Vegan/Vegetarian Diet and Spirituality

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I went vegan 7 months ago and since becoming vegan I noticed a huge change in my spirituality. This video really breaks it down and explains that animals are five sense beings and that we should be eating "the lowest sense beings" and only for survival. Has anyone else noticed this? I also noticed that my moods changed quite a bit and I believe it is because I am not longer eat cortisol (The stress hormone) which animals produce while in the slaughter houses.

July 12, 2011 at 6:15 pm
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Ellie (1,357)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 6 years, 5 months ago ago

I made the transition to vegetarianism a couple months ago. I have eaten shrimp a few times though so I guess I’d technically be a pescatarian? My reason is how healthy shrimp is and the fact that I just find it hard to think of them as “animals” in the same vein as cows, pigs, or even chickens. I’m working on making the full transition though, and have definitely noticed a difference in my energy since giving up processed crap and most meat. I can’t watch this video right now because I’m on my work computer and have no volume but I will definitely check it out later today! I’m interested.

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Ka (307) (@kaciula) 6 years, 5 months ago ago

I’d like to give my input. I am an omnivore and my health is excellent. Also, when I “discovered” spirituality I wondered why spiritual people are vegetarians/vegans and kept asking them. No response satisfied me because it made no sense to me. And it still doesn’t make sense to me. The guy in the video shares some of his beliefs and they are purely beliefs that come from his own conditioning. I am left to believe him purely on faith (which I won’t do).

Being an omnivore doesn’t mean I eat crap. The meat I eat comes from animals raised by farmers I know, I don’t eat processed junk, I eat local vegetables and fruits and so on. The fact that you feel much better since starting veganism can be explained in multiple ways: 1. you no longer eat processed foods (because they contain meat) and as a consequence you don’t ingest various preservatives and chemicals 2. being spiritual, meditating improves your mood independent of other factors 3. the act of truly believing that veganism is healthy makes your body healthier and/or focuses your attention more on the healthy parts of your life.

You also have your own explanation regarding cortisol but if you make this scientific statement you should read some scientific studies regarding what exactly happens when an animal is killed to see if it’s true or not.

Anyway, these are my 2 cents.

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Anonymous (2) (@) 6 years, 5 months ago ago

Ka,

I would express the same on my table. Healthy, local, conscious eating can be done responsibly with most any diet. I understand what I’m eating when I bite into the lettuce, tomato, or beef.

Also, I like to attach a certain personality to my food, along the lines of “you are what you eat” (so true). When I eat meat, I get nice and agressive. So, I use it when I need it.

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Ellie (1,357)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 6 years, 5 months ago ago

Ka, meat and crap are not synonymous in my book, particularly if the meat is coming from local farmers. I respect that some people prefer to eat meat, especially if they are conscious of where that meat is coming from. Props for being one of those people :)

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Sally (2) (@sallyp) 6 years, 4 months ago ago

I agree with the omnivore posters–eating a healthier diet, no matter what natural, whole foods that may be, is ultimately good for the mind, body and soul. I had been a vegetarian for 10 years before going back to eating meat and I must say that I feel a whole lot better now. Being a vegetarian or vegan doesn’t necessarily mean that one is more spiritually evolved either (I’ve known many troubled and non-spiritual vegetarians and vegans over my lifetime too). And if you look at some very spiritual people, both past and present (including the Dalai Lama), they were/are not necessarily vegetarians. The “spiritual” feeling that some people experience on a new diet probably has a lot to do with the conscious effort toward better lifestyle choices, which can offer anyone a psychological boost. And be wary–some longtime vegetarians who believe that they are beginning to feel more spiritual are actually suffering from B vitamin deficiencies, which can make anyone feel lightheaded!

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Jam N (0) (@jamscape) 6 years, 2 months ago ago

I was vegan for seven years, vegetarian for about four years. During that time I didn’t feel spiritual at all (deeply skeptical atheist here), but I did come to notice an emptiness where I am pretty sure spirituality should be. That was painful and still is. I also had a heightened sense of sympathy that’s now back to normal levels, which is good because I don’t like it when even a basket of puppies can make me cry.

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St Emilion (2,991) (@manimal) 6 years, 2 months ago ago

No matter if you eat meat or not, living beings died for your eating. A cow isn’t more alive than cabbage, they’re both living beings. And if you didn’t eat, you would die and be eaten by something else. The world doesn’t care who dies and who survives, it’s your own decision if you want to eat or be eaten. Every living being in this world survives by eating other living beings. Ignoring that is not spiritual, it’s the opposite. Making differences between life and life isn’t enlightened, it’s ego driven irrationality.

One of the main reasons many vegetarians and vegans feel lighter and more conscious is because their bodies aren’t getting enough nutrition, the body’s reaction to this is to focus on awareness in order to find food. It’s the fight or flight response. If you really want that “spiritual conciousness,” try fasting for a few days straight, this isn’t more than temporary awareness, and it’s slowly killing you. The body’s telling you “more fat, more micronutrients” and you ignore its distress call. Year after year.

Sure, I have lots of empathy for animals but I still eat them. It’s part of life to die and be eaten. And I make sure the animals I eat were free and treated with respect, and killed without pain. The same goes for plants.

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Zayn (17) (@Apollo777) 2 years, 11 months ago ago

I’m not sure if you’ve answered this already (considering how extensive this thread is), but what about the vibration/ energy of the dead animal corpse that you consume in comparison to fruits and vegetables? Seems to me that the plant based diet is obviously the lesser of the two evils and considering how much nutritionally dense foods is out there, I feel the elimination of dead animal from my diet is not a huge sacrifice.

Have you also considered that dead animal meat is highly acidic to the human body, making it produce mucus which contributes generously to diseases in the body? (Some of which fall under cancer, osteoporosis, and diabetes) Murdering a being with a beating heart, a desire to live, and central nervous system = respectful and painless? To me that simply doesn’t resonate. Sure plants, minerals, etc. have their own consciousness, like anything else, but if I go outside to grab an orange the tree will not attempt to run/ hide from me or fight desperately for its life.

I’ve personally made my transition to a plant based diet in August and although I’m open to it possibly being the placebo affect, I am certain I feel healthier and clearer of mind. At the very least, I find comfort in knowing my diet is not contributing to the immense suffering this planet is and has undergone.

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St Emilion (2,991) (@manimal) 2 years, 11 months ago ago

Meat does not cause acidification. That’s one of those old myths that some vegan pulled out of his ass, and countless experts have debunked the bullshit.

As for health issues caused by meat, everything seems to indicate that it’s bad meat that causes this harm, not meat itself. Because the meat they sell in grocery stores comes from sickly, genetically corrupted animals that are kept in terrible and unnatural conditions, and force fed things that are not in their natural diet, as well as pumped full of steroids and medicine.

Real meat is good for you. But there’s no way to mass-produce it, there’s no way to sustainably mass-produce anything that isn’t crappy. This is not limited to food, it includes everything.
I only eat meat from beings that lived freely with integrity and that were felled in humane ways with respect and honour.

Plants have central nervous systems, not like ours but it’s still there. They don’t have hearts, but they have an equivalent system. They have a wish to live, for they are alive.
Minerals are not alive, they are not organic.

A tree won’t fight back when you try to pick its fruit? Well, that’s because it’s A FUCKING TREE, it CAN’T MOVE.
By your logic, it would be perfectly fine for me to go pick the ears off handicapped person. “Hey, he didn’t try to run or hide, he didn’t fight. I sleep well knowing that my ear-based diet isn’t contributing to the suffering of this world.”

Know what you are? A self-righteous hypocrite who’s using irrational, ideological propaganda to justify your bullshit.

The irony here is that you, too, will one day feed the plants.
“Eh, it’s just a human. It doesn’t photosynthesize, can’t even grow petals, let’s slaughter and devour it.”

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Zayn (17) (@Apollo777) 2 years, 11 months ago ago

“Know what you are? A self-righteous hypocrite who’s using irrational, ideological propaganda to justify your bullshit.”

Lol woah.. regardless if you are correct or simply projecting with that statement, what is with the aggressiveness? My intent was to have a civil, intelligent discussion with you. Not label each other and turn into keyboard warriors. Please don’t take my opposing views personally.

“Meat does not cause acidification. That’s one of those old myths that some vegan pulled out of his ass, and countless experts have debunked the bullshit.”

Debunked? How so, exactly? Aside from countless, paid “experts” propagating the REAL bullshit of the meat/ dairy industry you’re one of the few people I’ve encountered who firmly hold these views. I’m sorry, but your passionately written response is not enough to prove me wrong on this and I am actually open to learning from you. Can you please point out where I can read up on where you are getting your information?

Last time I checked the human body absorbs much more protein from a head of broccoli then from a dead bird. Common sense suggests that our features (looooong intestines, grinding teeth, etc.) resemble that of a herbivore far greater than that of a carnivorous predator.

Also, of ALL animals in the kingdom of creation, we resemble apes the most. What do gorillas/ bonobos eat all day? YOU GUESSED IT! They munch on things like celery and fruits all day :)

“I only eat meat from beings that lived freely with integrity and that were felled in humane ways with respect and honor.”

I mean, sure, you have an argument that all things are living to a certain degree, but c’mon dude… really? You’re gonna sit there and argue that eating a few almonds or blueberries is just as bad as slaughtering a baby calf and eating its flesh? You have a heart, look inside! Does that FEEL righteous to you? Regardless if you think you’re some kind of tiger and eat gnarly stallions that galloped freely in the wind, it STILL has a central nervous system, UNLIKE plants and have a far more intense resistance to dying than vegetables, fruits, nuts, etc. THAT is my point. Most sane humans/ animals will experience an enormous amount of fear and suffering upon being murdered and considering the fact that everything is energy and I can obtain just as much nutrients (if not more from a plant based diet) why on earth would I choose to put those kind of vibrations in my body? Idk about you, but I am someone who has this thing called COMPASSION and aside from optimal health I am also attempting to cause the least amount of suffering on this planet.

Once again, when you weigh the scales the plant based diet is by far the lesser of two evils and I personally believe we can evolve to even over come our need to take life from ANYTHING outside of ourselves, but thats a whole other discussion.

Until then I’ll take a banana over eating my cat/ dog any day and I guess people like Leonardo Da Vinci, Plato, Albert Einstein, Nikola Tesla, Gandhi were all self-righteous hypocrites too, who used irrational, ideological propaganda to justify their bullshit ;)

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St Emilion (2,991) (@manimal) 2 years, 11 months ago ago

You think that’s aggressive? You must be amurrican then. That explains some things.

Actually, most of the paid “experts” are on the other side… ADVOCATING vegetarianism. Because it’s much cheaper to produce vegetarian food, and it can be sold at a higher price. Vegetarian food is a much more profitable market than meat.
Meat doesn’t need advertising, because people have always eaten it and know it’s good.

One of the most common tricks of charlatans and propagandists… is accusing their competition of being charlatans and propagandists. Sellouts always accuse their rivals of being sellouts.

If you’ve met more anti-meat people than regular meat eaters, you must live in some kind of gated hipster community.

If you think there’s more protein in a head of broccoli than in a bird, I guess you’re talking about hummingbirds. Where do you get a silly idea like that?
Additionally, protein is not one nutrient but many. You don’t get all of them from plants, you get an incomplete and unbalanced protein intake unless you eat animal products.

The intestine flourish is a classic example of anti-scientific NAVELGAZING. Our intestine resembles that of other OMNIvores. And if you actually look at how other animals’ innards look, you’d see that there are different kinds of herbivore, carnivore and omnivore structures.

We are not that closely related to gorillas. Wild bonobos are omnivores, just like chimpanzees. Chimps (our ACTUAL closest relative species) are notorious for eating other monkeys, and also cannibalizing on each other.
And in case you didn’t know, a lot of herbivores eat meat when they get the chance. Some, like the Reindeer, actually need to eat meat sometimes. A lot of, but not all, carnivores can eat vegetables and sometimes even need it.

We, however, are omnivores. We need to eat plants and animals.

Not all animal products require killing or suffering. The main part of my diet is eggs. Duck menstruation haha. Roe is also fine. Milk doesn’t hurt, actually if nobody milked that goat she’d be in pain.
I don’t eat baby cows, you’re just prejudiced. I couldn’t eat something that isn’t grown up, that feels wrong to me. And besides, a fully grown animal has a lot of nutrition on it. An elk lasts for months. Eating it takes one life, whereas if I’d eat small animals or plants that would take many lives for one meal.

All living things are equal to me. Acting like it’s ok to kill plants but not animals, well that’s really just discrimination and bigotry. Plants do feel something that resembles pain and fear, yknow. Even if they didn’t, that’d be a shitty argument for killing them.

Life feeds on life, which feeds on life, which feeds on life… always has, always will. For something to live, something else has to die. You and I will one day be the food of something else.

As for those people you used as a shield…
Da Vinci, while a great genius, was absolutely a self-righteous hypocrite.

Plato, well there’s no evidence of what he ate, or if he even ate anything at all… I think you need to read up on who Plato actually “was” before you say anything about his person haha. Furthermore, Plato said that all ideologies are wrong. You’re preaching ideologies, and acting like you have Plato on your side. Bravo!

Einstein… well can you honestly say that there was anything healthy about that man? Yeah he was a genius -of physics- but ignorant to biology and a prime example of an unhealthy human.
Plus, a scientist who claims imagination is more real that science is per definition a hypocrite… and he worked with propagandists.

Tesla… ah what a great man. But absolutely insane. He was outspokenly self-destructive, would you take health advice or moral advice from someone like that? I think not.

Gandhi… I think it’s hilarious that you bring him up like this. Yes, he was extremely self-righteous and a huge hypocrite… and the one thing he is known for is ideological propaganda.

If you’d examine your own rationalisations, you’d find that they don’t make sense. Why do you insist on fooling yourself?

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Zayn (17) (@Apollo777) 2 years, 11 months ago ago

For the record I don’t support what the people who call themselves “the government” of “my country” do.. but what do illusionary lines have anything to do with this matter? This is HIGH existence, you judging me based on where my vessel may stand on the planet says a lot.. then you have the nerve to label me as prejudiced? Interesting. You’re from Sweden, though, so you’re from a much colder climate. I can imagine thats not an ideal environment for growing food. That explains a lot to me, as well.

Vegan/ vegetarianism is cheaper and healthier for the planet? Thanks for helping me prove my point.

I don’t know man, just so yah know if you walk up to anyone, anywhere on the planet and say “You’re a self-righteous hypocrite who’s using irrational, ideological propaganda to justify your bullshit.”, (especially if you’re exhibiting levels of hypocrisy and ideological beliefs, as well) chances are you better know some form of self defense lol. In many, less intellectually progressive areas of the planet (where many animals just happen to be slain for “food”) you can even be killed for telling the wrong person that. Just some food for thought ;)

If you wish to hold on to culturally based belief systems to justify your
mistreatment of animals, then thats one thing, but this topic is about a dietary alignment with SPIRITUALITY. What is that? It is the basic understanding of the oneness and connection EVERYTHING shares. Not aggressiveness or exploitation of others, INCLUDING animals.

Eating corpses is wrong on almost every level that you want to look at it. For one you’re absorbing the fear/ death energy of the killed animal, keeping you in a lower, animalistic vibration, thus damaging your energetic body. I already explained to you what happens on the physical realm. Hence the reason you feel lethargic, sluggish, and mucus filled after a big, free ranged, medium rare, prime rib steak and feeling, a vibrant, clean sense of energy after eating a pineapple. Fruits/ vegetables hold a much higher energy for your body. Like I said, you are correct in that all living organisms share an “essence” of life within them, but ONCE AGAIN, it is silly to compare the consciousness of a horse (WITH A CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM), with that of lets say kale or brown rice. To give you another analogy as to where I’m coming from I would much rather someone trim my nails/ hair (that grows, like the grass and vegetation on this planet) as opposed to having someone cutting my finger off.. I’d imagine that would hurt a hell of a lot more!

This planet is alive. We are all organisms, living on a giant organism. It feels, just like we do, with its own, feeling nervous system. It cleanses itself energetically with volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornados, etc. (Think “As above, so below. As within so without.”) With that being said, if we cannot learn to respect each other, nature, and treat animals with respect, how will we evolve from barbarism in our society? Sure people have been eating animals since the invention of fire, but we’ve also been doing a lot of other stupid shit for a while too.. like war, religion, etc. Just reflect at the way the world is and our attitude towards animals (Killing dolphins, zoo captivity, baby seal slaughtering, using animals for leather/ fur, animal experimentations, etc.) No wonder we are so shitty and aggressive towards each other. We want a positive progression, not stagnation as a collective. How can we even attempt to progress towards an intelligent, peaceful, harmonious society if we cannot let go old ways of thinking?

You justifying your violence towards animals because you’ve seen a small percentage of them with the same behavior (carnivorous creatures take up only a minimal percentage on the planet btw) makes me question why you would not eat a baby calf? Does a wolf make those kind of ideological judgments when rolling deep with his homies and spots a baby buffalo? They don’t care if its laid foot on this planet for 90 seconds or 90 days. Food is food. If you’re gonna go omnivore/ carnivore (whatever term you fancy for eating corpses) then put your money where your mouth is and go full nature! **** morals! Whats with the pussy footing? For someone preaching against ideologies and for science/ reality based living you confuse me, in that sense. (I wonder if you eat the meat raw too?)

I meant the human body would ABSORB more protein from broccoli as opposed to a dead bird. As for any other argument you will probably attempt to contrive, more than likely regarding nutrition, for example: fats & protein. There are avocados, walnuts, hemp seeds, chia seeds, raw cacao, lucuma powder, goji berries, and an endless variety of foods/ herbs that I can go on FOREVER listing. You certainly won’t starve, and for everyone of your body’s needs nature’s got your back. You will also live a long and healthy, cruel free life as most vegans/ vegetarians do. I personally do not buy into the whole “PROTEIN, PROTEIN, YOU NEED PROTEIN” craze everyone is raving about. If it was so vital I would probably be dead by now or at the very least weak and sickly, which is definitly not the case.

As for your judgments of those legendary men.. All I can say is you are of course entitled to your opinions. To pretty much knock each and every one of them for the sake of winning an argument, I hope you have a grand ace up your sleeve for humanity. Otherwise, I would call YOU the self righteous one lol.

Although we don’t see eye to eye on dietary preference I can appreciate your intelligence and wish you well.

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Zayn (17) (@Apollo777) 2 years, 11 months ago ago

For the record I don’t support what the people who call themselves “the government” of “my country” do.. but what do illusionary lines have anything to do with this matter? This is HIGH existence, you judging me based on where my vessel may stand on the planet says a lot.. then you have the nerve to label me as prejudiced? Interesting. You’re from Sweden, though, so you’re from a much colder climate. I can imagine thats not an ideal environment for growing food. That explains a lot to me, as well.

Vegan/ vegetarianism is cheaper and healthier for the planet? Thanks for helping me prove my point.

I don’t know man, just so yah know if you walk up to anyone, anywhere on the planet and say “You’re a self-righteous hypocrite who’s using irrational, ideological propaganda to justify your bullshit.”, (especially if you’re exhibiting levels of hypocrisy and ideological beliefs, as well) chances are you better know some form of self defense lol. In many, less intellectually progressive areas of the planet (where many animals just happen to be slain for “food”) you can even be killed for telling the wrong person that. Just some food for thought ;)

If you wish to hold on to culturally based belief systems to justify your
mistreatment of animals, then thats one thing, but this topic is about a dietary alignment with SPIRITUALITY. What is that? It is the basic understanding of the oneness and connection EVERYTHING shares. Not aggressiveness or exploitation of others, INCLUDING animals.

Eating corpses is wrong on almost every level that you want to look at it. For one you’re absorbing the fear/ death energy of the killed animal, keeping you in a lower, animalistic vibration, thus damaging your energetic body. I already explained to you what happens on the physical realm. Hence the reason you feel lethargic, sluggish, and mucus filled after a big, free ranged, medium rare, prime rib steak and feeling, a vibrant, clean sense of energy after eating a pineapple. Fruits/ vegetables hold a much higher energy for your body. Like I said, you are correct in that all living organisms share an “essence” of life within them, but ONCE AGAIN, it is silly to compare the consciousness of a horse (WITH A CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM), with that of lets say kale or brown rice. To give you another analogy as to where I’m coming from I would much rather someone trim my nails/ hair (that grows, like the grass and vegetation on this planet) as opposed to having someone cutting my finger off.. I’d imagine that would hurt a hell of a lot more!

This planet is alive. We are all organisms, living on a giant organism. It feels, just like we do, with its own, feeling nervous system. It cleanses itself energetically with volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornados, etc. (Think “As above, so below. As within so without.”) With that being said, if we cannot learn to respect each other, nature, and treat animals with respect, how will we evolve from barbarism in our society? Sure people have been eating animals since the invention of fire, but we’ve also been doing a lot of other stupid shit for a while too.. like war, religion, etc. Just reflect at the way the world is and our attitude towards animals (Killing dolphins, zoo captivity, baby seal slaughtering, using animals for leather/ fur, animal experimentations, etc.) No wonder we are so shitty and aggressive towards each other. We want a positive progression, not stagnation as a collective. How can we even attempt to progress towards an intelligent, peaceful, harmonious society if we cannot let go old ways of thinking?

You justifying your violence towards animals because you’ve seen a small percentage of them with the same behavior (carnivorous creatures take up only a minimal percentage on the planet btw) makes me question why you would not eat a baby calf? Does a wolf make those kind of ideological judgments when rolling deep with his homies and spots a baby buffalo? They don’t care if its laid foot on this planet for 90 seconds or 90 days. Food is food. If you’re gonna go omnivore/ carnivore (whatever term you fancy for eating corpses) then put your money where your mouth is and go full nature! **** morals! Whats with the pussy footing? For someone preaching against ideologies and for science/ reality based living you confuse me, in that sense. (I wonder if you eat the meat raw too?)

I meant the human body would ABSORB more protein from broccoli as opposed to a dead bird. As for any other argument you will probably attempt to contrive, more than likely regarding nutrition, for example: fats & protein. There are avocados, walnuts, hemp seeds, chia seeds, raw cacao, lucuma powder, goji berries, and an endless variety of foods/ herbs that I can go on FOREVER listing. You certainly won’t starve, and for everyone of your body’s needs nature’s got your back. You will also live a long and healthy, cruel free life as most vegans/ vegetarians do. I personally do not buy into the whole “PROTEIN, PROTEIN, YOU NEED PROTEIN” craze everyone is raving about. If it was so vital I would probably be dead by now or at the very least weak and sickly, which is definitly not the case.

As for your judgments of those legendary men.. All I can say is you are of course entitled to your opinions. To pretty much knock each and every one of them for the sake of winning an argument, I hope you have a grand ace up your sleeve for humanity. Otherwise, I would call YOU the self righteous one lol.

Although we don’t see eye to eye on dietary preference I can appreciate your intelligence and wish you well.

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KrNel (0) (@krnel) 4 years, 9 months ago ago

It will evolve consciousness, care, compassion and love. It is the future for peace. Learn the spiritual side of it, and you will grow.

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“A Cow is no more alive than a cabbage.” Perhaps not, but it is obviously more self aware and capable of suffering.
Here are the 4 very rational (in my view un-arguable) reasons to be vegetarian.
1. Eating meat causes enormous suffering to animals. Plants do not suffer in the same way. The principle here is causing the least harm – Ahimsa in sanskrit.
2. A balanced vegetarian diet is much more healthy. The research on this is voluminous and conclusive, to the point of convincing insurance companies and governments.
3. Meat production is a hugely inefficient use of arable land, and is a major contributor to global warming and pollution of the water table. It is highly un-ecological.
4. If you are a spiritual aspirant, a vegetarian diet will help you along the path of conscious evolution. Eating the flesh of animals reinforces animal instincts including fear, aggression and lust, which run counter to spiritual practice. And it is easier to meditate with a clean conscience.

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Ghostlight (38) (@imtheghostlight) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@manimal, I have to disagree with your malnutrition theory. I’ve been vegetarian for quite some time and I always feel lighter and more conscious – and this is most definitely not because of poor nutrition. My wife is a registered dietician – you can be much more healthy by not eating meat. Basically what you’re doing when you’re eating meat is letting another animal take in all your nutrients, filter them down, and you’re eating that animal’s flesh. you’re getting a fraction of what you could be getting by just eating the vegetables yourself. All you have to watch is the certain nutrients you can’t get from many plants like omega 3, 6, and 9, B12, and that’s it. Those are the only things that you get from meat that you can’t from most plants – most being the key word choice, you can still find them in plants. So basically, if you’re eating meat, the only reason is personal preference. Meat also causes exponential amounts of health issues – osteoporosis (to fully digest meat, your body has to take extreme measures by breaking down calcium phosphate in the bone), high blood pressure, heart disease, colon cancer… the list goes on.

I’m not trying to sound like you should change your life or anything, just want you to fairly see the other side of things.

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Ghostlight (38) (@imtheghostlight) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@manimal – just one more thing you may find interesting – with so many people starving in the world, we still see meat as a must in first world countries – to the point where we are feeding our livestock a very, very large chunk of our agricultural grains and vegetables. Don’t quote me on it, but if I remember right, 1/3 of all our harvest goes to feed those animals we intend to kill and eat anyway, which is also an exponentially inefficient way to use our resources for the sake of food preference.

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DeepWithin (119) (@deepwithin) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@imtheghostlight, I’d love to be vegan, but I’m concerned about some things. I’m especially concerned about protein. How do you get your protein and how much protein do you eat?
Also, do you use supplements? Omega 3, b-complex, protein powders, etc…

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Ghostlight (38) (@imtheghostlight) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@deepwithin, I would love to answer your questions – proteins. Proteins can be found in legumes, which is the word that encompasses beans, rice, etc.. chances are if you go vegan, you’ll put these in place of where meat used to be in your diet. Beans are pretty relatable to chicken anyway – tastes like what you put on it! haha. There’s also a lot of soy-based meat substitutes if you need a gentler transition, all of these are pretty good. You can also find proteins in nuts like peanuts, almonds, cashews, and also pistachios are a great source. Rice is a great choice too – wild rice, brown rice preferably – white rice is actually not all that healthy, most of the time it is bleached. You also have your relatives of rice, like lentils, quinoa, etc.

Omega 3’s are harder to find in vegetation, but not impossible. Remember chia pets? Chia seeds are a very excellent source of omega 3s. You can get them at grocery stores in a snack sized bag. they don’t taste like too much, you can sprinkle them on almost anything and it just tastes like you put some tiny crunchy seasoning on it. I usually throw it in my oatmeal in the morning.

Personally, I do use supplements to just regulate my body’s health, I would use them even if I did eat meat. I take a one-a-day vitamin tablet (those supplements that contain all your important vitamins and minerals) and iron every once in a while. That way your body has consistency in what you’re taking in daily. Feel free to message me if you have more questions :) peace with you!

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St Emilion (2,991) (@manimal) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@imtheghostlight, “I’ve been vegetarian for quite some time and I always feel lighter and more conscious – and this is most definitely not because of poor nutrition.”

-Light-headedness is still an indicator of lacking nutrition.

“Basically what you’re doing when you’re eating meat is letting another animal take in all your nutrients, filter them down, and you’re eating that animal’s flesh. you’re getting a fraction of what you could be getting by just eating the vegetables yourself.”

-This is some of the weirdest “arguments” I’ve ever heard.
Do you think plants just sprout out of nowhere? Straight out of Friggs ethereal vagina?
No, plants feed on dead plants and animals, filtering them down, and then you eat their flesh. Getting a fraction of the previous organism’s nutrition.
It’s the exact same thing.

We are made out of flesh, flesh contains almost everything we need, in the correct ratios and balances. A single piece of meat contains almost all you need, if you only eat plants you have to eat a shitload of different ones, and getting the right balance is a very tricky art. The simpler the meal, the easier it is to digest. Just an egg or a piece of meat, that’s simple and the body handles it well. 20 different plants, now that’s a whole ‘nother story. It will require more energy to digest, and there will be more indigestion and fermentation (which makes you sick and weak and slows your mind.)
Another “fun” fact; the human body CAN NOT DIGEST CELLULOSE.

“All you have to watch is the certain nutrients you can’t get from many plants like omega 3, 6, and 9, B12, and that’s it.”

-Haha, this is funny. First of all, there’s a whole lot of other nutrients lacking in a vegan diet. The big one being complete protein, there’s almost no plant that has a decent amount of complete proteins (nope, the ones in legumes are not complete, far from it.)
There’s a shitload of omega6 in plants, in fact a vegetarian diet causes a massive overload of it. There’s very little of it in meat, unless the animals were fed the wrong food (aka industrial meat, feeding on grains and vegetable oil which is NOT what they’re supposed to eat. And NOT what WE’re supposed to eat either.)

Meat is an almost complete food source, a piece of meat covers almost all your nutritional needs. There’s no plant that can pull that off.

“Those are the only things that you get from meat that you can’t from most plants – most being the key word choice, you can still find them in plants.”

-The only things? You sure are uneducated, which comes as no surprise.
There’s a myriad of nutrients lacking in vegan food, such as the previously mentioned amino acids, among many others.
Most of the nutrients can be found in plants too, yes, but only in minimal amounts and only coupled with other shit that offsets the balance.

“So basically, if you’re eating meat, the only reason is personal preference.”

-Hmm, well yea, I prefer health and strength, and proper maintenance of the human body. That’s my preference.
You prefer an ideology over this, that’s your choice. Your loss. Your responsibility (or maybe lack thereof.)

“Meat also causes exponential amounts of health issues – osteoporosis (to fully digest meat, your body has to take extreme measures by breaking down calcium phosphate in the bone), high blood pressure, heart disease, colon cancer… the list goes on.”

-Hahaha, that’s nothing but myth.
First of all, osteoporosis, that’s complete bullshit. Decent quality meat has lots of calcium in it, and then there’s the bones which are full of it, various glands also contain high amounts of calcium (the endocrine epiphysis being a prime example.) If you want more calcium (like for muscle building, otherwise unnecessary) you can just chow some cruciferous veggies on the side.
This breaking down of calcium you mention… only happens when you get an acid overload, that doesn’t happen if your diet is sane. And yknow, the typical vegetarian diet leads to acid overload too.

High blood pressure is not a result of eating meat, it’s a result of a shitty lifestyle, and another common cause is too much salt and sugar (which is usually in most meat-eaters’ diets in excessive amounts, yes, but it’s not the meat’s fault.)

If eating meat caused heart disease, there would be no human species, we would have gone extinct a long-ass time ago. Because yknow, our ancestors ate a shitload of meat. My primal ancestors ate almost exclusively meat, there wasn’t much edible vegetation up here during the ice age, and actually there wasn’t much until we started importing veggies from distant lands.
The estimated main culprit of our heart-disease ridden culture is actually processed milk/dairy, which causes a buildup of cholesterol in the vascular system, in an attempt to repair the damage caused by modified fat globules.
Another major contributor is a lack of omega3, which makes the blood too thick. Then there’s the cholesterol balance, an incorrect HDL:LDL ratio is a big problem. And guess what, the best source of good cholesterol is animal fat, while most vegetable oils are full of the bad kind (and the omega6 which thickens the blood.)

Colon cancer is mostly a result of indigestion and fermentation, not meat. Meat requires thorough mastication, that’s where people go wrong. Meat is fine, but undigested anything is a huge problem in big amounts. Very few people chew their food properly, which makes it impossible to digest it fully, and as a result you get fermenting garbage in your intestines.
Poorly masticated meat is not the main culprit though, grains are, especially the heavily processed forms like pasta and bread. There is no way on earth for the human body to digest those fibres and that insane amount of starch. And of course, lots of cellulose.

“I’m not trying to sound like you should change your life or anything, just want you to fairly see the other side of things.”

-By spewing a bunch of uneducated nonsense? Way to go, mate!
You clearly don’t know the first thing about nutrition and human biology, educate yourself before you make a massive ass of yourself again.

“just one more thing you may find interesting – with so many people starving in the world, we still see meat as a must in first world countries – to the point where we are feeding our livestock a very, very large chunk of our agricultural grains and vegetables. […] which is also an exponentially inefficient way to use our resources for the sake of food preference. “

-Right, and where do you think we get the nutrition for the crops? That’s right, from other plants and animals.
Do you even know what the circle of life means? That’s elementary school shit yknow.

I don’t even eat that meat you speak of anyway, because it’s garbage. Same goes for commercial veggies. It’s all rubbish, made for fast production and big profit, completely disregarding quality. Doesn’t matter if it’s meat or veggies, it’s all shit.
And you know what? If you’re eating American veggies, you’re likely ingesting Agent Orange and ludicrous amounts of Roundup, and they’re most likely GMO as well.

I eat meat from healthy animals that grew up in nature, living the way they should, and I eat plants that are not ruined by humans. I only buy from organic farmers and hunters/butchers, I have my own plants at home, and I forage.
I only eat quality food, because I value health.

Ideologies don’t mean shit to me. They’re a virus afaic.

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Anonymous (3) (@) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@manimal, Hi just some questions if you have the time. with a diet like that how are you doing for the days you’re eating out ? I try to learn about nutrition and you seem to know the subject. Your diet is a ketogenic diet right? but is it good for the brain if you don’t fuel it with glucose because I think the brain need it to function correctly?

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St Emilion (2,991) (@manimal) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@askarben1, How I do when I’m eating out? Well that’s simple… I don’t. Unless you’re talking about munching the lady oyster huhuh.

I wouldn’t call my diet ketogenic. It’s relatively low-carb, but I get my needs met, I only rarely drop into ketosis (and that’s usually when I’m fasting.)
The body can synthesize glucose quite well, you don’t need as much sugar as the labels on the coke cans say yknow. And I’m seriously doubting the notion that all that glucose is beneficial for the brain, it actually seems to be the opposite.

Basically the problem with glucose is the “insulin rollercoaster” which has your glucose rising and dropping like crazy. That’s how most people live, that’s why they get tired in the afternoon. When you eat a bunch of sugar, your glucose gets too high, so the body counters that by releasing insulin, this is an overcompensation which drops your glucose too low for a while, which sends most people to the cookie jar so to speak and so the cycle starts over. Like a rollercoaster. This gives the impression that you need more carbs when you actually don’t. Excessive fast carbs are the source of the problem.
High-glycemic foods should be kept at a minimum except when you work out. That’s what fast carbs are for, short intense bursts of energy output. Slow carbs are for endurance. Fat is for long-term stable energy.

If you eat fast carbs that you don’t use, your body hast to deal with it, and this leads to restlessness, headaches, body fat, and disease.
So the time to fuel your brain with those fast carbs is when you need to think fast and act fast, for example playing sports. Don’t be fooled by the labels on the energy drinks, the sugar won’t increase your concentration and mental performance when you’re studying or working in the office, it will usually have the direct opposite effect. It will not help you stay awake for any long period of time, it will make you more awake for a short while and then make you tired.

Carb overload is toxic in many ways, and it’s usually overlookd because people don’t understand that diet and nutrition is all about chain reactions. Many droplets of water come together into a big river.

Hope this answered your questions.

Peace and love
//Elion

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Ghostlight (38) (@imtheghostlight) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@manimal : ok, first off – I’m not vegan, I’m vegetarian. So I know that you were skimming, and just forming opinions instead of thinking about what was said. Also, “light” is not synonymous with “light-headed”. I was describing the way my body feels when I eat correctly, which is light in weight. I will also cite some places where you can affirm what I’m saying.

You make some good arguments, but most are invalid, or just you trying to insult me and not having to do with your argument.

No, plants don’t only have decayed matter as their source of nutrition. There’s a process that goes by the name of “photosynthesis.” Plants actually depend on sunlight for 80% of their nutritional needs, not decaying matter or flesh. The decaying matter acts as a “fertilizer” (you may have heard these words used in agriculture or botany before). This is mostly composed of non-mineral nutrients, which are hydrogen and carbon. They also need a few more, such as phosphorous, and potassium, which comes from chemical reaction of decaying, not directly from the matter itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis

as for saying “flesh is all we need” , that doesn’t really prove anything for me, that is your opinion. Yes, plants are harder to digest – you actually burn calories doing it. That’s why many fruits and vegetables are classified as 0cal, keep you fuller and fueled for longer. That is a good thing. You use the energy as you digest it.

Indegestion on the other hand, you cannot say is only caused by eating vegetables. Yes, sometimes it occurs in vegetarian diets, but is most relatable to colitis if it is found in the case being studied.

Yes, we cannot digest cellulose directly. But then again, to add to your argument, no known vertebrate can, herbivore or otherwise – but it helps us digest every single other thing we put in our body. (insoluble/soluble fiber)

fermentation, on the other hand, also occurs in all animals, no matter what you eat.

Complete proteins. These can be found in soybean and quinoa. A quick google search will clear that one up for you. :) That also makes amino acids accessible.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/384323-sources-of-complete-protein-in-a-vegan-diet/

I apologize for mentioning omega 6 by mistake, you’re correct about that one. Also, I think I typed high blood pressure by mistake. I was reading a case study. So, I apologize for my misinformation.

“Most of the nutrients can be found in plants too, yes, but only in minimal amounts and only coupled with other shit that offsets the balance.” – opinion, not fact, and not backed by fact. do you have literature on this one?

As for my ideology, I didn’t even mention anything about any kind of ideology in my post – if you’re biased, and offended by an ideology I didn’t mention, that is your reality, and not mine.

As for the things you claimed as myths, here’s some citations and articles that you can read on.

osteoporosis:
http://www.organicauthority.com/health/high-meat-intake-is-linked-to-osteoporosis-and-what-you-can-do-to-avoid-it.html

type 2 diabetes case study:
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/9/2108.long

Colon cancer and other cancers caused by meat:

Eating meat increases cancer risk by up to 300%

Heart disease:
Here’s an exerpt “Hazen’s study showed that carnitine, an amino acid contained in all meat products, is a major factor in heart failure. Similarly, an Oxford University study of nearly 45,000 adults in last January’s American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that vegetarians were 32 percent less likely to suffer from heart disease than people who ate meat and fish.”
http://www.shreveporttimes.com/article/DG/20130415/OPINION/304150006/Study-Eating-meat-can-lead-heart-disease

Here’s an article published by the Scientific American that may also clear up some misconceptions you have about your ancestors eating mostly meat (a common misconception)
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2012/07/23/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/

also, the diet your ancestors probably had : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet

I think the rest of your writing I do not need to address, since the rest is mostly insults and opinions. Yes, I do understand the circle of life. Things die without my help or me eating them. Everything dies on it’s own and goes back around.

Sorry if things in my last post seemed simplified, but I was writing it so it could be understood. If you would explain it different, have things to add – that’s great, but a lot of your argument is invalid and not sourced or backed by any means, proof of which is just a quick google search. If you’d like to have a conversation, I would be more than happy to, but not if you’re basis of conversation is just trying to stir the pot.

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Nakedape (112) (@nakedape) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

It is beginning to sound like a plot, an animal conspiracy to insure the untimely demise of carnivores and longer lives of vegetarians.

They seek their revenge brilliantly. Just think about it. The more animal foods people eat, the greater their risk of dying of chronic diseases such as heart disease, cancer, and diabetes.

When people switch to a diet of plants, their risk for such diseases miraculously diminishes. Animal foods are high in saturated fat and cholesterol, both important contributors to disease. Plant foods are low in saturated fats and completely free of cholesterol.

Plant foods are rich in fiber which lowers blood cholesterol levels, improves blood sugar control, and reduces risk of gastro-intestinal disorders; animal foods are completely fiber-free.

The protein in plant foods protects against heart disease and kidney disease; animal protein increases risk for these diseases.

Plant foods are rich in antioxidant nutrients like vitamin C, vitamin E, and beta-carotene, which protect us from free-radical damage; animal foods contain few of these protective nutrients.

Just when you’d imagine they’d be doing their victory dance, a whole new arsenal of secret weapons is summoned — phytochemicals. Needless to say, these little powerhouses are completely absent in animal foods.

— Becoming Vegan, 2000

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Ghostlight (38) (@imtheghostlight) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@nakedape, good quote :)

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Caleb McCoy (111) (@cjmccoy93) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

I’m curious as to how the vegetarians and vegans here then explain the highly spiritual element of traditional societies like the Native Americans who consumed large amounts of meat (bison, deer, etc.)

Plus, we can’t deny the fact that the addition of meat (and magic mushrooms if you ask Terence McKenna :P ) into the protohuman diet helped us grow the massive brains we have today.

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Ghostlight (38) (@imtheghostlight) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@cjmccoy93, hey Jack! I’d like to contribute some thoughts if you don’t mind!
Native americans did consume large amounts of meat such as bison, deer, fish, etc. . But this diet was also complemented heavily by spiritual drugs such as peyote, datura root, datura seed and stem, mushrooms, etc. I was recently reading a book called “The Teachings Of Don Juan : A Yaqui Way Of Knowledge” Which is a book about a white man being mentored by a yaqui brujo (medicine man / shaman of the yaqui natives in arizona). They do consume plenty of meat, but in the yaqui way of things, there isn’t much vegetation to eat that isn’t either poison or highly hallucinogenic. I think that is a good way to bypass if you still prefer to eat meat, or if your environment isn’t too forgiving and you don’t have too much choice in the matter.

With brain growth – meat eating does contribute a lot of high calorie intake that helps with brain growth, but also berries such as blackberries, blueberries, apples, grapes, and cranberries have also proven to be essential to protect your brain cells. Coniferous greens like spinach, kale, and plants of that sort then help to prevent cell decay in the brain.
examples : http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/09/08/cookinglight.food.boost.mind/index.html

I’ve never tried shrooms, but since you have the personal experience with that I’ll take your word for it Jack :)

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Nakedape (112) (@nakedape) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@cjmccoy93,

I have not come across any evidence that eating meat helped our brains grow bigger, and I would say that there is probably evidence for and against this theory. However, looking back in history, some of the greatest minds (albeit, not the biggest brains) supported a plant based diet.

I wouldn’t be able to comment with any authority on Native American diet’s, however Buddha I believe said that ‘eating meat extinguishes the seed of great compassion’. Therefore it would be contrary, one would assume to spiritual enlightenment. However, I believe he said eating meat was karma neutral under specific circumstances, for example if it was otherwise going to goto waste or if it was already dead etc

Gandhi was also a vegetarian, you could argue he was one of the most enlightened spiritual leaders who existed.

The controversial Osho said he did not outright advocate vegetariansm but believed it would come about as a by-product of meditation.

As for the greatest spiritual leader to have lived, Jesus. I don’t know.. What do you think he would say?

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Ghostlight (38) (@imtheghostlight) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@nakedape, here is an interesting article regarding your last question:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kamran-pasha/was-jesus-a-vegetarian_b_276141.html

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smalls (68) (@smalls) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@nakedape, Just some food for thought (pun intended)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21452485
Compared to other primates and mammals of our size, humans allocate a much larger share of their daily energy budget to “feed their brains.” The disproportionately large allocation of our energy budget to brain metabolism has important implications for our dietary needs. The need for an energy-rich diet also appears to have shaped our ability to detect and metabolize high-fat foods. Humans show strong preferences for lipid-rich foods.
Our gastrointestinal (GI) tract, with its expanded small intestine and reduced colon, is quite different from those of chimpanzees and gorillas and is consistent with the consumption of a high-quality diet with large amounts of animal food (Milton, 1987, ). Finch and Stanford (2004) have recently shown that the evolution of key “meat-adaptive” genes in hominid evolution were critical to promoting enhanced lipid metabolism necessary for subsisting on diets with greater levels of animal material.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9505798
‘A shift in the hominid resource base towards more high-quality foods occurred approximately two million years ago; this was accompanied by an increase in relative brain size and a shift towards modern patterns of fetal and infant development. There is evidence for both meat and fish scavenging, although sophisticated tool industries and organized hunting had not yet developed.’

http://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html
Fragments of a 1.5-million-year-old skull from a child recently found in Tanzania suggest early hominids weren’t just occasional carnivores but regular meat eaters. The researchers suggested this particular infant died because of lack of meat, which is rich in B-vitamins. Alternatively, if the child still depended on the mother for milk, it may have been the mother who lacked meat. These findings suggest that “human brain development could not have existed without a diet based on regular consumption of meat,”

**To sum it all up, the large brain expansion that occurred in early hominids would not have been possible on a vegan diet.**

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Caleb McCoy (111) (@cjmccoy93) 4 years, 8 months ago ago

@imtheghostlight, @nakedape, Alright thanks for the input fellas. I especially liked the Jesus article, but mostly for the discussion of early Jewish church and how their sect was basically highjacked by Paul.

@smalls, So to some degree one could argue that we reached this level of consciousness through meat? (Just throwing thoughts out there)

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