A controversy from 'Conversations with God'

delvingflow (@Vrindi224) 7 years, 8 months ago

I’m readings he first book of Coversations with God by Neale Donald Walsh and something I can’t get my head around is a statement ‘God’ makes saying that Hitler went to heaven without further explanation. Does anyone else who has read the book have any views or ideas about this?

April 5, 2014 at 10:11 am
Marlon (97) (@shoeopener) 7 years, 8 months ago ago

That was an interesting one… Doesn’t it mean that God, all powerful had to show a valid example of true forgiveness in his manipulative ways through the logic of the unfortunate readers because of the author?

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 7 years, 8 months ago ago

Excerpt:

“Walsch: But those who have taught me all about the rights and wrongs, the dos and don’ts, the shoulds and shouldn’ts, told me all those rules were laid down by You—by God.

God: Then those who taught you were wrong. I have never set down a “right” or “wrong,” a “do” or a “don’t.” To do so would be to strip you completely of your greatest gift—the opportunity to do as you please, and experience the results of that…. To say something—a thought, a word, an action—is “wrong” would be as much as to tell you not to do it…. To prohibit you would be to restrict you. To restrict you would be to deny the reality of Who You Really Are.

God: Evil is that which you call evil. Yet even that I love, for it is only through that which you call evil that you can know good; only through that which you call the work of the devil that you can know and do the work of God. I do not love hot more than I do cold, high more than low, left more than right. It is all relative. It is all part of what is.

I do not love “good” more than I love “bad.” Hitler went to heaven. When you understand this, you will understand God.”

With our way of thinking, with our morality, Hitler was a piece of shit who did many atrocious things that of which cannot be forgiven. But the thing that has to be understood is that outside of our morality, there are no global/absolute rights or wrongs, good or bad – they don’t exist. There’s only what is and what will be.

Thinking about things from that point of view, did hitler really do anything wrong? Well, if wrongs don’t exist, how could he have done something “wrong”? How could anything anyone ever do or has ever done be wrong? They can’t.

As the God in this book explains, our purpose is to be who we truly are, and freewill is one of the tools to aid us in going about doing so. God would never create a restriction to impede us from fully embracing our purpose, or from using the tools it gave us.

So, in my opinion, understanding that hitler went to heaven means to understand that in God’s view there are no rights or wrongs. But, I could be wrong, hehe :)

From what I’ve looked up, in book 2 he touches more on hitler.

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delvingflow (0) (@Vrindi224) 7 years, 8 months ago ago

I get God is supposedly all-forgiving and if there is no right or wrong there is nothing to forgive. But if our purpose is to find who we are by doing what we want then surely it must be ‘wrong’ in some sense to stop other people’s free will. Anyway I’ll have to keep going to the second book.
Also I guess it depends on the definition of heaven

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delvingflow (0) (@Vrindi224) 7 years, 8 months ago ago

God in the book said that we create our own reality, sort of like karma, that everything we think, say and do has an affect on our lives, so surely what hitler would have created for himself would have been negative and not self-realization and heaven? Haha it’s so confusing

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 7 years, 8 months ago ago

Yea it is :) There are so many different views, feelings, ways of interpreting this stuff, kind of makes your head hurt trying to piece it all together.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BBMzqdeCYAIHjP1.jpg

Do you remember in the first chapter when God was talking about communication and the problem with “words”? That’s how I feel. We get caught up in the interpretations of the words and kinda lose some of the true meanings behind them. Thus I go more with my intuition and how I feel when the logic isn’t making any sense. And how I feel is that Hitler was in the wrong, but I don’t know. In the universal scheme of things, it probably wasn’t that big of a deal… which is kind of fucked up, but whatever.

Focusing more on what you said, specifically about the freewill, stopping someone else’s freewill is somewhat along the lines of exerting or expressing your own freewill. So is it wrong to do that? Like you said, in some sense probably, but I’d be lying if I said I knew where those lines began and ended.

I can’t even guess how hilter felt internally about his actions. The way I am now, I can’t really comprehend his point of view – was probably a really disconnected one if I had to say.

You should check out Andy Weir’s “The Egg”, if you already haven’t. Here’s a link: http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html

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delvingflow (0) (@Vrindi224) 7 years, 7 months ago ago

Wow. ‘The Egg’ story is so cool, but super weird at the same time. I don’t know why but it kind of creeped my out to think if i was everyone. The concept is so facinating though. It’s funny how in a way it kind of feels right, the whole story

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Alex (63) (@alexsabus) 7 years, 8 months ago ago

Maybe the God in the book is Satan, and by Heaven he meant “Hell”.

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