What can be said of the attempted "Civilization" of the most uncivilized practice of man?
Geneva convention, "ethics of war" (oxymoron), treaties, medals, drill, pageantry, pomp and circumstance, military balls, war memorials, the grandeur and money spent in trying to make war seem "glorious", beyond an inevitable and unavoidable evil, but actually POSITIVE, seeking war, hoping for it, WANTING TO KILL PEOPLE.
What the fuck is wrong with the human race? How did we get this way? Why are we this way?
And why do we try to dress it up? Why the fancy uniforms and "discipline", why do we seem to avoid the fact that war is the simple act of murder and nothing else.
I fucking hate humans sometimes.
War! HUH! WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR!? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! WAAAAA WAAR!
no but seriously, the military is meant to protect the country, it is a sign of authority and respect, the biggest and best military out there is ours.
but now adays war is used to control, why do people want to control, so they can take resources. it’s completely fucking wrong what america is doing. trying to police the world, like the best quote i ever saw about the iraq ahganistan war is that we are spending trillions of dollars to blow up bridges and then build them back up. why the fuck did we INVADE another country?? i’ll tell you why, because the one of the richest men in the world named Rockerfeller, owns the oil companies. who pays for the campaign to get a president elected? the companies.
Ever heard of the crusades? that was the pope sending out his men to kill the first born child of families and the sons. alexander the great, wanted to conquer the world. everyone has their reason for war. but every man wants to fight.
You see war as horrific, the Vikings saw war as glorious, the Japanese saw battle as honourable – all this tells us is that it’s a matter of perspective. Chopping up your fellow man and getting chopped up in return can be a passtime depending on where/when you live.
With the freedom of choice comes the inevitability of dispute.
That’s because the Irish are used to it.
“In the first quarter century of Viking attacks only twenty-six plunderings by Vikings are recorded in the Irish Annals. During the same time eighty-seven raids by the Irish themselves are recorded. An average of one Viking raid a year can have caused no great disorder or distress in Irish society. Attacks on Irish monasteries were common before the Viking Age. The burning of churches also was an integral part of Irish warfare. “
Oh gosh, I can’t help but put my two cents in here. The American military at this moment is probably the farthest thing from a murder tool. Our ROE’s are absolutely absurd. A man with a knife has to be within 8 feet of me before I can shoot him.. what if he’s running his ass off? Can you imagine the adrenaline pumping through your system? I hope I get his ass before I get got. That’s the mentality of an American soldier. It isn’t “where’s the taliban? I feel like killin’!!” …this is such an unfortunate misconception. Also, we all know World Peace is a dream that resides in the small brains of Miss America. That shit is not gonna happen, no time no where… not with human beings ruling the world. Jesse G. S., I couldn’t agree more. America has the absolute best military on earth and we like it that way. It’s like we’re saying… “Come at me, bro!!”
just a few words from some OG’s:
“If man does find the solution for world peace it will be the most revolutionary reversal of his record we have ever known.” -George C. Marshall
^comin’ from a Nobel Peace Prize winner
“Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.” -Thomas Jefferson
^see how he said FREE state? that’s kinda cute. He must have meant that…
War used to be about honour and hand to hand combat and seeing who was the bigger and better man, just look at the samurai’s. They still fought to claim territory and such but there was great respect amongst them. The introduction of technology has made war perverse, to the point where you will never see the face of the man that you killed.
You quote thomas jefferson about the citizens of ancient civilizations being military states, but even he was wrong in doing in doing so because they were VERY well versed in defence theories, combat practices, philosophy…basically educated and then given a weapon, whereas the case with the USA is that “hey, youre 18” “go kill shit”
correct me if i’m wrong.
What I see is a “Generation Kill” mentality.
Pre-jaded kids buy into the Call of Duty aesthetic, have no idea what they’re getting themselves into and sign their souls off for 4 or 5 years, end up getting prison mentality where they don’t understand anything else, or they drink the fucking kool-aid and become machines.
Tell me if I’m wrong.
“The American military at this moment is probably the farthest thing from a murder tool”
You can’t lie to me, I’ve seen Kevin Dillon in Platoon!
The problem with war is that the people who fight in it are under the delusion that peace is the end result. If peace and non-violence is the goal of every sane human, why have we been fighting for 5000 record years? I say fight with no goal of peace in mind. Fight instead for the goals of personal honor. Why do you think the US is lost in Vietnam and is losing in Afghanistan? Because our “enemies” there want to win more than we do. They think nothing of giving their lives for their cause because the alternative for them is worse.
And what would be the result of nonstop war? Rules. If war is fought without an end in site; If only those who want to fight do so; Then eventually there will come a consensus about what is proper and what is not. We’ve seen this happen. Militaristic societies like the Japanese and the Romans had very well defined rules for war, and while the Roman’s made the mistake of assuming their military machine would survive the rigors of expansion, the Japanese are the model of peaceful war.
Perhaps you have heard of the famous rivalry between Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin, two of the greatest military minds of history. But at one point, Takeda’s fief was cut off from the sea, meaning he had no more access to the vital resource of salt. But just when all seemed lost, a caravan from Uesugi’s camp appeared carrying several tons of salt. Takeda received this gift, and when one of Uesugi’s generals asked why he did so instead of starving him to death, Uesugi’s response was “Battle are to be fought with swords and spears, not rice and salt.
I say it is those who speak of peace that are dooming this world to bloodshed. Convinced that they know what is wrong with the human soul, they encourage the wars they are trying to stop. If the rules of war were allowed to evolve, then eventually battles would be decided with a game of rock-paper-scissors.
Desperation and fear. It’s in our genes so it’s part of reality.
I don’t know a single person in the military who thinks peace is the end result. They, like myself, believe the end result is LESS war. We kick everyones asses until they get the point… which is, of course.. Don’t Fuck With Us.
Brandon, the people who WANT to kill, are almost never in a position to actually kill… and when it came down to it they probably would not have the balls. I’m just a maintainer, but I work on Combat Search and Rescue helicopters so the people I work with… THEY kill. And they don’t revel in the murderous “call of duty” of it. They take it quite seriously and always use minimum force necessary. But you know… if some asshole is shootin’ up our helicopter with his AK-47 while they try to pick up a harmed soldier (or harmed enemy for that matter, cuz the American military saves their asses too) our aircrew will sure as shit put a .50 cal bullet through their dome piece. I’m just reiterating the “get him before you get got” mentality I talked about earlier.
Don’t judge all military by a perception you got from a TV show. There are people like that one guy who want to kill someone… but like I said, if they ever got the chance, reality would hit them. The point of the military is to keep war “over there”. Because there will always be war… it’s the calling of mankind. We kick the most ass. That’s why North Korea hasn’t made a move. Our Korean and Japanese bases do “fake deployment” exercises on the regular which is terribly annoying and unfortunate but it’s smart. We’re showing them in their faces how quickly we can ready ourselves if they want to play that game. American military kicks ass… support it.
@erin, that is very true and I , myself am not a part of our military but I totally see where you’re coming from. most people do have these “unsheddable” misconceptions about every soldier in deployment because of how they are portrayed in media, and it is sad because, knowing many people who are either currently in service or just got back….it just isn’t true
It seems everyone here has a very skewed view of war. War is the easiest way to enforce diplomacy. The US military for example in southeast Asia, maintains a hegemony over the waters. As such trade may flow freely throughout such waters. The US dominance in the territory has made it so the countries in the area don’t go to war fighting each other.
South East Asia is a great example because many of the countries there welcome the US presence, rather than a more aggressive and assertive country like China patrolling their waters.
Its easy to criticize modern war fighting with lofty ideals, but often times you have to look at the details of why their fought to truly understand how a human could take the life of another.
Ahh but Chris you are referring to the extremely large picture… which, I assure you, is not in the mind of any soldier before he pulls the trigger. A man kills another man before he gets killed. Our political “fathers” put us in situations where we have to think that way… therefore reaching their goals. But it is not WHY a man kills another man (or woman, for that matter) in one’s heart of hearts. Which is the point of this thread, I believe. Perhaps I’m wrong.
The soldier can’t think that way, that isn’t how war is structured. For a military to be functional it has to work as a single organism.
The reason a man kills another man is because he’s a small piece of that organism. Once he joins this great organism he must serve it, or he will fail and perhaps lose his life.
The soldier must trust that those above him are looking out for his best interest and also serve his beliefs and his morals.
If they do not, he should not have joined in the first place.
You, my dear, refuse to take human emotion into account. It’s okay though, I can see that is simply the person that you are and to each his own. However, I think you are skewing the causative properties here :-) …a man does not pull a trigger BECAUSE he is a piece of that organism… I believe it would be, a man kills another man AND he is a piece of that organism, therefore causing a change to the grand picture. But as a human being, standing in the dirt in afghanistan, he pulls the trigger to save his own, or his buddies, life.
I will tell you right now, I am not so naive as to think the president or congress give two shits about me as an individual or my beliefs. I joined the military because I absolutely love America with my entire soul… and I want to contribute to it’s great power… and therefore protect it. (and before you can say anything about that… let me just say this as well… I believe in the oath that I swore. And I will fight against our own government before I follow any orders given to me that are not a part of that oath. i.e. detaining innocent Americans, enforcing gun control. & there are plenty of military who agree with this. Oathkeepers.org) We are not naive.. we are aware. We are also necessary (if for nothing else but a showboat of power)
@Erin I met a fair share of guys during my enlistment who just wanted to stack bodies, get their count up, “kill, kill, kill em all,” however you want to put it. They got their chance when we went to Afghanistan too, as long as they follow ROE that’s fine, whatever brings em home safe IMO. But I truly believe that they will regret that mindset at some point in their life. I don’t know what my grandfather’s mindset going into Normandy was but I know he really struggled, at the end of his life, with the things he had done.
As for your other posts, perfectly put, couldn’t have said it any better myself. Thank you!