I am just curious on people’s views on abortion. I personally am pro-choice. I believe it is someone’s body and there decision. Either way the U.S. should at least keep things straight, for example if a someone kills a pregnant women they get charged with two accounts of murder but if a pregnant women has an abortion nothing happens. This is a little two-sided in my opinion. I could even go into the sanctity of life, which in a lot of conversations goes hand in hand with abortion, which is all sorts of wrong in my opinion. What are others thoughts on this?
With “pro-choice” you do realize there is one who does not have a choice in this instance? One who is directly affected by an abortion who did not consent to it? But I suppose there is a legal age of consent, 16 or 18 years old, perhaps we should be able to kill children at any time up to this age.
I do believe that life begins at conception but logically you have to agree at the very least that after the brain has even started to grow, there is a consciousness in that unborn baby. A life that will be terminated. It is very hard for me to admit this as a sexually active young adult but if I was faced with such a decision as whether to abort or adopt I would choose adoption. My views don’t necessarily stand for cases of rape victims but many women actually give birth to the children anyway. Feel free to debate I don’t want this to turn into an argument because I want to hear other’s views on the subject as well.
But yeah, I believe people have the right to choose anything in life, as long as all involved consent to it. People can choose birth control, there is a thing called the morning after pill. Just don’t start nothin, wont be nothin. Take responsibility for fuck sake, no one wants to kill a fetus, no matter how new, it is one of the worst things anyone feels they have to do. So avoid it like the plague and if you fuck up, step up.
I don’t know about anywhere else but there is a pill called the morning after pill here in Australia. This can be taken, I think, anywhere up to a week after sex, give or take. This is a precautionary thing incase of accidents or rape, though I know birth controls are not an option with some religions. This is taken pretty much before most tests can even detect conception. I have heard that you can only have it once in every while because it is not the healthiest option, but I can not see this method as an issue, you have to give people some chance.
Up to 120 hours after sex.
@trek79, is that not abortion as well then (morning after pill)? Sensitive subject to talk about, I can go either ways in this discussion. On the one hand I can totally agree with Ray that you cannot end life just like that, even when it is unborn life, but on the other hand I can understand that when you get to know (and nowadays a lot is possible in medicine) that your child has, for example, some incurable disease which is detected already during pregnancy (say 2/3 weeks), I can understand that people do not want to take that burden on them. And remember that this in the old times, like for example in Greece, children where just thrown off a cliff when not meeting certain requirements, so we are more humane nowadays. I do not want to justify killing life through abortion by these arguments, but I find it understandable if people decide to do this. Of course it is something you can accept, but then again you have to realize what sacrifices you will have to make, and if you are willing to make those. If not, and you will neglect the child instead, then I think it would be very wise to consider the option of abortion.
And furthermore the obvious rape examples, which cannot always be helped with a morning after pill @ray, because some victims are too ashamed to admit they are raped, only after some time it will come out.
Yes there are many variables in the whole issue to take into consideration. It has been decided by groups that the morning after pill is a type of abortion, yes it could be considered that, but I personally would like to not be absolute in my view on this. There are these instances you raise about defects and silent rape victims that I would also have sympathy for. It is a very difficult subject because once you draw a line it is hard to undraw it. I primarily had accidental and irresponsible conception in mind with my earlier comments. You then permit one kind but not another, it is like saying one couple cannot get married but another can.
@generaltitsvonchodehoffen, what greater good? No greater good develops from abortions (for the most part), it just teaches people they can erase their mistakes with no repercussions. Not saying people don’t have the right, but that comment is just ridiculous. Policy changes will never solve anything, it’s people’s minds that have to change.
I’ll take a 100% logical standpoint on this.
If you believe in abortion, you believe in murder. You are killing another human being, and denying it an existance. You are completely taking away a human’s freedom to live. Its a fact.
If you argue against this in any way you are succumbing to cognitive dissonance. Or, you are creating a very hazy, subjective line between what is murder and what abortion is. You are still killing a human being. The ability for the mind to distinguish these two events is cognitive dissonance!
@ijesuschrist, this isn’t typically a debate I involve myself with, but I’m uncomfortable with your use of the word “logical.” What’s murder? You can’t really define murder as simply the taking of a life, unless you’re willing to also include killing in self-defense, euthanasia, just war, ending life support, and the death penalty under the same umbrella. I’m not saying any of these things are exactly like abortion, but you need a more nuanced understanding of murder if you’re going to toss it around in the premises of your argument.
@ijesuschrist, I’m sorry to disappoint you but it is not a fact. We have to agree first upon the fact that an unborn foetus can be classified as a human being already. And in this matter we differ, because I do not find a foetus a human being until it will come out of the mother and live his life independently on earth. No matter if its one day old or nine months old.
And I have to disappoint you once again, because I am not succumbing to cognitive dissonance. Yes a foetus is life, but until it will be born, it is part of the mother, and therefore it cannot be classified as individual life yet in my opinion. It is part of the motter like any other organ, because it cannot live its life independently yet. So one can argue that killing the foetus is nothing more than killing an organ, even when the foetus (supposedly) is conscious.
And in your way of thinking we are all murderers, not of human beings, but of life, because all of us have killed some sort of life in some sort of way, even when it was not consciously. When you do not agree with me that you are a murderer, you are succumbing to cognitive dissonance.
I would argue that even after the baby is born it still isn’t able to live independently. Leave a week old baby at home alone for a month or two and see if it is able to survive (disclaimer: do not actually attempt this). So up until the child is able to live independently of anyone else we can abort it?
But this topic has been discussed ad nauseam.
@mikeyw829, I would not exactly say no repercussions, unless someone is a complete shitstain, no woman (or girl) can get out of this process without it being quite probably THE hardest decision she could ever make. This is an incredibly emotionally scaring event, something she will most likely regret, even if she always continues to believe it was the right thing.
There is only 1 situation that I can think of where an abortion isn’t done for selfish reasons, and that is when continuing with the pregnancy would put the mother’s life at risk. All other reasoning is selfish, in my opinion.
Consciousness is one thing, any animal is conscious when it is awake, unconscious when asleep. As for self awareness, animals have this also, relative to the cognitive development of a species, and age. But as for sentience, this is best described as “An emotional being that displays conceptual thought” now it does not matter if a being has conceptual thought, or will develop it in time, but that it displays it. If it can be shown if a faetus can or cannot display conceptual thought then it can be deemed or rejected as a sentient being.
I think this “abortion is only okay under certain scenarios” business is bullshit.
If you believe that abortion is murder, but it’s okay under specific circumstances, then by proxy you must believe that murder is okay under specific circumstances.
Pro Choice, means everyone has the right to choose. First, doesn’t the choice begin when you have sex? 2nd, Why does the male never get a choice? If the male does not want the child, he is still obligated to pay child support for forever. If there was a such thing as true choice, the male would be able to say, “I don’t want to pay for this child.” Which, in my opinion is more honorable than just killing the child because you are irresponsible.
If pro choice exists, it shouldn’t be biased towards only females.
The entire genetic code of the child exists at conception. The heartbeat can start just a little while after that, it doesn’t take long. If we allow pro choice, in order to take away life, then we can never actually live in a free world, where people can choose, because the ultimate choice to live is never an option for you.
Pro-life is the only sensible way.