So much of what we do is controlled by our subconscious, the feelings we have, the decisions we make, the way we live our life.
I think true enlightenment is the merging of our conscious and our subconscious. A perpetual awareness of what we do and why we do it, the real mastery of our live.
This is our purpose as humans, not mastery of the world, mastery of ourselves.
@mercurial, Of what reconciliation do you speak? are they conflictual? are they not one and the same? you are not part of the universe, the universe is a part of you. There are no schisms as self, SELF, lower self, higher self, no self. All these are mind labels. It is true that the mind traps you the mind will set you free. But the sooner you give up all knowledge of the slices of reality you see theorized everywhere the sooner you will see the one undifferentiated reality.
@thomaschong, I can only quote however I cannot remember the author I only know it is well commented and argued about in advaita :) “Nothing is real. Brahman is real. All is Brahman”
@mercurial, what you believe has nothing to do with reality. In reality there are no beliefs only what is, without opinions or mind labeled abstractions. You are not this nor that – NETI NETI. You have no definition of your “ultimate” self as you say because the mind cannot grasp it. Reality is outside the mind. Self is not experienced , SELF is the merging of the observer the object of observation and the act of observation. All is one, one is in All.
@mercurial, As I said your belief is irrelevant. I merely use words. Don’t fall for them. These are only tools to be discarded as soon as they consume their utility. Two dreamers speaking of each other’s dream in their own dream :))
@lesterxp, My mistake I was meant to write sub concious.
But just discussing the points you made, consciousness isn’t of the mind, the mind is of consciousness. Consciousness is what we truly are, and everything else is just illusion. The only thing that exists is consciousness. Unconsciousness is simply forgetting what we really are, forgetting that we are consciousness. That is to be asleep. To wake up isn’t to learn anything, it is simply just “remembering” what is already deep within you. Mind cannot lead to enlightenment, mind is what is actually separating everyone from enlightenment. The mind is only a tool, and it needs to be used in the right way.
“All wrong-doing arises because of mind. If mind is transformed can wrong-doing remain?”
“A mind at peace, a mind centered and not focused on harming others, is stronger than any physical force in the universe.”
Yes many people do achieve the state of no mind and can maintain 100 % consciousness. Mind isn’t consciousness, consciousness is what is AWARE of the mind. That’s where the word “awareness” comes from.
@thomaschong, I second you on this. It makes you wonder about whether there is such thing as free will: we have no control over our unconscious, and even limited control over our conscious minds; our actions dictated by past memories and conditioning (of which we also had no control); our bodies grow and then decay against our will. Hell, we didn’t even get to choose whether to be born in the first place! And then we say, ‘I built this’ and ‘I did that.’ I haven’t met a single person who can define the word ‘I.’
So it begs the question now… WHO is to have free will? Who am I? – the only question ever worth asking. Personally, until that question is answered, I will see that my only purpose is to find the answer. All else is secondary – finite and therefore unsatisfying.
“If you believe in an “ultimate” self you are a Brahman, if not you are Buddhist. So you said you can’t define yourself by a title, yet clearly you adhere to Brahman.”
It doesn’t matter what you believe. Belief is of words only – superficial and clumsy. Brahman, Truth, Enlightenment is all beyond the mind, words or thoughts. Buddhism may say there is no self and Advaita may say that self is Brahman, there is no difference. And since neither you nor I can say what Brahman is, I see no point in discussing the differences.
@mercurial, There is. The difference is that you are talking in concepts and theories, speaking after reading many sutras, you’ve decided that a certain one is right and now trying to spark some kind of argument. I’m saying that words might differ but the ultimate truth (whether you want to call it Brahman/Atman/Buddhism/Self/ or whatever) is one and the same. Under the illusion that your view (written out in words and ideas) is right, how can there be any bridge between us so we can better understand each other? I see your view as my view – irrelevant, neither right nor wrong while you’re ready to get caught up in words and prove me wrong. It’s like mistaking the finger for the moon: what you say and what I say will make no difference because the words are just tools to point to what is, they are not IT! Come off it brother. It would be like a religious war, where both sides ultimately have the same faith – God – except one side call him Allah and the other call him Jesus and therefore claim the other is wrong. Just stupid.
@aneesh, And that is how wars and suffering began between humans. All saying the same but not in the same words. And when form is more important than essence you get today’s society everyone here seems to have a problem with. We are all travelers on the path/way towards our very self. Knowledge of yourself is knowledge of the universe. “Every day I am learning more and more about less and less. I will eventually know everything about nothing”. Pointless dreamer arguments. Illusions talking to illusions. What will be achieved by arguing? :))) more arguments. There is no right and wrong. So why even bother?
Trying to mix all religions and beliefs in one big kettle doesn’t do justice to the different nuances. Allah is not the same as the Christian God. Atheists absolute of science is not the buddhist absolute of emptiness (and emptiness of emptiness).
@aneesh, What exactly do you mean when you say absolute truth?
@lesterxp, Even when there are no absolute right and wrongs, collective arguments aren’t pointless. We still have to debate whether it is right to put someone in jail, do nothing at all, or give him a lethal injection when he has murdered someone. To just brush it off as, oh well, it’s all illusion anyway doesn’t do justice to human beings. And btw. If everything is illusion, then it’s all we got, we better take care of it. (and, of course, thinking everything is illusional then thinking that is illusional too).