How to bring down governments

Profile photo of Christian Christian (@christian92) 5 years, 4 months ago

Hello there,

inspired by the thread “Britain to Storm ecuadorian embassy for Assange”, let’s discuss in this thread how we can bring down the people in charge. Many people believe they are powerless against them and I don’t think it’s easy either, so let’s just work out some ideas to get a change going.

August 17, 2012 at 12:30 am
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Nightowl (259) (@nightowl) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

If you truly want to take that power, stop giving them yours by acting as if they have it.
This war is won when you no longer think there is one.

The battle is for your mind. If your mind is engaged in conflict with “them”, “they” have won your mind, and you do not own it for yourself when you spend your life obsessed with “other”.

It’s just like money, in fact they stem from the same source. The populace fools itself into thinking that it is subjective to money, when in actuality it is their ongoing subscription to the illusion that gives money what power it seems to have over them.

The outside reflects the inside. As the world continues to fill with people with light within, the world will become a brighter place.in which darkness cannot thrive by very nature.

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Dan (890) (@danfontaine) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

I’m gonna play the role of Manimal and just say that all you have to do is stop participating and that’s all folks.

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Dan (890) (@danfontaine) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

A be da be da be da be that’s all FOLKS

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Christian (40) (@christian92) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

@nightowl, So you say we have to pull as many people into the light as possible? Informing them about what’s really going on?

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Dan (890) (@danfontaine) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

Madness is the venom most potent

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Peaceflower (71) (@cosmicplur) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

@nightowl, “The outside reflects the inside. As the world continues to fill with people with light within, the world will become a brighter place.in which darkness cannot thrive by very nature.”

Light cannot exist by its own nature alone. There must be dark otherwise there is no light. The key is finding equilibrium. In this case, with the “powers that be” . Be it in our minds or in the actual day to day our reality seems to be comprised of. Mind is def the starting place. I agree whole heartedly on that. I feel there will always be a “dark” force though, no matter where you slice it

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Anonymous (2,653) (@) 5 years, 4 months ago ago
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Daniel (3) (@eindal) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

@nightowl,

To say simply ‘stop believing in something to take away its power’ is ludicrous and simplistic. We have built a society, a world community, based on the agreed upon values of currency and the necessity of war.

A basic economics course can show you that the current economic system didn’t just happen because evil people got together and decided it was a good idea. We all subscribed to this illusion because it is efficient and it WORKS. Now, has it been adulterated to better serve a select few? No doubt. But everything we have today was built on very solid foundations. The problem comes with the realization that to fix something with faulty foundations we must tear them down and face the crashing of the safety canopy we call modern society right on our heads. That is, to remodel the system from its core has a cost that most, logically, aren’t willing to pay.

In my experience those who speak of revolution, anarchy and starting from zero or tearing down the system simply don’t understand the cost at which it comes.

“The only source of knowledge is experience.” -A.E.

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Nightowl (259) (@nightowl) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

@cosmicplur, there are no dark forces, only dim forces, and these forces are just that: not bright light.
Dark is not real, and you cannot have balance between reality and unreality, as there is no unreality. Indeed light is only knowable relative to no-light, but ‘darkness’ (a word for no-light) is not a thing unto itself which light is relative to.
You seem the type that might enjoy something like this http://www.highexistence.com/topic/emerge-from-the-chrysalis-of-dualistic-mindsetas-a-metamorphosed-intelligence/ My statement here is of #3

@eindal, sorry you don’t like my post bro, it’s ok. But your response to it indicates that you’ve drawn conclusions about my statement that I didn’t myself make.

@christian92, it’s not that I feel people should be informed about “what’s going on” because what is going on is a matter of individual perspective. To tell someone that the solution is being aware of the situations of “other” is to NOT give them what they need – themselves. That is what must be done to bring people to the light. People need to be reminded that the power of the world is their power, and that the power of those whom they feel oppressed by is their own power turned against them within their own minds, and their own minds alone. As I stated above, the problem is that people extrovert the problems to “other” instead of introverting them. Extroverting problems will never lead to one including oneself in a solution.

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St Emilion (2,991) (@manimal) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

@nightowl, @eindal, Good points, good points.

“He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.” – Benjamin Franklin

As I said earlier, the only reason some people have more power is because others give it to them. As long as people keep giving their power to people with questionable intentions, the people will get fucked over. But really, it’s just a deal that they agree to, so technically they’re not getting fucked over, they’re just getting what they signed up for.

And here’s the thing, society gives you many privileges in exchange for your servitude. Rights, welfare, and all that other stuff, the only reason these things exist is to woo you to their side. If you don’t want to be bossed around, you can’t have the reward, if you want the reward you gotta accept being a puppet. It’s that simple, you can’t have both because you haven’t earned them, it’s perfectly fair to be honest. No, none of these things are your birthright, that notion is preposterous, they are things you earn. And when the people offering it is a wicked scumbag, and you agree to the deal, so are you.

It’s like that classic satire comic strip where some politicians are standing on a plank over a canyon giving a speech, the plank is held in place by a bunch of commoners, they’re protesting and shit. That’s exactly how it works in reality, step off the damn plank and the fat cats fall into the canyon. Stay on the plank, and they stay. Push them off the plank, and somebody else takes their place.

The “bad guys” aren’t the problem, the masses are. “Fuck the system,” ” fuck society”… it should be “fuck the masses.” Oh and if you stay in that groupthink, dependent, system validating mindframe, standing on the plank so to speak, you ARE part of the blind masses no matter how much you deny it.

The “commoners” are the only reason the “elite” exist. The “bad guys” are nothing but a symptom of the retarded way people try to live.

Cheers
//Elion

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

I still don’t see how basically ignoring the government is going to make it disappear – without people whistle blowing and so forth I think the state of the US would digress rapidly, to things it started to do in the 20’s like sterilizing whole neighborhoods of certain ethnicity or conducting experiments on the unwilling or unknowing – still happens, but they are afraid of whistle blowers like Anonymous. I really don’t see a valid solution here yet.

Getting in a drum circle and saying I love you man is all well and good, but when you go back and pay your taxes you’re still participating. When you vote, you’re still agreeing. And when you don’t pay your taxes or you literally do anything physically to derail the system you are sent away.

So far my only solutions are this (aside from becoming a hermit / moving out of the country):
1. Do not take out loans. If you do take out loans (student loans) pay them off immediately. This dramatically decreases your involvement in both the government and the financial slavery system.

2. Do not ever use credit cards to buy shit you can’t afford, same as #1.

3. DO vote, but do not vote for republican / democrat. Really – they are identical so just try and shift the gears with your 1 wasted vote by going with green or something.

Ultimately the government is intimately intertwined with the economy. Hence why we have bailouts and so forth – so much money within the government is from dirty hands or illegitimate acts of commerce behind closed doors. If you take down big business you indirectly (or even directly) fuck the government.
So it follows:

4. Don’t rely on gasoline so much – buy a bike.

5. Buy organic food. Non-organic food comes from Monsanto and syngenta, which are deeply rooted in governmental regulation agencies like FDA and EPA.

#4 & 5 are examples but following them is important, but you have to do your research with things like #5, make sure organic companies aren’t owned by kellog or some shit like that.

The most influential people that SHAPE us into our sociological boundaries are teachers. #6 Become one. Give the youth the ability to question, allow them to see for themselves, but do not spread paranoia or what not. Give them the open mind that brings websites like this to light.

Finally; radical solutions.
#7. If you have a group, look up tire burning.
#8. Look into “non-explosive demolition”.

You can hope it goes away all you want.
You can believe that it is gone all you want.
But the reality is, you’re only helping by ignoring.

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Nightowl (259) (@nightowl) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

Nobody said to ignore things. It was said to stop giving it your mental power. That does not mean to shove it out of your awareness but to cease deluding yourself into being subjective to it. Neither does this mean to hope in the dark that what you don’t like goes away.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

As other posters have said, I agree the only way to bring down a government is to detach yourself as much as you can. You have to learn how to be self-sufficient, so that you don’t need any of their services, including the good ones like Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security. That’s why I feel that Occupy doesn’t work, because they are calling for all these big ideas that they really have no power to carry out and the drums and marches are alienating the very people they are trying to reach out to. Instead, I feel they could almost make a business (not to become the thing they are against, but to solve 2 problems at once – reducing dependency on a corrupt regime, and putting the people back to work since it seems a lot of Occupiers are without jobs) spreading self-sufficiency information and doing work to help get people started on self-sufficiency measures like providing their own electricity and stuff like that. It’s hard to not pay taxes though, because within a country it’s kind of like the old days where businesses and people living in a certain area had to pay the Mafia “protection” in order to live there. But disconnecting yourself from the grid seems to be make more sense than drum circles and marches, and certainly much more sense than violent revolution.

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

@nightowl, Your response is so vague I’m not getting anything from it.
All I’m getting from you is that we should stop thinking the government is powerful and it will stop. I actually used to believe this, too, but as soon as it came I realized this isn’t something that simple.

@theskafish, definitely agree with this. As much as a business can lead to separation it doesn’t have to.

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Guns

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Ray Butler (1,422)M (@trek79) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

As far as bringing down governments is concerned, the people don’t even have a solid plan. Corporations do and they have the jump, their plan is already in action. Don’t waste time looking for a way to bring down governments, we should be planning ahead to bring down that which usurps their power and authority. Plan to bring down that which will bring down governments, corporations.

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St Emilion (2,991) (@manimal) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

@trek79, Yes, the reason why governments and corporations have more success is because they know what they want and they go for it.
The masses don’t do that, some think they do but they really don’t.

And again, if you’re focused on bringing something down instead of bringing something up, you will lose. Maybe you’ll see small short term “victory” but that’s it. Whatever you took down is soon up and running again.

People don’t try to establish something, they just try to take something down. That means they can never get what they want, because they’re not creating it. Even if you destroy the current system, that won’t make your system come true. And if you take the system down and then try to create the new one, others will rebuild the old one, and they will be faster because they know what they’re doing. So you’re back at square one.

Focus on the path, not on the obstacles, and not on not falling off the path. Focus on what you want. That’s how you get somewhere.

Trying to take something down will not lead anywhere, because you’re focused on what you do not want.

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Anonymous (512) (@) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

“…let’s discuss in this thread how we can bring down the people in charge. ”

Um, what? This doesn’t even sound right…

There will be good leaders, and there will be not so good leaders. They won’t always be good, and they won’t always be bad. This is a true fact, so why do we hope to manipulate it?

Unless people are being physically harmed, or their freedom is in jeopardy, there’s little reason to overthrow or “change” a government that has been properly or rightfully elected. You’ll never agree fully with another person, so instead of trying to change their mind (or status), attempt to adopt a more accepting and understanding mindset. It’s the healthy way to go about these sorts of things.

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Ray Butler (1,422)M (@trek79) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

@manimal, Totally agreed there. Bring the government down? So what can rise in its place? Who knows but it may be worse. Definitely, if you raise something up, governments and corporations become obsolete, you salt the very ground they spring from. People will know that thing when they see it but until then, better the devil you know.

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O’Reilly (803) (@oreilly) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

Work hard and help others. Those two principles alone will go a long way. Commit to them.

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cheeky (76) (@cheeky) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

The best approach is going to be non violent if possible. Governments usually bring themselves down as the case we are seeing right now in America. We are creating a new world together around the obsolescence. Its an amazing time to be alive and connected to so many inspiring people, such as yourselves :)

Also, for these countries that hate us for true or uninformed reason. It is important that we extend what we can to these countries to demonstrate our compassion for their situation. When they see what love is possible in this world, they will take care of their own governmental situation.

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Jon Leo (78) (@d503) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, your steps seem very well thought out and effective. I’d also push not paying taxes. But everyone would have to do it at once in order to get away with it.

Some countries also have sales tax. This means consuming less or buying from places like flea markets where you can get around it. Gasoline is heavily taxed so the bicycle idea is great!

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

@manimal, Good point – if you bring this system down it already has the blueprints in place, a replacement would be easy. The thing is, if a revolution were large enough fear would prohibit this from occuring, but ruling with fear is in no way an acceptable approach, which is why I would steer clear of my “radical” approaches. This is actually the case in many middle eastern countries – a revolution takes place and in comes a shadow government, already trying out suits and ties before anyone knew what the hell just happened.

@cheeky, It is so difficult to come up with non-violent ways that work, but my above post outlines a few. I do agree that doing it without violence is the most evolved way of disestablishing something.

@mercurial, y so mad bre?

@d503, right I would have included not paying taxes but that does require a majority of the population to be in unison – something I don’t see happening.
Consume less! This is one of the largest grasps on the people. Consumerism. It is the opiate of the masses, the buyers high that gets you through the week, the upgrades that make your rat-race life seem livable, but it makes no sense. Buy less, happy more!

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cheeky (76) (@cheeky) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, when systems become obsolete, people will demand it and the problem will be solved out of necessity of a new solution. Forcing things is where effort is required and should be avoided if possible.

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St Emilion (2,991) (@manimal) 5 years, 4 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, Yeah, same goes for all revolutions thus far. Every “freedom fighter” or “man of the people” who led a battle against the leaders and succeeded, became a new leader just as bad. Sometimes even worse. They were just jealous and greedy.

@cheeky, Exactly, the current society game is all about keeping the subjects distracted while you’re “pulling the strings.” All it takes for people to snap out of it and stop being so distracted, is to stop distracting themselves. All it takes is to be less scattered, more centered, and less concerned with petty nonsense. Once that happens, it’s like the window of opportunity slams shut on the “elite’s” fingers. It’s like when you use powerful machine tools and there’s suddenly too much resistance, they blow up in your face and/or send you flying. It’s like a flock of horses escaping a farm and blindly trampling the farmer to death.

@d503, That’s a great idea. Remember how in school there were those “skip school days” where almost nobody showed up for school? Maybe you didn’t have them at your school, but they’re fairly common in most places it seems. Anyway I think it would be great if people organized a “cheat tax” day and other things like that. When everybody, or at least a whole lot of people, is doing it the system can’t stop it. Sure they can punish a few people, but someone who’d let that discourage them deserves no freedom.

There’s no need for any offense, just firmly standing our ground is enough. But not many do that these days.

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