dumb question about free will

heysteve (@dumb) 7 years, 1 month ago

If the unchanged past could have happened only in the way it did, then the past is deterministic. If the unchanged past could have been different, then the past is random. If random is not free will, then how did the past happen with free will?

August 4, 2015 at 1:37 pm
Dhyan (37) (@Dhyan) 7 years, 1 month ago ago

Free  willy!.  What  is will?  The drive  to reach  a goal?.  We talk about free will,  like we know what it is.  I don’t :-) 

heysteve (5) (@dumb) 7 years, 1 month ago ago

<div>Hello Dhyan</div><div>
</div><div>I’m not smart, but I’ll try my best :D</div><div>
</div><div>Will is voluntariness. If something done to you is something that you don’t want, then it is done to you against your will (involuntarily). If you want something then it is your will and if you do not want something it is against your will.</div><div>
</div><div>Free will is an idea that we are the sole author of our actions. Outside influences do not affect us, it is only ourselves that are responsible for everything we do.  </div><div>
</div><div>It is the idea that we could have done otherwise at any given time in our existence and why we didn’t is because … well it’s really kind of a mystery to me. Like what shapes a human being is nature (genetics), nurture (the environment) and magic (the free will).</div><div>
</div><div>And everyone seems to agree with not having a free will most of the time, like you break a bone it hurts or tuna tastes like tuna even if one wishes it didn’t. Our body starts healing damaged parts or keeps the heart beating without our consent. We didn’t choose our parents or where or when we were born.</div><div>
</div><div>Yet we take credit for the “good stuff”. Tuna tastes bad, well thats just life. I did something amazing, thats not just life, thats me being amazing. Other times we put blame on people for doing something poorly as if they could’ve have done better, but they just decided not to… just to be a inconsiderate? Why..?</div><div>
</div><div>I don’t know. I’m dumb, so I need someone to explain to me how this works.</div>

Dhyan (37) (@Dhyan) 7 years, 1 month ago ago

Hi.  Your  not dumb,  I can’t  explain  free will.  There  are processes  like beating of your heart  or breathing  that happens.   Objects fall,  trees  grow.  If there  is a good surrounding  they grow faster,  if there’s a storm  they might break. 

  We have free will or the idea,  in a lot of situations.  But it’s limited ,  we step on grass,  not on flowers.  We don’t  hit people we like.   But many  choices  are limited  by,  culture,  society  etc.  And our own conditionings  and how we look at things.    As there are no sharp  settings  what freedom is,  I can’t  define  or there is free will  as I am limited  in my viewpoint. 

  I guess  thoughts  can’t  answer  big questions.    I like warm wind stroking my skin,  or I like the sound  of leafs  or water.    I can do a inner research  on why I like  or just accept  that I like it    greetsz 

heysteve (5) (@dumb) 7 years, 1 month ago ago

Hello again :)

I am dumb, the opposite of smart. Smart people can receive partial data and somehow complete the data. I can’t do that. Religion for example, no matter how much I study and read upon it, it makes no sense to me. It’s not a matter of not trying, it’s a matter of trying and still being unable to fill in the gaps by myself. Im often told that these gaps are called “common sense” and no further elaboration is given.

You say
>>I can’t  explain  free will.
>>We have free will
>>As there are no sharp  settings  what freedom is,  I can’t  define  or there is free will  as I am limited  in my viewpoint.

Freedom in this case is the opposite of causality. Causality is the relation between an event (the cause) and a second event (the effect), where the first event is understood to be responsible for the second.

you say
>>We don’t hit people we like
Is this an absolute? You would never, ever hit a person you would like? Because I guess that could be free will. But if you can imagine there being even one scenario where that might be a possible outcome then that is causality.

What if you have to slap a person you like to stop being hysterical? Or the only way to protect people you care about in some absurd situation is to make them hate you and the fastest way to do that is to hit them? Because thats causality, a circumstance that changes everything.

Freedom is freedom from causality, freedom from circumstances. Freedom means full responsibility as you are the sole author of your actions. If you did poorly, it means that you chose to do poorly and there are no circumstances.

If we’re not free from circumstances, being proud of our achievements is the same as being proud of having a brain tumour. Achievements were only possible because of all the circumstances that lead to it. Similarily being ashamed of failures is the same as being ashamed of having being born deaf.

Shame, pride, hatred, punishments, none of them make sense without free will. So I really need to find where free will is located, because otherwise the world we live in might built on faulty premises from the ground up.

Dhyan (37) (@Dhyan) 7 years, 1 month ago ago

Hi.  I agree  there  are many assumptions.  Wich is natural as even this language  we use is part  of a collective.   And your not!  Dumb.  My English  is to limited  to have a conversation  on this level,  ,  as this is really  delicate.    So I apologize :-) 

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