Are women the new men?

kiley (@kiley) 10 years, 5 months ago

@ BirdFlyingHigh, The millions of years we spent evolving as nomadic people have sculpted our brains, not the last 5000 years of organized society.

December 13, 2011 at 9:56 pm
Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 10 years, 5 months ago ago

Yes, effeminate men who cry when the woman fucks him and leaves like he is meat, lol. She doesn’t call, she says “back off ya clingy bitch, it was what it was, get over it”. Chicks who love muscle cars and guys who love “the sound of music”. Dudes who drink alcopop and chicks who drink beer and tequila shots. Gimme a break, this is bullshit!!!

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Dan (890) (@danfontaine) 10 years, 5 months ago ago

Lol Ray

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Dan (890) (@danfontaine) 10 years, 5 months ago ago

That’s a good thought dave, thanks for putting everything into one perspective for everybody.
It seems to me like what it boils down to is Testosterone vs Estrogen and what the exact effects they have on the entire psychosomatic system. I don’t think it can ever be deemed accurate that the differences in men and women are purely societal/role modeling. Sex is one of the last things decided upon at during fetile development so it is sinking with me that yes, Men and Women have equal brain anatomies at birth, but Testosterone and Estrogen from then on affect the development of not only the body but also the psyche, which is a product of what goes on in the body. Male thoughts and Female thoughts tend to be quite different. These differences should undoubtedly lead to development of unique strengths as the two sexes seem to exhibit different initiatives in life, thus engage themselves in stimuli that are more relevant to their gender’s archetypal characteristics.

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Flynnstone (813) (@flynnstone) 10 years, 5 months ago ago

I think it’s so difficult to boil it down to what is “female” and what is purely “male” because from the moment we’re born,(and sometimes even before birth), we are fit into those gender roles. Newborn girls are dressed in pink, boys in blue. Baby shower gifts vary greatly according to gender. As we grow up, these gender roles are encouraged as the norm and we participate in them until we are conscious enough of our surroundings to rebel against them, if we wish.
I think it would be interesting if there was a baby that was not treated as either a boy or a girl until they hit a certain age. I know there was a feminist book written about it (I think it was called Child X or something), but I don’t know of any studies currently.
Essentially my point is this: it is difficult to figure out what is inherently male or female because we are pushed into gender roles from the moment we enter the world. We may transcend those gender roles as we grow up, but it is difficult to find out what these “core” values are for both a man and a woman due to all the extraneous bullshit.

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BirdFlyingHigh (152) (@birdflyinghigh) 10 years, 5 months ago ago

@Manimalhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Sex_differences

The jury’s out on if higher male mortality is related to social causes, like injury, environmental stress, what have you, or if it’s because larger creatures tend to have lower life expectancy. Interesting…


@Ray
– Don’t you dare claim tequila shots for the entire male gender!

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Tom (3) (@phishphan) 10 years, 5 months ago ago

Social networking and text messaging are making young people more passive and anti-social. I have noticed this first hand. I used to call girls to talk on my house phone when i was younger, then after a few years of owning a cell phone I rarely call girls. I usually text them or get a hold of them on facebook when I’m interested in dating them. I think modern technology is contributing to your idea that guys in this generation need to “grow balls.”

p.s. It sounds like you have been dating the wrong guys, hang in there and you will find the right person some day!

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Gustave Molinari (0) (@gustave) 10 years, 5 months ago ago

“Human bipolarity was both binding force and driving energy for all human behavior, from sonnets to nuclear equations. If any being thinks that human psychologists have exaggerated this, let it search Terran patent offices, libraries, and art galleries for the creations of eunuchs.”
-Robert Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 10 years, 5 months ago ago

@BirdFlyingHigh I don’t really trust that stuff, but as I said I don’t really know. But something that’s true is that males were made to be disposable, while females were not. Males have a higher birthrate, because they get themselves killed all the time. Now, human males don’t do that shit very much any more, but our genes don’t really understand that yet.

It’s hard to get any scientific facts about the real rates of death, considering all the situational stuff that dilutes the evidence.

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Alex (1) (@alexsell) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

Woah woah woah! I don’t think so, women have been trying to gain equal rights to men for how many years. But they still expect to be treated above men and differently. Nope, if you want to vote you gently pay for dates and shit. Thems the rules

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

Okay, simple. Men and Women ARE DIFFERENT..but deserve equal RIGHTS. That is a simple concept. 2nd, women aren’t the new men, men are the new women.
On a side note, I miss when women acted like women.

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Joseph (114) (@warriors41) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

Wow, it’s on page five. I think what is happening is Men are being more feminized. Men are evolving to catch up with women and hopefully we’ll be able to work out all the gender related issues in human culture. Women are not changing, they are just finding their rightful place. The evidence is in the job market, women are realizing their true potential.

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

Funny how this came up, I posted a status on a site not long ago “what a role reversal, it is the age of the male pussy and the female dick and balls”.
You are not imagining it, it is happening. Dudes used to be “come on baby lets do it” and shes like “i dont know, i want it to be special” and hes like “i love you baby, it will be special”
Now the women are like “you gonna fuck me or what” and the guys like “don’t objectify me!!!” and runs out crying.
I seen a movie “man of the house” a girl is trying to be all tough saying how she loves “vanishing point” Tommy Lee Jones says “my favorite movie is the sound of music”
You should see “Death proof” also, prime example of the hardening of women and the softening of men.

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alive (7) (@alive) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

Men aren’t the bread winners anymore. Pay for your own shit. You both have jobs, I’m assuming. So unless you’re cooking his food or cleaning the house or having his babies, there should be no single responsibility to pay for things. If you’re on a date, pay for your own self! What is this sense of entitlement that we have as women that men just owe us all these things?

I can open my own door, I can pay for my own food. I work hard for my money! I can’t imagine someone just expecting me to spend it on them. If they want to spend money on me, cool. That’s super nice. If I wanna spend money on them, also a nice gesture but should never be expected.

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alive (7) (@alive) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

Men aren’t the bread winners anymore. Pay for your own shit. You both have jobs, I’m assuming. So unless you’re cooking his food or cleaning the house or having his babies, there should be no single responsibility to pay for things. If you’re on a date, pay for your own self! What is this sense of entitlement that we have as women that men just owe us all these things?

I can open my own door, I can pay for my own food. I work hard for my money! I can’t imagine someone just expecting me to spend it on them. If they want to spend money on me, cool. That’s super nice. If I wanna spend money on them, also a nice gesture but should never be expected.

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Anonymous (2) (@) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

This has certainly been an odd thread to read through! Some of the long running ‘back and forths’ were pretty funny/contradictory.

Two themes that popped up through all 4 pages: What is innately natural male/female (sex/biology) and what is assimilated through nurture (gender/culture). Very different. One we literally have no control over, one we not only control ourselves but we also mold a future generation. There didn’t seem to be a good differentiation between the two in previous posts, even the ones alluding to nature vs. nurture.

Personally, I’m inclined to believe that the personality traits of men and women are approaching an apex in the future where we will have only “people”. There will be male people and female people, but person will constitute the only label we need. Biologically I hope the things I find physically attractive about women stay the same, because frankly I love women. They smell nice, they’re soft and smooth, they have delightful curves and all the best parts. No brainer. But personality wise I think I value the same things I do in my closest male friends: intellect, humour, loyalty, common sense, etc., etc. None of those traits should be more closely associated with one gender than another. The difference is, when I feel a connection with a female for the reasons listed above, AND I find her physically attractive, well that is the recipe for an intimate relationship both physically and mentally. With male friends, in the absense of physical attraction and only the qualities above, that is how I discover new friends it seems. Not associates, or people I know, but actual friends. I have a male friend I have an emotional intimicy with but we have known each other since we have been 9 years old and he is essentially my brother.

Now, as far as the feminization of men: I think that’s an unfair (and technically insulting to women) term to use. You can teach a boy it’s acceptable to express his emotions without raising a wishy washy cry baby. You can teach a boy that protecting someone you love can mean caring for them while their sick or helping them eliminate stress in their life…it doesn’t have to mean beating up a mugger or threatening a rival male. To think in such black and white terms with regard to “male” and “female” behaviours or emotions is pretty outdated and not indicative of someone with an open and accepting mind.

Personally: I both approach and get approached by women. I’m respectful but forward as the situation dictates. I’ve blunty suggested that we should have sex at the end of a fun evening when we didn’t seem like we were a match (with success and failure), and I’ve suggested waiting to get phyiscal when I think I’ve met someone I connect with (and It’s paid off). I cried when my dog was euthanized while she took her last breath curled up in my arms (she was a great dog), and the first time I EVER heard my father cry was when he called to tell me she was dying. I drove home from university to take her to be euthanized out of love and respect. If someone can’t relate to that it has nothing to do with being masculine or feminine and everything to do with how honest someone is with themself and what they feel. Some former lovers enjoyed how easily I could talk about what was on my mind/emotions, some found it off putting as they had only been with men who repress everything out of fear of not being masculine. And that, to me, is a “pussy”: Someone (male or female) who consciously tries to act within the “guidelines” of what it is to be a man or a woman. They operate out of fear. They are afraid to be judged and they do not act how their true self wants them to act out of fear. Rather than being their own person they are hung up on being “a man” and letting others decide if they are or aren’t. Kind of foolish in the grand scheme of things.

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Anonymous (2) (@) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

This has certainly been an odd thread to read through! Some of the long running ‘back and forths’ were pretty funny/contradictory.

Two themes that popped up through all 4 pages: What is innately natural male/female (sex/biology) and what is assimilated through nurture (gender/culture). Very different. One we literally have no control over, one we not only control ourselves but we also mold a future generation. There didn’t seem to be a good differentiation between the two in previous posts, even the ones alluding to nature vs. nurture.

Personally, I’m inclined to believe that the personality traits of men and women are approaching an apex in the future where we will have only “people”. There will be male people and female people, but person will constitute the only label we need. Biologically I hope the things I find physically attractive about women stay the same, because frankly I love women. They smell nice, they’re soft and smooth, they have delightful curves and all the best parts. No brainer. But personality wise I think I value the same things I do in my closest male friends: intellect, humour, loyalty, common sense, etc., etc. None of those traits should be more closely associated with one gender than another. The difference is, when I feel a connection with a female for the reasons listed above, AND I find her physically attractive, well that is the recipe for an intimate relationship both physically and mentally. With male friends, in the absense of physical attraction and only the qualities above, that is how I discover new friends it seems. Not associates, or people I know, but actual friends. I have a male friend I have an emotional intimicy with but we have known each other since we have been 9 years old and he is essentially my brother.

Now, as far as the feminization of men: I think that’s an unfair (and technically insulting to women) term to use. You can teach a boy it’s acceptable to express his emotions without raising a wishy washy cry baby. You can teach a boy that protecting someone you love can mean caring for them while their sick or helping them eliminate stress in their life…it doesn’t have to mean beating up a mugger or threatening a rival male. To think in such black and white terms with regard to “male” and “female” behaviours or emotions is pretty outdated and not indicative of someone with an open and accepting mind.

Personally: I both approach and get approached by women. I’m respectful but forward as the situation dictates. I’ve blunty suggested that we should have sex at the end of a fun evening when we didn’t seem like we were a match (with success and failure), and I’ve suggested waiting to get phyiscal when I think I’ve met someone I connect with (and It’s paid off). I cried when my dog was euthanized while she took her last breath curled up in my arms (she was a great dog), and the first time I EVER heard my father cry was when he called to tell me she was dying. I drove home from university to take her to be euthanized out of love and respect. If someone can’t relate to that it has nothing to do with being masculine or feminine and everything to do with how honest someone is with themself and what they feel. Some former lovers enjoyed how easily I could talk about what was on my mind/emotions, some found it off putting as they had only been with men who repress everything out of fear of not being masculine. And that, to me, is a “pussy”: Someone (male or female) who consciously tries to act within the “guidelines” of what it is to be a man or a woman. They operate out of fear. They are afraid to be judged and they do not act how their true self wants them to act out of fear. Rather than being their own person they are hung up on being “a man” and letting others decide if they are or aren’t. Kind of foolish in the grand scheme of things.

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Jay (87) (@jaygran7) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

I agree with Nicholas in everything that he said.
Personally I think that the dichotomy that once existed between women and men is becoming less distinct as our society is transgressing some of the former restrictive beliefs it once held. So to me, there is no role switch but rather, the barriers and contrasts between the two genders are becoming more analogous. It’s going to take a few more generations for us to get to the point that we’re not judged in some way because of our sex, but, eventually we’ll completely supersede the current outlook upon gender roles—just look how far the gay community has come. Yes, time’s are changing, but it’s only to those who haven’t grown out of the previous mindset that this transgression of morality is agitating.

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Jay (87) (@jaygran7) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

I agree with Nicholas in everything that he said.
Personally I think that the dichotomy that once existed between women and men is becoming less distinct as our society is transgressing some of the former restrictive beliefs it once held. So to me, there is no role switch but rather, the barriers and contrasts between the two genders are becoming more analogous. It’s going to take a few more generations for us to get to the point that we’re not judged in some way because of our sex, but, eventually we’ll completely supersede the current outlook upon gender roles—just look how far the gay community has come. Yes, time’s are changing, but it’s only to those who haven’t grown out of the previous mindset that this transgression of morality is agitating.

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alive (7) (@alive) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

Also, just a little side note to that alex dude up there:
“if you want to vote you gently pay for dates and shit. Thems the rules”
what in the world does that have to do with anything? my political rights have nothing to do with my gender’s social position.
you know what men did to be able to vote? exist. there was no expectation from them before gaining all their deserved rights simply because they had an extra appendage between their legs.
and quite frankly, hearing that i ‘have’ to do something to gain what is naturally and rightfully mine is bullshit!
if you wanna talk politics, let’s talk policies that outright discriminate against women. but that’s not what we’re talking about.
we’re talking about men and women and their assigned gender roles in society: men being the bread winners and women being the housewives and how these roles are changing and progressing.

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alive (7) (@alive) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

Also, just a little side note to that alex dude up there:
“if you want to vote you gently pay for dates and shit. Thems the rules”
what in the world does that have to do with anything? my political rights have nothing to do with my gender’s social position.
you know what men did to be able to vote? exist. there was no expectation from them before gaining all their deserved rights simply because they had an extra appendage between their legs.
and quite frankly, hearing that i ‘have’ to do something to gain what is naturally and rightfully mine is bullshit!
if you wanna talk politics, let’s talk policies that outright discriminate against women. but that’s not what we’re talking about.
we’re talking about men and women and their assigned gender roles in society: men being the bread winners and women being the housewives and how these roles are changing and progressing.

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Rachel (0) (@fakeplastictrees) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

Stereotypes about what “women” expect from men in a dating situation are unhelpful. Women do not all want the same thing. I personally fucking hate when someone tries to pay for dinner and will not allow me to pay at least my fair share. Clearly some women want doors opened for them and meals paid for in full. Oddly enough, opinions vary. It’s almost like they’re individuals with different desires and preferences, huh.

If you don’t want to pay for her meal, don’t pay for her meal, and if you don’t want to open doors for her then don’t do that either. There are no rules, only the ones that you and your romantic partner decide upon yourselves.

Ren, you are made of awesome.

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Rachel (0) (@fakeplastictrees) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

Stereotypes about what “women” expect from men in a dating situation are unhelpful. Women do not all want the same thing. I personally fucking hate when someone tries to pay for dinner and will not allow me to pay at least my fair share. Clearly some women want doors opened for them and meals paid for in full. Oddly enough, opinions vary. It’s almost like they’re individuals with different desires and preferences, huh.

If you don’t want to pay for her meal, don’t pay for her meal, and if you don’t want to open doors for her then don’t do that either. There are no rules, only the ones that you and your romantic partner decide upon yourselves.

Ren, you are made of awesome.

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Andrew (4) (@delsol) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

I just wanna comment on the whole “differences in men and women” thing. The way I see it, to say “men and women are different” is misleading, because while yes, we are different, it’s not because we’re men or women. The fact of the matter is that EVERYONE is different, but the way society is and has been for all of recorded history, it conditions us to see certain gender roles. There is no “way women are” or “way men are”, every person is one hundred percent unique, and they will respond uniquely to the roles society presses upon them.

That’s where a lot of trouble comes in relationships, people expecting their partners to act a certain way and also expecting themselves to act a certain way. It’s a shame that so often genuine people who choose to break the mold are seen by their peers as strange or abnormal in a negative sense. Oh well, you know what they say about the road less traveled…

Bottom line, don’t expect people to act according to some predefined role, experience them for the individual that they are.

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Joseph (114) (@warriors41) 10 years, 4 months ago ago

My mother had another one of her religious prayer group parties the other day, and in between chatting on here listening to slayer and occasionally going upstairs to get a glass of water… I overheard them in the middle of a prayer. They were asking god to “…bring back our men and to stop this feminization of men…” and also to have jesus with them.

This made me want to bring back this discussion. Isn’t it a strange thing to ask? Instead of actually facing guys and telling them to man up, they held hands in a warm living room saying words. Now wether or not they are actually helping, none can know for sure. However it is still quite a strange thing to hear.

Isn’t also hilariously ridiculous how they ended with “jesus”. If they only knew the truth, they would get so mad to hear that they were actually praying for them to have mushrooms. lol

So we here at HE and on the internet can observe men switching roles in society, but a group of ladies who don’t know how to e-mail, can not. (or they are just rejecting reality). In other news, i’m high and seeing rainbow colours.

EDIT: I hope to GOD y’all have seen Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. If not, it’s on Blu ray yo.

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