Drugs Vs Esoteric Teachings

 Newday (@Newday)7 years, 10 months ago

Dear HE community!

I would appreciate your thoughts and opinions on this:

For the sake of this topic let’s say that everyone in the HE community agrees that taking particular drugs can help humans reach higher planes or different worlds etc.

On the other hand, there are many esoteric teachings that may allow us to reach higher planes. The most obvious example could be through yoga and meditation practices.

The problem is that many (certainly not all!!!) of the esoteric teachings such as Kabbalah, Yoga, Sufism etc, openly mention that (from the sources which I have read) taking particular drugs can let you temporarily reach higher planes but they stress that it is a dangerous practice which can be damaging to your soul/aura/energy/whatever you believe in !

So I would like to know your thoughts on this:

Do you think that taking particular drugs can temporarily open up doorways but can be damaging to your spiritual growth in the long term? Is taking psychedelics like taking a dangerous shortcut?

or perhaps you think the complete opposite?

We will never find answers to such questions but it is good to share thoughts and ideas. So let me know!

Thank you all

October 28, 2013 at 11:09 am
Josh (213) (@reinvented2012) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@newday, I think it depends on the person. That’s my simple answer

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Di (239) (@dida) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@newday, It definitely is a shortcut. Is it dangerous? It all depends on a person. And if someone is faithful to the purpose of taking them and respect them. Use it as a “tool”.
And yes, it will definitely open up your mind into new perspective. Deep self/life exploration. It does take you deep down into rabbit hole of self-exploration.
And again-as longest you know the purpose of taking them and stay faithful to that.
If you don’t have a background on what psychedelics truly are nor are not mentally ready- I believe there is a possibility they can harm you in someway. (Mentally).

“Can it be damaging to your spiritual growth in the long term?” – If not psychedelics, I wouldn’t be where I am right now. I wouldn’t be probably even writing this right now , as I would have no interest in such subjects probably. They got me into Meditation, Yoga, questioning existence, healthier living-being, seeing clearly (third eye), ahh there is a lot that I could mention here.
The only “negative” thing for me- I haven’t been taking psychedelics for the past 1.5 years and it feels as if all that I have “gained” through the trips back in a day, I’m somehow losing. As if I got “unplugged” from the matrix and now the matrix life is pulling me back in. It’s as if the magic from the psychedelics is draining.
So I believe once you decide to explore psychedelics, you have to continue your path into exploring more, staying true to your self and living a life with that purpose of doing good to others and yourself. And/or you should/can use psychedelics continuously once in a while ( like once a month/year/) to make sure you don’t get fed up with all life bullshits/illusions/lies/etc.

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freeflow (1) (@Frequency) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

In my experience I’ve been told my previous use of weed to expand consciousness would only hinder me in the long run, but I’ve found that to not necessarily be true. I feel I should note that whenever I smoke weed anymore, I only feel a desire to do something that will advance me spiritually, whether that be meditation (which quickly changes from meditation to me laying there with a pen and pad writing down the insights being downloaded), tai chi or freestyling or whatever comes at the moment. I can’t (and don’t really want to…) have “regular” highs anymore. It just isn’t appealing…I do kind of wish I could just get couchlocked every once in a while without tripping out, though. Whatever…as my roommate says: you win some, you win some.

Back to the point…I try and record (or at least remember, which is tough) everything that happens when I’m high and then implement it into my daily life. Soberly, I think/feel back to the high states I’ve been in and essentially channel my high self into the sober me so that I can help pull myself up. Rather than that, however, it’s more just shifting myself into center, as opposed to pulling up.

Besides meditation, cannabis is the one tool that has helped me more than I consciously accredit to any other thing. She has shown me my deepest fears in ways that literally could have made me kill myself over–not out of sorrow, but fear. She has helped bring me to heights that give me a goal in sight to reach for and done so with elegance. In helping push me to these extremes, both positive and negative, she has helped me form a foundation for both where I stand and where I can go.

One important thing to realize is that anywhere you go high, you can go sober if you work at it. That’s why if you want to advance spiritually in altered states, you have to make your “normal state” an altered state. Don’t get caught in the wheel where you believe drugs do things to you you can never do. It takes work, but it’s possible. <—I want to say this only applies to a certain degree, but then I think of Shaolin monks and want to say that it's true, period.

***Another note. I can't smoke more than a couple times a week. I don't want to smoke more than a couple times a week. The last few times I have done so I ended up getting sick. It got to a point that I was so sensitive to weed that *literally* as soon as I thought about it, my nose started running and my throat got sore. I truly believe cannabis is a spiritual gift mothered by the planet and is not to be abused. Thank her before, during and after use and ask her what she feels she can help you with. You won't be disappointed.

—–

So, if you don't feel like reading all that, my answer is as follows:

I agree with Hutch.

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Newday (17) (@Newday) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@dida, Thank you for your very detailed comment.
Having taken psychedelics myself, I totally agree with you that they can open up your mind and make you more aware. Why do you think then many choose to take the long route by not taking drugs? for example many yoga practioners? Do you think that is because psychedelics can expose some people to too much stuff about our existence all at once which can be basically too much for them to handle?

I have a question for you…If you could go back in time and not start taking any drugs at all, would you do it?

Psychedelics have made me become a much more aware person but also a very sad one…Because I think a lot and I know that it is all a lie/illusion (as you said!).Unlike the majority of the society, I don’t live for the weekend, getting drunk, christmas or shopping anymore…does that make sense? Do you not think it would have been better to live an illusion and be happy? ( it is a bit off topic I know!)

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freeflow (1) (@Frequency) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

I guess my post was kind of (and by kind of, I mean 100%) aimed towards weed and not other psychedelics. Only “psychedelic” I’ve taken and gotten high from was acid once, and that was before the spiritual stuff started happening. When I don’t smoke weed for some time (a few weeks) and then get high, my highs are more like acid trips than stoner highs. I guess that’s why I posted that whole thing here. If you want that to happen, you should stop smoking for a couple weeks, throw out all the BS people say about how your highs should and shouldn’t be, and get as high as you want on as little as you want to smoke. It’s not hard once you do it.

ONE more thing, I promise. The most prolonged expanded state of consciousness I recall myself being at was two summers ago when I started my awakening and was going spiritually bananas. I meditated like crazy and my highs were IN-SANE. So, seriously, expand your baseline level of consciousness and you exponentially expand your high level of consciousness. This last paragraph got me excited!

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Newday (17) (@Newday) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@frequency, I have read the long version of your post and I am so glad you mentioned weed!

Unfortunately weed is the only type of drug that I am not particularly keen on. It makes me paranoid and hungry :( However, I know that does not mean that everyone get like that on weed. I know other people who take weed for spiritual reasons and they basically have similar experiences as yours. On the other hand my housemates used to abuse (used to smoke it 24/7) and they have lost it.

I am glad you have mentioned weed because it just made me realise that if you take any natural drug such as weed, lsd etc purely for recreational uses it can majorly f**k you up.

It seems like you had some amazing experiences on weed, I wish weed would like me a bit more!

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freeflow (1) (@Frequency) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@newday, it’s actually paranoia that kicked off my spiritual awakening. I had regular stoner highs at first and then I would each time get more and more paranoid until I literally thought everyone was conspiring to kill me. It sounds stupid and I knew how stupid it sounded even while it was happening, but it was as if the thoughts were bombarding me from a place outside of me.

You say you wish she liked you a bit more…I think the thing is you need to like you a bit more. Once I allowed the fear to be there and not worry about what would happen, it disappeared. A few months later, while I was sober, actually, I was gifted with the insight as to why I manifested the paranoia in the first place. That insight told me so much about my character and why I’ve acted how I have throughout my life.

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Newday (17) (@Newday) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@frequency, So are you saying that I should not fight the paranoia?

Do you usually smoke weed in social settings or on your own?

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trippyrizzle (10) (@rizzle) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

you cant depend on the entheogenic substances. you have to understand that the information is already inside of you, you already know these things. drugs can make you realize that this knowledge exists, they dont give you the information.

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freeflow (1) (@Frequency) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@newday, I’m saying the LAST thing you want to do is fight the paranoia. Just allow it to be and it will dissipate. You attract that which you repel.

I smoke both in social and private settings. When I had less control, private was better, even though that sometimes got too intense. When in social settings, it definitely has to be around people I’m VERY comfortable with and doing things I want to do. If not, I seem to fall into the pit of over-analyzing to the point where I don’t say a word because every thought is interpreting the external reality in some light that I do not like. However, you can get out of there once you step in, and when you do get out of that state and back into your own energy, things are awesome.

It’s like, when you’re alone, you’re downloading energy and when you’re with others, you’re uploading energy. What you have to do is allow it ALL to come through, though. Any part that has resistance will bottleneck until it blows, which, I suppose could manifest as paranoia, or any other thing viewed as negative.

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alephant (61) (@maanskyn) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

Esoteric teachings aren’t the ‘long route’. Nor are drugs a ‘shortcut’. All these words you use imply a destination when there isn’t one.

Stop looking and it’ll probably turn up.

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Anonymous (0) (@) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@newday, “Psychedelic experience is only a glimpse of genuine mystical insight, but a glimpse which can be matured and deepened by the various ways of meditation in which drugs are no longer necessary or useful. If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen…”
— Alan Watts, (Joyous Cosmology Prologue, 2nd ed. 1970).

Although I agree with most of what Alan Watts says here I think psychedelics is A LOT more than just a glimpse. I think a great analogy which I’ve used a few times is driving to work instead of walking. To reach a “higher” consciousness you could use psychedelics which is quick like a car or you could meditate and that is comparable to walking to work. Also, you drive to work with your car but than you get out and start working. You don’t stay and continue to use your car likewise you should start applying what you learn from your psychedelic use not just continue to use it.

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alephant (61) (@maanskyn) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@stevenv, I think that’s good, although potentially misleading given that a car has a destination (somewhere else).

Simpler to say that altered states are just that: states – temporary by definition.

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alephant (61) (@maanskyn) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

…like the United States. Nice and temporary. So we can all relax.

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Di (239) (@dida) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@newday, I really don’t know what answer give you on this questions as I ask this myself sometimes. As I listened to many spiritual masters ( Mooji, Osho…) they seem to be NOT against the drugs, but they do seem to follow the natural flow. ( If I find the videos, I will send them to you).
Up to this day I’m trying to figure out psychedelics- what purpose do they REALLY bring, are they meant to be there to help us reach certain states of consciousness and help us understand the purpose of life more. It’s like an unstoppable race of thoughts/questions. Or is this a little trap….Like the “apple” from Adam and Eve…and we were never meant/supposed to try it. ( hehe, i just had that kind of vision of it one day).
And as for Yogis, monks etc. , perhaps they have already naturally achieved that state through meditation or such, that they don’t feel the need of adding any substances to their practices. Although, I have read somewhere, that supposedly monks take small amounts of MDMA during their meditation. Interesting.

“Do you think that is because psychedelics can expose some people to too much stuff about our existence all at once which can be basically too much for them to handle?”- You put it very well. And those were my thoughts when I started waking up to the truths of life. And I also believe that thats the main reason why people are afraid to take psychedelics at all or meditate and go deep down into the depths of themselves to discover the hidden treasures.
I myself struggle with that fear sometimes. That I might just find out to much and wont be able to handle it all in such environment of untrue people ( society,media, etc).

I definitely don’t regret my choice on taking psychedelics. And I will definitely choose to take them again if I had to go back in time and had same choice.
I just know that I have a purpose now. That there is a treasure awaiting on a self-discovery-latter. And my purpose is to keep climbing that latter until i reach the top.
It opened up many doors for me. Even though I feel a little bit “drained” at the moment , since I haven’t tripped for a while (as i mentioned) and had been going through some personal harder times. I just feel that I need to make a bigger progress on my spiritual journey. I feel it calling me. And I just dont know which direction to go- Stick to psychedelics or meditation.
I want to continue with psychedelics, it’s just that my only option now is to take them by myself. ( I lost contact with my partner, and we were guiding , holding each others backs through our psychedelic journeys). And im just afraid for some reasons to trip on my own. So im pretty much trying to figure that out and go over my fear.

I can resonate with you so much! :) It’s as if im reading my own thoughts, feelings as I read your post. Especially here- “Psychedelics have made me become a much more aware person but also a very sad one…Because I think a lot and I know that it is all a lie/illusion (as you said!).Unlike the majority of the society, I don’t live for the weekend, getting drunk, christmas or shopping anymore…does that make sense? Do you not think it would have been better to live an illusion and be happy? ( it is a bit off topic I know!)”

I feel the same way. If looking at myself from the outside, I might seem to become a more serious, “sad”, mad person, but from the inside I feel much more at peace then before. I feel clear, healed.
Althoug, to be honest, I can’t really remember how it was/how I was before I “woke up” through psychedelic usage. Hm pretty interesting as I think about it now. Do you have that too?
And yes, I think a lot and question reality/myself a lot. But I guess it’s pretty cool. I got something to do and I like that little “exploration Quest” :)

I have read a post on HighExistence once, that went something like this “imagine how your life would be now if you have never taken psychedelics. What kind of person would you “REALLY” be at the moment” and this got me thinkin ALOT up to this day. I didn’t really like that statement as it made me feel bad inside. That maybe I would be a completely different person. The one I should be from the beginning?
But then I dont like to think this way. It gives me negative vibes lol.
I believe everything happens for a reason and serves us certain purpose.

And I feel you on ” I dont live for the weekend, get drunk, shop, holidays…” That’s what “changed” about me to. Or perhaps was awakened heh.
But Im trying to see it in positive way. Now, I feel like im creating my little world. Of my dreams, skills, imagination… I just have to give more passion and energy into all this.
Plus I think it’s a good thing that you dont feel like getting drunk anymore, living for the weekend like EVERYONE else, goin shopping or celebrating christmas. It’s ALL a routine that we all need to break free from and focus on life’s real important priorities.
It’s all for the benefits to media, society and all those evil people on top. Eh…
Those routines are here to make us feel “comfortably numb” and literally live as robots, or computer programs that are controlled by someone else and we are not living to our true potentials. And the possibilities are endless.

Ah…as always, I have SOO much I wish I could share and write down , but language seems as a huge limitation ( and in my case , English too , as its my second language).

And if I think that it would have ben better to live an illusion and be happy?”
Idk, that brings it back to my question ” how would our lifes look if we never taken psychedelics”.
We don’t know that. But pretty much with this knowledge we have, we can easily assume and figure.
But if I would like to live an illusion and be happy?
Hm…I think I prefer where I am right now (even if it might seem harder at some point) Why? Because I believe that sooner or later everyone of us will have to face the truth. I believe that this is the big purpose and secret of life. That’s why maybe we die and the come back again. To keep the self discovery until we reach that point. I dont know. The questions could go on and on…
But also why we might feel that the illusion life would be better/happier is because the bigger % of people is still unconscious/ not awake and living a zombie life. So they have their own little world , created by societies etc, that seems to be a hell lot of fun life. They just follow the rules and feel safe. They are afraid to step out of box, because it seems unsafe and they will be lost if they have noone to “control them”.
So WE- the awakened ones, feel pretty lonely , as there is still not many people with higher awareness. (even though there is a huge progress! and there seems to be so many more people awakening). And I bet that if life would be like it was in 60’s , where everyone lived the same, one, TRUE purpose , we wouldn’t ask questions like ” would it be better to live an illusion?”. Because we would have each other, we wouldn’t feel left out. You know what I mean?

Sorry this is long, but I enjoy expressing myself on this website, as I myself don’t really have anyone to talk to about all this :) So im glad there is so many like minded people on this forum that are open to share their ideas and questions :)

So by summing it up, I feel that psychedelic are definitely a door opener. But the true journey really starts if we decide to enter them or not. And of course we should enter. But not many stay truthful and faithful to that path. They don’t understand the bigger picture of the purpose that these plants give us, so they decide to either give up and come back to the old life-style or use these plants to gain the “evil power”.
So,in my opinion, to keep sanity in you and don’t go crazy or become unable to handle the experience you gained through psychedelic experience, one should continue with any kind of spiritual practice. Either if it’s continuing with psychedelics, meditation, yoga, sport, goodwill, ANYTHING that suits you.

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Di (239) (@dida) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@stevenv, “Psychedelic experience is only a glimpse of genuine mystical insight, but a glimpse which can be matured and deepened by the various ways of meditation in which drugs are no longer necessary or useful. If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen…”
– Alan Watts, (Joyous Cosmology Prologue, 2nd ed. 1970).

This quote of his is amazing! :) Makes so much sense!

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Newday (17) (@Newday) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@maanskyn, I certainly did not mean to imply that and everyone knows that spiritual growth is a process with no destination.

Many esoteric teachings say that taking psychedelics are bad for you and I wanted to know HE community thoughts on that. I did not ask how to reach a certain plane/state/destination!!

but thanks.

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Anonymous (0) (@) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@newday, Do I benefit from using psychedelics? Is the right question to ask. Because it’s all about personal experience anyways.

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alephant (61) (@maanskyn) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@newday, Maybe the esoteric teachings that warn against psychedelics do so precisely because psychedelic experiences can be misinterpreted as showing us an “other side” to break through to. I think there comes a point when they can become misleading.

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secretagentpeter (81) (@secretagentpeter) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

All i do is cannabis.
Lately It hasn’t been any fun. It’s become a regular thing like brushing my teeth.
I stopped thinking about it or enjoying it.
I got sick recently and I got off the herb and when I got over it (today) I started again.
I felt amazing, it’s all a balancing act. But the again isn’t everything?
I skipped all the other comments because I’m a punk douchebag who’s feeling lazy at the moment. After reading the top I already had something to say.
So here ya go!

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josephm (772) (@josephm) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@newday, i believe in the study and application of spiritual sequences to alter the energy field of which is intended.

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Newday (17) (@Newday) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@dida,
Dear Di !
This is a bit of a late reply, but I need to reply to this as I can honestly say that I too, resonate with what you saying!

What you mentioned about monks taking MDMA before meditation is interesting. In my opinion it is a very synthetic drug. Like you know that it is the release of the serotonin that is making you to feel the way you feeling (happy, euphoric), I would not think of it as a spiritual drug.

I cannot remember the person I used to be prior to taking psychedelics. All I know is that I have so much more compassion for everything and everyone in life. And I know that we are all the same and equal, this has made me stop talking to certain friends as one thing I hate the most is snobbery. So yes, all in all I think it has made me a much better person, more mature (I’d like to think!) and deep.

I do have a few friends who take psychedelics, but mainly for recreational purposes i.e. raves etc. I really do not see a point in that. I am sure that you will be able to find legitimate groups that use psychedelics for self-development/spiritual/etc purposes. It does not have to be illegal either. For example, I do not think ayahuasca rituals are illegal (that is something I am not yet ready for though haha).

I would like to be your friend on HE !

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H.W. Hawkins (18) (@WhiteOak) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@newday, While I believe that psychedelics are catalysts for spiritual transformation, that doesn’t mean that everyone is ready for the change of perspective. For some, their egoic structure is ingrained that they cannot relinquish them purely with psychedelics, and if they try they experience great stress due to a bout of cognitive dissonance. So I personally views these substances as solvents for dissolving egoic structures by a way of allowing the user to see new perspective. This is much like being able to see that you’re culture isn’t the only way of life after traveling to a new country and immersing yourself in the new culture. I’m currently writing a research paper on this!

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Newday (17) (@Newday) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@whiteoak,
Great stuff ! I don’t think that such people will necessarily experience great stress. It is true that bad trips are more common amongst people who can’t let go of their ego etc. However, I know people who regularly take psychedelics solely for recreational purposes, they enjoy their trips but do not really use them as a tool for transformation/ bettering themselves etc.

I hope your research paper is coming up well !

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H.W. Hawkins (18) (@WhiteOak) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@newday, Great point, mind set is of course decisive to the way your trip will go (along with setting). And thank you very much! I’ll be posting it on HE when I’m done!

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