

I noticed that you did the whole ‘pbuh’ thing.

But anyway, Jesus was the messiah prophesied to come by every one of the prophets.

Remember how Jesus said that there is no man greater than John the Baptist on the earth?

Well John the Baptist said that he himself was not even fit to untie the sandals of Jesus.

“I baptize you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and Fire” I think the quote is that.

Also, as a Christian I will admit that I don’t eat pork because I still want to respect that aspect of Judaism, but I cannot judge those who do. Jesus said “it is not what goes into mans’ mouth which makes him unclean, but what comes out of it”.

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LVX (297) (@Vovinawol) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

Wrong site to spam really!

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Tine (366) (@tine) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@backcase,

i would follow the insight he offers,as to the claim of being god i would pause.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@backcase,

i like how those most antagonistic are the furthest off from the question you asked, which puts your first set of questions into context, as if that were your point.

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Braindead (14) (@braindead) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@backcase,
It is not so much hea dying for your sins i have a problem with. It is your weakness for putting your sins on somebody else i have a problem with. Dont you have any honor? Why dont you carry your own cross instead of letting somebody else carry it for you?

Also i kind of se christianity as a cult of death worship.
You all kneel down to a dead man on a cross hoping for a better life after death. That tends to bring out a self destructive and decaying culture.

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Anonymous (21) (@) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

You know jesus was like Jerusalem is lame and so he wandered away for a couple of years down the Silk Road in his teens. Ran in to Buddha Gurus also maybe bumped into Buddha himself. And they were all probably meditating a LOT. And jesus was a having sensation called Satori which is brief instant of enlightenment while you are mediating, a glimpse into your own god-head and he gets done and he’s all like fucking mustard seed dude and things like ‘I will die for all your sin” but all his silk road apostles no he means that heaven is here on earth and you don;t have to die to experience it and with that knowledge you’ve reached enlightenment and your soul moves on and sin becomes irrelevant. >>Peace

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Skilgannon (6) (@turdus) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

Christianity was made up to control the masses and give an easy escape from this world to unintelligent and close minded people. I do not see anything wrong about it though, unless you try to force your opinion on me or others.

As for the Bible, it is a fictional book, which was concluded centuries after Jesus died – there is no real evidence of what he did, everything is biased. And not only that – certain parts and whole books were taken out just as the Church commanded.

I feel sick when I am reading what you say @backcase, you should be ashamed. But then again, you are like most Christians… Ignorant and unwilling to hear out other people…

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Ray Butler (1,422)M (@trek79) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@backcase, I think what a lot of religious people need to realise is that any interpretation of anything, no matter how positive the results of applying, is still just an interpretation. You can have a vision of Jesus and behave according to that vision, and if it makes you whole and balanced in your life then it is truth to you.

But the real truth is that people deserve to accept or reject whatever they want, they have a right to form a vision that makes them whole and gives them balance, there may be one best way to do that but there are plenty of adequate ways to do it also.

You can have this compulsion to share your understanding with others, and all you can do is your best at that, but it is ultimately up to them if they want to listen or not. The desired affect Jesus intended was to encourage love, so the moment you see your words inspiring anything but love, it is a sign to back off.

But the same can be said of everyone else, when you feel hate building within you because of what someone else is saying, that is also time to back off, and it is very much easier to tell if you are feeling hate than it is to know if someone else is feeling hate. The hater is always the first to know when they are feeling hate, so they should take some responsibility for their conflicts.

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Anonymous (2,653) (@) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

Okay, these discussions have been always very strange to me and often ridiculous, but now I I finally understand why. I’m not a Catholic. There’s a BIG difference between Roman Catholic Christianity and Eastern Orthodox Christianity. I guess I’m writing this for others to have an idea of the differences.

Faith and Reason

“Following the Holy Fathers, Orthodoxy uses science and philosophy to defend and explain her Faith. Unlike Roman Catholicism, she does not build on the results of philosophy and science.”

God

Roman Catholicism teaches that human reason can prove that God is;
Following the Holy Fathers, Orthodoxy teaches that the knowledge of God is planted in human nature and that is how we know Him to exist.

Christ

Why did God become man? The Roman Catholic answer to this question differs from the teachings of the Holy Orthodox Church.

Following the holy Fathers, Orthodoxy teaches that Christ, on the Cross, gave “His life a ransom for many” (Matt. 20:28). “For even the Son of man came not to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many” (Mark 10:45). The “ransom” is paid to the grave. As the Lord revealed to the Prophet Hosea (Hosea 13:14), “I will ransom them (us) from the power of the grave, I will redeem them from death.” In a sense, He pays the ransom to the devil who has the keeper of the grave and holds the power of death (Heb. 2:14).

According to Roman Catholic theology, God became man in order to satisfy the divine Justice which was offended by the sin of Adam. In other words, by his sin Adam offended the infinite God and, therefore, his sin had infinite consequences. It was not within the power of sinful and finite man to make amends, for the sin of Adam (“original sin”) passed to us; but it is our obligation to do so. Only Christ, Who was God and man, could pay this “debt of honor.”

He pays the debt by dying on the Cross. His death makes up for what Adam had done;

Now I understand why Catholics quote that Jesus died for their sins! Well, this was interesting…

Following the Holy Fathers, the Orthodox Church holds that when Adam sinned against God, he introduced death to the world. Since all men are born of the same human stock as Adam, all men inherit death. Death means that the life of every human being comes to an end (mortality); but also that death generates in us the passions (anger, hate, lust, greed, etc.), disease and aging.

The Nature of Man

Following the Holy Fathers, the Orthodox Church holds that when Adam sinned against God, he introduced death to the world. Since all men are born of the same human stock as Adam, all men inherit death. Death means that the life of every human being comes to an end (mortality); but also that death generates in us the passions (anger, hate, lust, greed, etc.), disease and aging.

Roman Catholicism has ordinarily paid little attention to the Orthodox conception of man as slave to death through his passions as manipulated by the devil. In fact, the devil has been pushed to the background. Thus, the Crucifixion has been understood by the Latins as Christ suffering punishment for the human race (“vicarious atonement”), when, in truth, Christ suffered and died on the Cross to conquer the devil and destroy his power, death.

EVEN OUR ATHEISTS ARE LESS ANNOYING

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Anonymous (2,653) (@) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

Seriously though, from so many differences how can I consider myself a follower of anything? People are fucking confusing.

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backcase (204) (@backcase) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@tine, “i would follow the insight he offers,as to the claim of being god i would pause.”

Well the whole ‘being God’ thing really comes from the old testament and the gospel and letters of St. John, who was Jesus’ favorite disciple. He was young and his mind was fresh and pure, so he could understand clearly and put into practice what Jesus taught.

I see him as the best witness to Jesus.

“i like how those most antagonistic are the furthest off from the question you asked, which puts your first set of questions into context, as if that were your point.”

Well I kind of wanted to take people away from their hatred for religion for a moment to look at Jesus. Seems to me that many are still hung up on religion and can’t look passed it.

I was going to make a follow up thread called worship and explain the range of religion/spirituality, which is a curve ball I threw in the OP.

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backcase (204) (@backcase) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@turdus, Well, I respect you and your opinion but I feel much differently than you.

Many think I am closed minded because I believe it is a closed minded idea to just think that religion is a meaningless scam.

There is much more to it than that.

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backcase (204) (@backcase) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@trek79, Thank you for the advice.

I’m just trying to raise the cross high so it can be clearly seen.

My duty is to do as the wind does when it clears the clouds so that the sun can shine upon all.

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Ray Butler (1,422)M (@trek79) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@beyond, Haha, I feel you, it is confusing stuff, I don’t even think they really know what they are talking about.

The way I seen it was that Jews used to place their sins on an animal then kill/sacrifice the animal, so the sin was taken away, but the animal is imperfect and so cannot take sin for all time, hence they make sacrifice a regular custom.

Jesus IS said to be perfect, so his sacrifice covers all of humanity for all time, something an animal couldn’t do, but the cost is that; although we cannot help to sin (in this sense sin just means making a mistake) we can control our intentions and intend not to sin.

Basically a good intent that fails is a failure of means, not a failure of intent, and in this case intent absolves the error, but if you intend wrong then this is a failure of intent, which the sacrifice of Jesus does not cover.

But death is the cost of being able to control our intent, it is also to show that God is not protecting us. If God is protecting us, it would be obvious and everyone would be so scared of losing that protection they would always intend to do the right thing, but when there is no evidence of God then we are free to choose to have good intent or bad intent, you can do whatever you want because you can believe that God does not exist and so there is no punishment.

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backcase (204) (@backcase) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@beyond, I use a bit of all of that in my faith and I have shown that, but I do not want to just try to justify myself.

So, I respect your thoughts, thanks

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backcase (204) (@backcase) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@trek79, Jesus forgives and cleanses a contrite heart.

The water is repentance.

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thegoodlife (68) (@thegoodlifevisual) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@backcase, Jesus is Fictional The New Testament was really about Apollonius of Tyana. This was covered up by Constantine to create the Business of the Catholic Church. Christ is actually Kundalini.

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Ray Butler (1,422)M (@trek79) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@backcase, Yes, I don’t see God or Jesus as the type to hold animosity toward people, but the conditions of the sacrifice are about earning life in Paradise, and without earning it you can only remain in death, that is not something God or Jesus is doing to us, that is what we do to ourselves.

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backcase (204) (@backcase) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@trek79, Exactly.

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Ray Butler (1,422)M (@trek79) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

@backcase, I basically believe that stuff but one difference I make to most other Christians is that it is an after death thing. I think that when people live and love in a kind and considerate way, they create themselves and environment full of people that respect and appreciate them.

These others simply do not seek to make your life harder, they may even work hard to make sure they don’t make your life harder, they are more likely to help you where they can, to protect you, they may see the examples you set and decide to follow them also, they may even find new examples to set that you may follow also.

Although life still has its pains; heartache, injury, death, tragedy, loneliness, boredom, fear, sorrow, annoyance, stress, other people who are not so considerate, despite these things still being a factor in life, you are living a much more harmonious life, not just with others and the environment, but harmony within you, because you grow and appreciation for yourself, self respect and dignity.

You can be a person who can get by without guilt or fear about how your actions may be harming others and making them want revenge. You can just be the person you want to be, the only thing being that you know that any of your behaviour could have consequences that may make your life harder, or that making the lives of others harder may cause them to seek to make your life harder.

So it just comes down to discipline, self control and a bit of wisdom, exploring new and better ways to do things that can make the whole environment function more smoothly. I see that as what is really meant by life in Paradise, a person who lives like that lives very well, a person who doesn’t has no real life at all.

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