Hello brothers and sisters,
I’m not sure if this is a repost, or if any of you have heard of this guy, Boyle. He lived without money for 3 years, and then wrote a book about it. You can read it for free here:
It touches on where our obsession of money comes from, where it is taking us, how we got to this point by our fear of oneness and nature, and a lot of other topics HEthens enjoy. So enjoy, let me know what you think!
Peace to you,
Unfortunately humanity is long past the point of being able to not have a currency. We will pretty much always need a way to exchange goods and services, and money is the perfect for that. However, what can absolutely be changed are the completely arbitrary, literally made up rules that govern banking and economics.
@drakonerythros, We need money, I totally agree with that. But what needs to change is people’s perception of money.
We see it as an end goal, as a thing to be aquired. But it’s not money we need, it’s what money buys that we need. And too often we sacrifice what we need (air quality, clean water, forests….) for what we think we need (money.)
@imtheghostlight, The common mentality of humanity generally revolves around resources and consumption, talking about a system of free resources is still fundamentally that same mentality of consumption, is it not?
I believe in humanity mastering the universe and developing tech and practical knowledge that forges human existence into its optimal situation. A situation that maximizes happiness, be that pleasure, passion, love, enjoyment, comfort, etc. But you have to also keep in mind that the best situation would be of minimal consumption.
The thing is; we need those happiness factors in concert with sustainability, you want the best conditions for life which means progressive improvement of humanities functional abilities, harnessing all within our sphere of influence to the betterment of all, a huge factor in that ideal is minimal negative impact.
You want the best of necessity while neutralizing want, or substituting outlandish wants with environmentally-economically efficient and renewable, yet completely satisfactory, alternatives.
I do say experiences are worth far more than material extravagance, people with a culture of consumption of doing things they enjoy rather than possessing things they like is a massive key to that ideal, experiences are generally renewable and low on consumption of resources (of course depending exactly on what you are experiencing).
@imtheghostlight, he makes some good points but others I completely don’t agree with. I’m looking for a little more out of life than wearing burlap sacks, growing a folkie beard, getting piss-drunk and swerving down the road in an ox-cart.
As 7 Seconds once said…..”Regress? No way!”
Thanks for the input – I think I was not clear enough with my intention though.
I personally, believe that humanity is capable of producing a society without money. There are ways that everyone would be dependent on each other, and all work is done voluntarily – which is in this book he wrote. If you think about it, (at least in my opinion) most negative thought and action comes from the illusion of being “owed” something. But, if we were forever in each other’s debt because we all work for each other’s well being, we continue our interpersonal relationships and deepen them. Yes, there could be the man who refuses to work, or the man who steals – but if we ran this kind of society, the only person it would hurt is the individual, and that is expanded upon in the book, so don’t take my paraphrased version of it too literally.
Here is the author on ted talks. he actually is an economist, and describes a successful economy not as equality in monetary value, but a system in which we all have our needs met, which is the important thing. People tell us we need this paper to make “even trades” but we really don’t. What if we just forgot our egos and cared for each other honestly?
@imtheghostlight, Life could well be less about owning material and more about enjoying experiences. I have this idea that if you have all you need and can have anything you want as long as it is renewable and that its impact on the environment and society are manageable, then everything else we do would be to improve ourselves, enjoy life and to improve the situation of humanity.
The thing is; there are a lot of things people can experience that are renewable and their impact on the environment and society are manageable, but they still need a significant amount of work to produce. Somethings that can add to the overall fulfillment of life, but their difficulty in providing enough for everyone at any time is not practical.
The idea that “if you do not have enough gum for the whole class then you cannot have any yourself” comes to mind. Although in spirit I agree with a non-materialistic world that doesn’t value anyone over anyone else, I think certain things, for the sake of efficiency, are better left to a measure of contribution to decide who would get priority.
Basically, while one group of people work hard to provide something for humanity, they have no time due to their being occupied by their work, and people who have free time due to not having to work get to enjoy what the workers cannot. Of course you could presume that they all take turns in such an arrangement, but not all lines of work can function that way, some require specialized and uncommon skills, things that most people generally are not cut out to do.
It creates inequity and basically a slave system, or a system where the best people for a job have no tangible motivation to the work, you are basically relying on a philosophical idea that a person should work incredibly hard and never enjoy life so that others do not have to work and can constantly enjoy life, because you have a duty to humanity to do it.
“It creates inequity and basically a slave system, or a system where the best people for a job have no tangible motivation to the work, you are basically relying on a philosophical idea that a person should work incredibly hard and never enjoy life so that others do not have to work and can constantly enjoy life, because you have a duty to humanity to do it.”
Ray, Just speculating, but…doesn’t this sound like how society is today? I know that I, personally, work for shit money, building other people’s dreams, for a low wage that doesn’t enable me to take any time off, and if I do I take a hit for it for sure (I’m fixing this soon, haha).
I’m not banking on people working incredibly hard and never enjoying life, I’m more describing a small society where everyone pitches in and helps with everything. People could have a specialty, and you could say that you “need” products that are manufactured in an industrial setting, but personally, I would rather live a short, fulfilling life than a long one that I won’t enjoy. Also, if we can find one way to do things, we can certainly find a second. There isn’t just one right answer to this huge question. Thanks for playing the devil’s advocate, I appreciate your thoughts Ray :) you should give the video a watch, though, or the book a read. Like I mentioned in my post, please don’t take my paraphrased version of his statement literally, because obviously a dude who already lives this lifestyle can describe it better than I.
Peace and love, ender
@imtheghostlight, For sure, the founder of this site, Jordan, is involved in Earthships and small self-sustained societies that work on that kind of principle. Here is a link https://www.highexistence.com/topic/update-on-valhalla-community-project-8712/
But yes, as I described basically is the current system, you do not want to trade one in for a clone. Getting past the ego of feeling you are owed is one thing, but on the large scale the world isn’t so black and white. It becomes a quality issue, not everyone has the same level of ability and it is ideal to have those who are best in their fields doing what they do as much as possible.
You really do not want to dilute the quality of product or service to even out the work load. You can manufacture surgeons but you will always have the elite surgeons who stand out above everyone else, and most people will want them at the knife, it becomes more than just a duty to humanity, we will be running our best ragged or we will be substituting them with our less than best.
At least at the moment, our best have good reason to be run ragged, they are compensated.