Fiction Thinking, He/She/It's *Literally* Hitler, and the Migrant Crisis

S (@tictacfanman) 6 years, 4 months ago

Think about this for a second: how many times have you heard someone, or something, compared to Hitler or Nazis? Too many
times to count right? This “argument” has invaded (lol punz) nearly
every discussion. You can hear triggered SJWs claiming that Trump is
“literally Hitler,” or you may hear others say that any hint of
traditionalism or nationalism automatically implies “Neo-Nazism.” The
funny thing is, its fiction, it’s a fallacy. *Literally,* this is a logical
fallacy, Reductio ad Hitlerum, coined by German-American philosopher Leo
Strauss in 1951. Before I go further into why this prevalent fallacy is such a
problem, lets talk about Scott Adams. Scott Adams is known for Dilbert, a
popular comic strip that nearly every American has read at some point, or at
least heard of. Thanks to Mike Cernovich from DangerandPlay, I discovered Adams
lesser known blog. Adams writes about a variety of topics, such as various
social critiques, mindset advice, and information regarding persuasion. One of
my favorite articles he has written is “Are You a Fiction Thinker?”
In this article, Adams talks about the dangers that reading or consuming
fiction can have on society (butt-hurt fiction fan quickly scrolls to call me a
idiot in 3…2…). Now that sounds drastic, and I am not of the opinion that
reading fiction is a negative thing at all, but I happen to agree with his main
premise: fiction can cause a limit one’s thinking and perception. He opens his
post with: “If every new idea you encounter reminds you of a movie, song,
or novel that you have consumed in the past, it might be holding you back.
Movies and books form a mental structure in your head of what is possible and
what is not. But these are artificial structures based on the rules of fiction.
They do not necessarily represent what is practical or possible in the real
world.” He writes that if one were to come of with a potential solution to
world hunger, but it reminded the masses of “The Hunger Games,” the
solution would likely be shut down before any through deliberation. However,
the hunger games DID NOT ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

For myself, I often find myself limiting certain visions of what I can do based on what I read, and to take it beyond what Adam’s wrote, I see it when I read non-fiction (such as blogs) as well. When I read from certain authors about how they have achieved “X,” sometimes I tend to think in absolutes, and believe that I have no other means to reach a similar end. Sounds silly just thinking about it, but I used to do it a hell of a alot, and it made things quite sad (insert pouty face).  

My growing concern
lies with the European migrant crisis. As more and more fighting aged men from
various third world Islamic countries pour in, more Europeans are placed in
greater danger. These men have been known to rape women, molest children, and
attack journalists. Many European citizens are faced with the difficult
decision to move, fight back, give in, etc. Some worry that this landscape will
slowly but surly succumb to Shariah Law itself. I am happy to see that many,
such as the “Hooligans of Belgium” have started standing up for their
countries, and that a resistance is forming in this meta-political war.
However, I am deeply concerned that as more people speak out/fight this, those
who are politically correct will try to mark these nationalist movements not
with the mark of the beast, but with the mark of “Hitler,”
“Fascism” “Nazism.” These same “educated” people
ignore the fact that they are using a fallacy to argue, and yet claim this is logical.
Fiction thinking. They will try to silence those who oppose the extreme
ideology that comes from these Islamic states under the pretense that “the
opposition are *literally* Hitler.” In particular, I am concerned for
German citizens, as the media would surly have an easy time lighting them up
with this “u guise r naziz” bullshit. Any sign of resistance against
the influx of migrants to Germany will definitely have this fictitious thinking
nipping (clawing) at its heels.


What are
other examples of “fiction thinking” that you guys have seen?

Any in particular
you participated in yourselves?

Any that you see
with increasing frequency?

Thoughts on the
pervasiveness of Hitler fallacy?

Think I jerk off to
pictures of Hitler’s stache’ to avoid my Islama-phobic night-terrors? Let me know

P.S. While opinions
regarding the migrant crisis are welcome, please refrain from turning this into
a discussion about “not all Muslims/ur a racizt/islam is kind Sam,”
as you can discuss that elsewhere (check out Elion’s thread “Spiritual Coexistence”). Also, just because I mentioned Trump does NOT mean this is the place to tell us how much you *hate* him or how excited you are for the wall (fingers crossed). Do NOT turn this into some dumb discussion about religion, use the search bar above if you would like do that instead. This is a discussion about fiction thinking, aka faulty thinking patterns, with a dash of migrant crisis/Hitler/trollface sprinkled on top. 

April 8, 2016 at 3:56 pm
S (102) (@tictacfanman) 6 years, 4 months ago ago

I apologize for the shitty format (it looks shitty on my monitor). I edited this multiple times, perhaps I am just a big dummy. Throw on your grandma’s bifocals and try reading it anyway. 

Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 6 years, 4 months ago ago

The fiction thinking idea is really interesting, and it’s certainly true that the fiction we consume colors our perception (and consequently our reality) and what we believe is true or possible, but I don’t think it stops there. True stories do the same thing (biographies of successful people, the experiences of our friends, etc), so does content from “reliable” sources (as you mentioned with the blog reading). Anything we consume, especially when we consume it often, colors our thinking. We are so much more impressionable than we’d like to believe! Absorb something a lot and it shapes you and the way you think.

In regards to the migrant crisis, I am concerned about it. I have experienced what you’ve mentioned here about trying to bring up this problem (not even in a discriminatory or absolutist or overtly negative way) and question the solutions that have been happening ,and the backlash has been ridiculous.
The “not all muslims/ur a racizt” response is all too real. It makes one hesitant to even broach the subject. In fact I’ve stopped bringing it up.
Even my most intelligent and thoughtful friends seem to have a packaged response for logical questions pertaining to the matter, and many other matters (I see you tagged “transphobia” for this thread and I’ve also experienced packaged over-the-top ‘UR JUST INTOLERANT’ responses for those questions as well).

Anyway, I don’t have a solution for these issues, but the fiction thinking idea got me pondering some stuff. I think everyone would benefit from absorbing less and producing more (does wonders for creativity and well-being in general), and also being less afraid to ask and discuss the questions that could be labeled “intolerant”. For so long I just put these questions out of my mind because I was so indoctrinated with the idea that they are “wrong” and “intolerant”. The scope of what fits into that category just seems to grow and grow and it is beginning to sound like satire.

And yes, I think you jerk off to Hitler’s mustache at night.

S (102) (@tictacfanman) 6 years ago ago

First of all, I am sorry this is so late haha (over three months late). 

“I think everyone would benefit from absorbing less and producing more (does wonders for creativity and well-being in general), and also being less afraid to ask and discuss the questions that could be labeled “intolerant”.”

Definetly. I actually thats a big part of the problem. Looking back, I find that I consistently felt stagnant when all I really did was consume. Reading so much information also leads one to never really take the adequate time to apply it, thus nothing is ever learned. Which is why I might write a thread on auditing one’s time, as I genuinely believe most members mental hangups are a result of time being spent where it shouldn’t be (i sound like a disgruntled parent haha)

Which is also a big reason why I don’t like how much members of this site cling to certain ideas like “mindefulness” or a few quotes or spiritual texts as if they apply to every little aspect of their lives. Reading into a lot of that often lead me to think I was making progress, when really I was just acquiring a new vocabulary (yes I am being a bit harsh haha). In threads such as that “Disconnected from physical world” (forgot actual name), i remember the OP said that the spiritual texts/practices/whatever led him to feel empty. To me, that is a great big sign saying “STOP!” Put that shit down! And yet it seems that most people here would justify this experience in the name of spiritual growth. It seems like an obvious form of fiction thinking that occurs on the forum, maybe I’m wrong though. 

It sort of reminds me of aquaintances who told me they learn so much from psychedellics, when their lives don’t look a lot different than when they started. If no actions actually change, than what did you truly learn? Clearly your mental model of the world didn’t change all that much, because if it did, wouldn’t actions (“producing”) follow suit? Replace psychedillics with “spiritual texts” and I think we would have a picture of many memebers of the forum. 

Now I am not sure if I am even completely on topic, but the comment will stand. I also want to let voth you and @manimal that I really appreciate both responses, and want to thank both of you for your contributions to this forum. Back when I lurked hardcore, i always tuned in when I saw your writings, figuring there would be good stuff. 


PS: lets keep a lid of the hitler stache thing, eh?

Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 6 years, 4 months ago ago

Great thread.

However, I don’t think the west world is really under threat from these current crises. It’s the “convergence of catastrophies” (google the concept if you haven’t heard of it before) before a new age of enlightenment. Demoralising and destabilising mind weapons don’t grant long-term control, but rather it tends to weed out the targets making them fewer but stronger.

Those sorry softened west world fools supporting multiculture and feminism and other ideological manure are simply volunteering for natural selection. This has happened so many times before, especially in the west world. Remember when Russia succcumbed to socialism? It tore them down, the Soviet collapsed completely, but from the ashes rose a stronger force.
Similar things could be said about Germany’s struggles with nazism and neo-liberalism.

What all these old extremisms of history have in common with our modern progressive milieu, is that they’re all ideological weapons branching out from the core venom of marxism. Its utopian facade is a perfect example of fictional thinking.

I think the main reason that the Hitler fallacy, and similar cheap argument tools, live on is because people give in to it. When someone pulls a PC script, or other canned false argument, people yield to it. Someone calls another Hitler, and the accused person gives in and tries to defend or justify. This is why politicians get away with just trash-talking each other and boasting. And it’s why so many guys think you cannot win against a woman’s infantile emotional “arguments”.

Deceivers and fools want the intelligent discussion to end. They want to shut people up.
The righteous and wise want discussion to continue, knowing that the opposition will run out of points and reveal their lies.

The whole power of false arguments stems from people going along with it.
Reacting to such lowly tactics is an act of fictional thinking.

Don’t give them that power. Just scoff and go on, obliterate them. It works.

S (102) (@tictacfanman) 4 years, 3 months ago ago

Bump. I need more HE clout.

flower21 (18) (@flower21) 4 years, 2 months ago ago

Your point of view has a right to exist for sure

I am partially with you, taking into consideration that I am not very interested in politics 

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