I think religion has taken gay people out of context; a reoccurring theme over religion is not to become subject to your desires and to keep them in perspective so they do not cause relevant harms against consent. This is a broad philosophy not specifically focusing on sexuality but also on material excess and exploitation of others in general.
As it applies to sex, it would include rape and those under the age of consent. But Jesus certainly pointed out not to see people as objects of sexual desire but respect them as the unique individuals they are. Again this occurs across humanity in all incarnations of sexuality, singling out gay people missing the point.
Then there is Hedonism, a lot of people think it is bad, and in the sense that people can become subject to their desires and see others as objects, a Hedonist culture can pose such threats to discipline, but consent is the big legitimiser and to interfere with the consenting lifestyles of people is actually a worse violation than the lifestyle choices they make.
Jesus came for sinners, and he didn’t treat them like crap, he showed them respect and in that respect he won their hearts and they became open to his teachings, so even if you see consenting acts as sin then unless the “sinners” respect you then it is your fault, it is your intolerance that is the true crime.
The most important scripture is John 13:34-35, where Jesus gives us the New Covenant, “A new Command I give unto you, love each other as I loved you, by this all will know you are my Disciples, that you have love from one to another”
This ultimately makes all laws irrelevant, all the Bible stands to do now is show people how Jesus loved people, and that includes the respect for “Sinners”. So the idea that the Bible stands as an authority for law enforcement is to fundamentally ignore the only real Command Jesus gave.
The Bible never has been a standard for laws.
Jesus himself said “Render onto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and render onto God what is God’s.” He never mentioned what the “best” form of government should be, and frankly probably didn’t care. God must know that humans will form any system for governance best suited to our needs.
Besides, as the Bible was flagrantly doctored by the late Roman Empire Christian priests, to say it is the “true” word of God is clearly false. People need to wake up and realise that Christianity is not “true” and is even today just the basic beliefs/subjective morals of the early Roman Catholic Popes and clerics.
The bible had some of the books taken out by the church. But, you can still find them and read them if you wish to. And the original Greek and Hebrew versions still exist today in its original form in many Museums. Which are also accessible to the public if they need to do some research.
Yeah it has been a standard for Law, for Israel, for a long time. Even today Jews obey both the Torah Laws and the Laws of the country they are in. The Torah is not just Law, it is also a mechanism for unity between the people and conveniently a way to direct the people by the standing powers that be.
I’m not against Judaism, people can believe what they want if they find comfort in it, I’m just saying there is a difference between the fundamental basis for Judaism and Christianity; call a spade a spade, if you prefer the Old Covenant then you are in Judaism, no matter how much you have an affinity for Jesus, saying you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour doesn’t make you Christian, accurately observing John 13:34-35 is.
I personally am not a fan of Theology, but I do like logic and I do appreciate natural values, separating the relevant from the irrelevant is not an easy thing.
But yes, Jesus did say that, the way I interpret it is with “The Kingdom of God is within you and all around you” justice and injustice reveal themselves and we know them when we see them, according to our own natural senses, but emotional compulsions and acquired knowledge can distort that sense, maybe even replace it, rather than serve and augment it.
“Caesar” to me is when knowledge replaces our natural sense of justice, and it decides right and wrong for us in its place.
In another sense; you obey the Laws of Caesar so he doesn’t bring the hammer down on you, but you also remain true to your sense, it just gets difficult if a Law of Caesar asks you to go against that sense, which is why a lot of early Christians were Martyred.
The reason the right wing religious conservatives care so much about the issue of homosexuality is that if they accept that being homosexual is NOT a choice then it makes a really good argument that GOD doesn’t exist.
Think about it, if God is responsible for creating all things, he wouldn’t create people to be homosexual and then condemn it. That is why these religious conservative nuts claim being gay is a choice, and try to send them to gay rehab an such. They can’t accept that being homosexual is something your born with and not a choice, if they do it brings forward a lot of hard questions. So it’s just easier to write being homosexual off as a sin and a choice rather than question the meaning and legitimacy of bible, and ultimately the existence of GOD.
Homosexuality is a choice, homo-erotic acts may make you feel aroused on the inside but you make the choice to get sodomized in the ass. All you have in life are choices they define your character. But choice is also driven by genes which dictate our brain chemistry and if we do not properly care for ourselves nutritionally we will have to do it physically by artificially stimulating the brain by acting out (which is NOT limited to homosexual acts, it includes any self destructive behavior).
I have also stumbled across a video in ‘that part of youtube’ where a man broke down the reason homosexuality is destructive for a civilization and its culture. At the arguments basics he links homosexuality with lower birth rates of the natural citizens. With the birth rates lowered there is only one way to replenish the population and that is immigration. The new immigrants are not assimilating but they are encouraged to keep their cultural identity in the name of ‘diversity’ which in turn creates civil unrest and mass migration. Also the majority of homosexuals are upper class citizens who do not have any kin to pass their inheritance to, and that brings down the strong foundation that this country was built on.
But don’t take my word for it, just take a look back in history and see what happens when the upper class becomes hedonistic deviants. the out look is verrrrry bleak.
That is a ridiculous argument. There are simply not enough homosexual people in our country to affect the birthrate so drastically that people from other countries would need to emigrate here. Homosexuals make up a very small percentage of our population, the effect on birthrate is negligible.
And what? “the majority of homosexuals are upper class citizens” You are just talking out of you ass with that. And what “foundation” that our country was built on has to do with inheritance?
People can be homosexual without a strong desire for sex. You don’t really understand homosexuals.
Homosexuality is as much a choice to us as what types of food you like are. You cannot choose to like broccoli, but you could build a tolerance to it. Is that all right with most people? No. They feel comfortable with what they like, and you cannot always change that.
If anything, either sexuality can become closer to Bisexual, but it’s never really touching. Many people like having what’s called an “elastic” sexuality, and that’s all right too, but the notion that it is a distinct choice is incorrect.
Why would anyone fight what you consider a “naturalness” of Heterosexuality, when their automatic disposition is Homosexuality? That would be stupid. It is not a real choice at all.
That fuzzy feeling you probably got over girls when you were a little kid? – Homosexuals feel fuzzy about the same sex when they’re little, in most cases.
I’m also sick of people bringing sodomy and eroticism into homosexuality as though it’s the entire defining characteristic of it. It is not. Many homosexuals find anal sodomy disgusting, and it seems as though you think they do not exist.
Not everybody is overly sexual. You need to realize that.
Only about 5% of any given population is estimated to be homosexual, and that is quite a high estimate in my opinion, but it’s still there.
The majority of homosexuals might be upper class because they have felt inwardly pressured, and to work harder and prove yourself could be a form of rebellion. I do not think it is true that the majority is upper class. The divide is probably similar to the general population, but it might have a greater number of outliers.
Stop linking hardcore Hedonism with Homosexuality. There are a number of Homosexuals out there who are practically hardcore ascetics.
True, and like I said, Jesus solved that by making the Bible introspective, not an authority for Law enforcement. People who enact the Laws of the Bible onto people are not really Christian, by the definition provided by Jesus himself, the are Judaists with an affinity for Jesus.
The Bible doesn’t prove God, people just want to believe and the Bible is a convenience for them, but Theology is culturally conditioned so the powerful can manipulate the people, Jesus made that obsolete also, people just didn’t get the memo because certain things are promoted about the Bible while others are left to fade.
In my opinion, Jesus uses that God stuff the way a speaker will use the chant “U.S.A” to an American audience, it gets their attention and appreciation, because the crowd loves the U.S.A/God, you will appeal to that love and win their hearts.
As it was; if you wanted to be counted a Jew then you had to obey the Torah Laws, but it seems if you want to be counted Christian you also have to obey the Torah Laws, no that is wrong; to be counted Christian you have to accurately observe John 13:34-35, not Torah Laws.
That is the real mistake they make. But yes, if God creates gays by nature, then condemns them, it is a pretty bad law, but then God also creates us with desires and condemns us when we indulge them, so I’d say the gay point you make doesn’t threaten anything, it has always been about discipline, gay or not.
The way the Torah Law was supposed to go was that all people are not allowed to indulge sexual relations until they are married, but obviously as gays are not allowed to get married they can never be allowed to indulge in sexual relations.
This is absolute bullshit anyway; back in the Old Testament men would visit Harlots (aka prostitutes) by definition that is indulging sexual desire outside of wedlock. Harlots were always around in Israel and obviously were used, Mary Magdalene was a Harlot and a Jew.
Basically women had to be virgins until they were married but men can bang Harlots at will, it is really pointing out how misogynist the Bible is if you ask me.
And that’s what it boils down to “Marriage is the Union between a Man and a Woman” or “A Man will leave his Mother and Father and Marry a Woman”. So there is no formal endorsement of gay marriage, but there is anti-sodomy; the story of Lot was about rape gangs that target men, personally I’d say it is more anti-rape than anti-gay, but that is how people choose to read it.
Then there was “Men who lay with Men as they would a Woman is a detestable thing to God” this was Paul, not Jesus, and Paul went about returning Christians to Old Covenant Law, contradicting Jesus but saying he was inspired by Jesus with the same tongue. Paul=False Prophet.
Gays in that time were referred to as Eunuchs. There were 3 types of eunuchs. A man who is castrated for sexual exploitation, a man whos spiritual endeavors keep him from having sex, and the last types were known as half-man, these were female dominate souls in the body of a man. When the bible talks about (male and female), you can bet that it has nothing to do with sexual orientation and everything to do with state of mind.