Do YOU pledge allegiance to the flag?

Alex Eastman (@alex) 10 years, 9 months ago

Every morning of every schoolday, we all stand and face the flag. Nearly everyone in the room puts their hand over their hearts, heck some even say the pledge along with the intercom.
I am one of the few people in my 1st period that refuse to. I still stand, as a sign of respect. I like to think I stand as a sign of respect to the people who have lost their lives protecting ours.
Nobody has ever questioned me about why I don’t place my hand over my heart though. I think the reason why is I don’t want to pledge ‘allegiance’ to a country that supports bloodshed so much and has affected me with it’s corruptions so directly.
What about you? Do you abstain from this morning routine, or do you follow it? Why do you or don’t you?

October 1, 2011 at 2:17 pm
R.V. Star (151) (@rickvonstar) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

I don’t agree with some of the stuff the people running the U.S. are doing, but I say the pledge when I’m in a situation that requires it.

I’m not pledging my allegiance to the sometimes mislead and corrupted politicians, I’m pledging my allegiance to a country. Especially in the U.S., you have the right to remove those people from office that you see are not serving the country well.

When you pledge allegiance to the flag you are really saying the you pledge to remove any scumbags from from office provided they suck at their jobs.

What you seem to be saying is that you are refusing to pledge allegiance to the scumbags. I don’t pledge to scumbags either but I still say the pledge.

However, fuck saying the pledge in high school because in that context I think it’s used to pound mindless obedience into the students. Plus a lot a students use it to form in and out groups, and fuck those too. ( Usually along the lines of conservative righteous patriots and liberal moral reprobates)

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Kevin (19) (@benly150) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

The pledge of allegiance is quite funny in my opinion. When we are young, we are pretty much forced to say it, and are usually too young to bother questioning, or refusing to do it. I was never really explained as a child, what the meaning of the pledge is, or why we say it. It’s a form of brainwash. Do what we are told, even if we don’t know why we are doing it. Don’t question it. It set’s up a structure to the lives most people live today, and that’s exactly how our government wants it. If we weren’t raised this was, we would have more people questioning their government and the American way of life (working your ass off doing shit you hate to do, so you can survive). Today when the pledge of allegiance comes around, I don’t say the words, but I put my hand over my heart, to show respect for the land I live upon. I love the United States. It’s a beautiful place, with great people, but politics are absolute trash. And they way we have structured ourselves as a country, has just been falling downhill more and more. our liberties have been taken away, and our liberties are being taken away. I think that the pledge of allegiance is just something that has become automatic to do, and not much thought goes into the words for a lot of people. Of course, some people get really emotional about it and tear up, which is great, but, it’s all politics, and politics is bullshit.

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Em (473) (@emily) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

In school I did… I remember saying it slowly & wondering what the fuck all those big words meant :) I don’t like how they “make” you stand up & sing the national anthem & stuff though, whether it be at a sports game or whatever. And you get death looks if you don’t stand & participate! :)
This country was founded on great things…but it’s gone to hell, and I think it’s beginning to fall. I don’t like participating in those things bc no, I don’t want to pledge to the scumbags. In my heart, I appreciate what this country was founded on, but I don’t need to be forced/told how to show my gratitude.

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Daniel (7) (@meta) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

The pledge has a legitimate place in our schools and, hopefully, in the minds of American citizens. Being a member of the US Armed Forces and a proud patriot, I feel strongly about what the pledge represents: a promise to support our country in its reasonable endeavors (whether we agree with them or not) in order to promote freedom and equality. This isn’t just a political ploy to “brainwash” children, it is a way to constantly remind them what the flag stands for and, to a lesser extent, what our soldiers are risking their lives to defend.

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Em (473) (@emily) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

@ Daniel.. thank you for your service <3 There's countless different ways to look at this topic... and I completely respect yours & where you are coming from. But what you said makes me think of how the country re-pays their soldiers. I work in a sector of law enforcement & I have seen SO many vetrans coming through the system bc they come back with PTSD all fucked up, unable to mesh back with society, & there's very little that 'America' does to help them. Just my observation..

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Kevin (19) (@benly150) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

@Daniel, first off I want to say, thank you for your service. I highly respect anyone that volunteer’s their life to any of our countries armed forces. With that said, my father was drafted to the Vietnam war, and has been screwed by the U.S. government since. he has a lot of emotional baggage from that war, and the VA isn’t even free for him anymore. so like Em said, “There’s very little that ‘America’ does to help.” Also, promising to support a country whether you agree with it or not isn’t the best idea imo. Look at Hitler and his regime. Of course the U.S. will never go that far (hopefully). Committing yourself to a higher power that runs off of greed and power isn’t the best way to go imo. Lastly, The pledge of allegiance never reminded me of what the flag stands for, and all that stuff, because the California school system let me down, and never really broke it down for me, and explained to me what it meant, word for word. I’m sorry if anything I have said has offended you or anyone else, but I do respect your opinions even though I do not fully agree with them, and I hope you can do the same for me. Thanks, and good luck with your future en devours.

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Kirsten (1) (@kirsten) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

That’s a complicated question for me. I love our country, and I appreciate what it was founded on very much, however, the fact that they still make EVERYONE say “under God” bothers me. Yes, I am still stuck in the under God phase, and I won’t let go of it. Most of the time, I will put my hand over my heart to show respect, however, I usually don’t utter a word for that one little detail. I also seem to be one of the only people in large crowds that doesn’t bow their heads and pray, because I am simply not Christian. Its not defiance, its just me being honest. I’ve seen my other non-Christian friends bow their heads anyway and say “amen” and it sort of irritates me that they’re so scared of being judged, that they do as they’re told. If a Christian was in a room full of “Atheists”, I would never expect him to lie and say he was an atheist too, that’s disrespectful on so many levels. Its dishonest.

I totally ranted off track with that haha. My apologies.

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R.V. Star (151) (@rickvonstar) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

Kristen – The original pledge didn’t have “under God” in it so don’t feel bad haha.

And really there’s no reason to say it more than once if you understand the meaning.

Compelling someone to say a “voluntary” pledge is mob rule and ought to be disregarded as lunacy.

EDIT/off topic rant: Furthermore, anyone who tells you that the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation is under the false delusion that all other minorities in a country don’t count for being a part of that country. What about all the other people who weren’t Christians who helped found the country? I guess we just forget about them right??

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Kevin (19) (@benly150) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

@Keenan – off topic rant sounds like a good discussion. Maybe start a new one? I would be interested in what people have to say about this.

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Ka (308) (@kaciula) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

“a promise to support our country in its reasonable endeavors (whether we agree with them or not)”

Come on. This doesn’t go well with me. Whether we agree or NOT, we should support the decision of a select few who are in charge of the piece of land I was born in? This is insane. Please question this belief.

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Nate (0) (@lamentstheworld) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

i don’t but i like to stand up to respect those who died. that’s just personal preference to me.

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Eric (1,819)M (@blankey) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

Nope. I’d rather pledge allegiance to the world as a whole.

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Anonymous (0) (@) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

I pledge allegiance to this universe.
I’m not American, I’m a member of life, and I choose my actions based on what I understand is to be best for everyone.
All life has the same value.
I refused to stand and pledge my allegiance to the flag when I was a senior in high school. It saddened me to see the students do it out of habit, without even thinking about whom they are supporting (corporate dictatorship country)

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Kevin (19) (@benly150) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

@ Erika, you have no idea what you are talking about, how dare you!?

HAHA JK. I agree with you 1,000,000%

you hit the nail on the head! That’s just it, the pledge has turned into a pile of mumbled words that have no meaning. it’s just habit. I don’t think most people really grasp and hold every word of the pledge in their hearts. The words are embedded into our brains, we don’t even need to think to say it. We have been turned into robots as children repeating the same thing every morning. The pledge of allegiance tells us, to follow our country 100% without question and I have a lot of questions. First question I have for our government is WHAT THE F&*K!?!?!?!? Seriously, look where we are today.

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Daniel (7) (@meta) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

Forcing anyone to say the pledge is wrong, regardless of the circumstances – which is why you cannot get in trouble for not saying it and I respect those of you who don’t agree with it but still stand up to be respectful. That being said:

@Ka, maybe I should rephrase that or put it in perspective. I am always going to support the country and American way of life as a whole whether or not I agree with any particular issue. This is no way means that I won’t stand up against something I disagree with but I’m not going to discount the entire nation based on one or a few things. From a military perspective, even if I don’t think getting militarily involved in international affairs is appropriate, I’m going to support the choice that country has made to the extent that I will continue doing my job to the best of my ability.


@Eric
, if only our world could actually function as a peaceful whole, unfortunately there are too many conflicting idealogies and greedy, self-serving people for this to be realistic. :(


@Erika
, Ouch! That seems like quite the extremist approach to this. I do understand your frustration but find it slightful disrespectful that you wouldn’t even stand up. Although I don’t agree with your conjectures that our country is a “corporate dictatorship” or that all life has the same value (unless you mean human life, in which case that’s a whole different issue), I can definately understand your idealistic communistic view of our world. Perhaps you should subcribe to a bit of reality and think about this is terms that make sense in our national dynamic. If you aren’t unemployed and living off a hunter-gatherer way of life then you’re being a bit hypocritical. Please don’t take offense though, I’m just offering food for thought.


@Kevin
, I completely understand how you feel as my father and both grandfathers served in combat and they really don’t receive as much help as they really need after such seeing such scarring things. Also, there seems to be a common misconception that people who are patriotic or nationalistic are subscribing to the will of a greater governmental power. In some ways I can see why people might think this (some people can’t think for themselves and just accept what ‘big brother’ tells them) but I don’t want to be grouped with these sort of drones. I support the great people of this country who work hard and sacrifice so much to make the world a better place, not corporations or big government. Thank you for being respectful and thanks for the support!

Sorry if anyone was offended but i’d like to hear more opinions about this so I can further develop my own. Thanks.

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Shirley Bayne (3) (@shirley) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

Thanks to our soldiers (and pinche politicians) for giving us the right to CHOOSE if we pledge allegiance or not.

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Alex (141)M (@alexishungry) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

I say the pledge of allegiance because I love my country and pledge to serve it and do all I can to keep it doing it’s best. We have the best, most successful, freest form of government in the world. People fight in wars, etc. so that we have all the rights and freedom that we do. I love that and I pledge to do what I can to make sure the future generations have those freedoms too.

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Eric (1,819)M (@blankey) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

@Daniel
I can only dream..and my dreams are starting to come true, so maybe this one will too. :D

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Lizzie (5) (@nymzie) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

I absolutely pledge allegiance. I love my country and the people in it. I love the land itself. Do you know how beautiful America is?? I’ve driven cross country 5 times, always a different route, and it is GORGEOUS. I even love the American accent. I’ve lived abroad twice and nothing was so beautiful to me as an American voice. Politics and corporations may suck, but that is only a small part of America, and everything has some bad in it somewhere. America has given me an amazing life with an amazing education and opportunities. I know there are bad schools in America but my public schools were really great and thats what matters most to me in why I pledge. I pledge based solely on my American experience, not anyone else’s. America has given me EVERYTHING and I give it my loyalty in return. If America was bad to someone I would understand their decision not to be loyal to it.

I’m from New England which is a pretty patriotic place to live. Kids always knew what the pledge was about, it wasnt just mindless speaking. We had discussions about the pledge in school for as long as I can remember. No one was ever forced to stand up and say the pledge. When we got older we even talked in class about our decision to say it or not and respected each other’s decisions.

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t-rav (25) (@travis) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

Teachers would always get upset at me for not participating but I dont believe in god. Justice for all? Not by my thought of the word. I am thankful for the life that’s possible here but I have to many problems with the pledge.

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Alex Eastman (71) (@alex) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

@ Daniel. My uncle has served his 20+ years in the Navy, I have a deep respect for our troops. :) You defend us against those who wish to destroy us. What I have a problem with is saying it. I love what this country was built on, but not what it is now. Its all about money, its all about the individual’s wants, not about your neighbors. We seem to degrade more and more every day, into savages that only work for themselves and will step on anyone’s necks to get where they are wanting to go.
Politics should be a position of honor, but it seems to be more of a place of mudslinging and scummy practices, in order to have power and money. Nothing more. THAT is what I have a problem with.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

I did when I was in high school, I didn’t really know too much about what was going on back then. It was almost mechanical. Today, I would not. I don’t think the America the pledge was made for is the same one that exists. The government isn’t listening to the people who voted for them, while big business is undoing pretty much everything that made America such a great place to live, unmaking all those things that our ancestors fought for. It’s to the point where I seriously wonder if we the people almost like getting abused on some level.

It’s too bad there’s some megalomaniacs out there who will never have enough until they own everything. I hope America can once again become the place we were told about when we were younger, where if we all did our best to improve ourselves and get along, that everything will be ok.

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Kevin (19) (@benly150) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

@ Alex, you said, “I love that and I pledge to do what I can to make sure the future generations have those freedoms too.”

Unfortunately, our government, and the movers and shakers of our nation, don’t really give a crap about future generations. All they care about is how deep their pockets are, and they give us, the people, just the right amount so we don’t begin to riot the streets. In all seriousness, this country is great! In fact every country is great! They all have their flaws, and the all have their beauties. This whole fucking world is brilliant and amazing!

I pledge allegiance to the earth! United States, you are not better than everyone else! Sorry to burst your bubble!
Do I love you America? Hell yes! Do I love what politicians have done to you? Hell no! But guess what? we as a planet are filled with amazing people, and places. I will not dedicate myself to a piece of land, for it is not a God to me. I will respect this land because I reside here. But to me, this land can’t be summed up in a flag with some stars and stripes. This land is more than just that! We have sold ourselves short! We have words we force our children to obliviously dedicate, and promise themselves to be a slave to this nation! They don’t know better, and we have not taught them to know any better! In fact we are teaching them from the earliest ages, to become robots. Because Robots don’t protest. Robots don’t question their leaders, and the less questions from the people, the less trouble for politicians. We let them stick their hands down our pockets and throw shit in our faces as a thank you! Why do we allow this?

Because people are ignorant, and do not care about what happens, as long as they have a roof over their head, and are able to survive without much trouble! Hey guess what? Your government just fucked us all up, like they did in the past! They are not learning from their mistakes! Why you ask? Because they are greedy! They don’t care about you! They just pretend to care, so you don’t GET MAD, and say FUCK YOU! Why doesn’t today’s generation protest like they did in the 60’s and 70’s? What happened to us? Are we not still human? Do we really not care that our planet is dying, and government has the means to cure it, but don’t, because that means their money intake will decrease? And all the time, they are saying GOD BLESS AMERICA! FUCK THAT! Why not say, GOD BLESS THE WORLD? Oh that’s right! Because we don’t care what the world has to say. If we don’t like you, we will invade you and kill your civilians. In fact we won’t only kill your civilians, we will also kill our own men and women who have dedicated their lives for our country! This country is great, but the people running it, have it all wrong, and we are all to stupid, and too scared to do anything about it, and that’s right where they want us.

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Kevin (19) (@benly150) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

Geez, sorry everyone, I got a little heated there, and couldn’t stop typing. I love America, but damn, they have been screwing us bad. Open your eyes and your mind if you can;t see it. It’s all right there in front of you.

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Hifi (2) (@hifi) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

To everyone who stands during the Pledge out of respect for soldiers, let’s get one thing perfectly clear, the Pledge was never intended to honor soldiers and war. It’s not connected in any way (the original intent was to indoctrinate socialist-style nationalism and sell flags, and later to discriminate against non-Christians). I’d be interested in how you got the idea. BTW, standing has been defined as a form of speech (approval) when it comes to the Pledge. Those who disagree remain seated (I mean, really, if you’re standing with everyone else, it looks like everyone’s in it).

Enough reasons here for anyone, liberal or conservative, religious or atheist, veteran or pacifist to have the Pledge of Allegiance removed from public schools:

1. Meaning lost in endless repetition, no explanation given, no history provided.

2. Comprises an ideological viewpoint that is forced on little kids by authorities to whom they are dependent.

3. The two above, taken together, is the definition of brainwashing.

4. The absurdity of having to repeat a pledge daily that apparently is only good for 24 hours.

5. The routine of it, which makes you feel like a brain-dead, robot sheep as opposed to a citizen of a free country who enjoys individual liberty.

6. Subordinates the people to the government, which, we are told on good authority, was created by us, with allegiance to us, not us to it.

7. Exalts nationalism over federalism contrary to the basic principles of our Republic. Subsuming states and individual rights to central government is a necessary pre-requisite for a central socialist government to gain traction. This was an explicit goal of Francis Bellamy, the nationalist-socialist author of the PofA.

8. Encourages jingoism. Antagonistic tribalism. No other countries have their citizens swear a loyalty oath to their government (except the Philippines, mimicking the U.S).

9. Concocted by a company that sold flags as part of a plan to compel schools to buy more flags.

10. Unsavory connection with Nazis. The Pledge originally featured the Nazi-style salute. In fact, Hitler got it from the Italian fascists who much admired, that’s right, kids in America doing it while saying the Pledge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute (Man, if that doesn’t give you chills)

11. Is patriotic lip-service in place of, even at the expense of, actual civic engagement and action. (Symbolic patriotism)

12. Is uncritical patriotism at the expense of maintaining oversight over government. “My country right or wrong”, is just plain wrong. (Blind patriotism)

13. Considered by many Christians idolatry, taking the name of God in vain, swearing oaths.

14. Divides the nation (and the classroom) along religious lines. Only those represented by the Judeo-Christian “God” need apply as patriots (Ironic that “under God”, comes right before “indivisible.”)

15. Is hypocritical on the part of adults, bullying kids into doing something that adults themselves don’t do. (You pro-pledge adults, you say the Pledge every day, do you, and on a government mandated schedule?)

16. And last, but not least, pledging allegiance to a flag is just stupid.

More at http://members.cox.net/patriotismforall/

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