well..this is a long one..and part of it is another thread I posted before, I’m just adding on to it further though.
I’m simply going to use the term God, but I want to express the idea that God is the same term for many things from many different cultures. When most people think God, they immediately personify the idea, and get an image of some guy chillen out in space, keeping a watchful eye on us. Most people also think this ‘person’ judges us and has a prize for us if we do good, and a punishment for us if we do bad. I believe people have this conception now because of misunderstood metaphors. I like how the Hindu’s handle it, they have gods as metaphors, but there is One Brahman. And Brahman means ultimate reality and/or consciousness.
“Religion is misunderstood mythology.” -Joseph Campbell. (I suggest his books, and learning what mythology actually is)
When I first started to actually give a fuck about the world around me, I turned to books. Every week I had something new to read. Philosophy, quantum mechanics, the brain, religion, etc. After a little while I realized that half of what is out there contradicts the entire other half. There is numerous ways to explain the same thing. I turned my focus to figuring out what constitutes ‘fact’ and ‘truth’ how knowledge is obtained and its validity. It made me first look at our two predominant thought processes. Intuition and Rationality. For practicalities sake we’ll look at religion as intuition based and science as rationality based (although each obviously contain both) I went back and forth trying to figure out which thought processes is ‘stronger’ only to realize they both have equal merit, with the same limitations. That limitation would be language. When we discovered atoms and particles, scientists became aware of an issue.
“We wish to say something about the atomic structure, but our language can’t conceive it” -Bohr.
Scientists are well aware that our language is insufficient to describe the way things actually are, therefore everything we actually know is but an approximation of the actual truth. You can say the earth revolves around the sun, but that is only our best approximation, the reality of it is something marginally different. The same limitations are present in the intuitive approach. Mystics train their waking consciousness to be an intuitive consciousness. Take boxing for example. You are in the fight, and a crowd is around you. You aren’t deaf nor blind so you can see them in the corner of your eye, and you can hear them but never for a second is your brain distracted by it. It ‘numbs’ your sensory inputs. That is the intuitive consciousness. This is why tai chi and boxing is a powerful form of martial arts. Another reason why I started to think that intuition was stronger than rationality, because put up the best boxer in the world vs the best karate guy, and the boxer would wreck him. Karate isn’t learned very intuitively. Anyways, the act of making your intuitive consciousness the norm for your brain is a step towards enlightenment (and not everyone will achieve this. Not everyone can be a mystic, and not everyone can be a scientist) Enlightenment is that gaze into the absolute truth, or reality of things. They describe this as completely non-intellectual. You rather ‘see’ it. And even the word ‘see’ is misleading because there is no sensory input. These mystics have the same problem, and are also aware. Our language cannot comprehend or conceive these things. There have been different methods formed on both sides to get over this hurdle. Scientists use math (but greatly struggle with verbal interpretations), Hindu’s used mythology, Buddhists used paradoxes or koans, the Chinese used calligraphy, and the Japanese used poetry, specifically haiku’s. On a side note it makes me wonder if every religious document is our attempt to put absolute truth into words. It’s only an approximation of what really is of course, but probably the best we could do. Hindu’s specifically state this. Their gods, and metaphors aren’t actually what is, but are needed to express the thought.
How do we transcend this language limitation? As the Zen Buddhist would say, “Once you speak of something, you have missed the mark.”
So I propose that all religions used to have merit, but over time we have lost the meaning behind the myths. Forgot why we created them to begin with. We really are a species with amnesia. If you think about the evolution of how humans brains have evolved mentally it makes sense. When we first started to speak, our vocal chords weren’t developed enough to talk, so every time we had something to say we would sing. Just imagining that world makes me grin a little. So then over time we developed some language and our vocal chords developed enough to be able to talk. However, we started with limited words, in fact we originally started with grunts and moans. Therefore one grunt, or word could mean many many different things. Humans therefore had a natural tendency to think metaphorically, and had an ability to decipher metaphors, and myths much better. Over time however everything turned into a very defined world. We know 1+1=2 and nothing is going to change that. We mold objects into specific items with specific meanings. Take a pawn on a chess set for example. Without the game its just that material in a unique way, you might use it as a decoration, or paperweight, but then we create the game chess, and it becomes defined as a pawn, with restrictions to only move in certain ways, abides by certain rules. This is the world we live in now, and we can reflect that on our language. You can say the word “Apple” today, and most people will have an image of a red or green apple in their head. The only way we could have done this is over time, defined red, defined green, and defined apple. Back then they might have just said “Fruit” and the person would have numerous images pop into their brain, but they wouldn’t know to focus on simply the apple (or maybe they would!)
Try to understand religion using their consciousness, not our defined way of being.
So what could God be a metaphor for? To me, I look at it as a metaphor for flawless and perfect consciousness. I believe this is how the universe started, with perfect, flawless consciousness. If all things are the same energy (Thanks Einstein!) then energy just transforms over time, but at the big bang, it was 1 thing. 1 source. There was no differentiated energy at that point. This is the nature of the universe in essence still, but obviously there many different kinds of matter now, and energy works differently in different areas of the universe. Why would flawless consciousness become anything less than consciousness? That’s because perfection sees the appeal to simplicity. If you were flawless, the simple things would be most appealing.
This is where most people split on opinions, and you have to decide for yourself. Which came first, matter or consciousness? Keep in mind that everything modern science has been telling us is that the observer (you) is the missing piece to every puzzle. Atomic theory is based off the observer. It wouldn’t work if the observer didn’t exist. You actually influence the world around you just by simply observing, and being conscious. Everything comes back to consciousness, and for some reason it’s barely discussed. When did they ever talk about consciousness in high school? Even when we talked about evolution for gods sake. Personally, I believe they are intertwined. Much like time and space. They call this the law of complexity, which states that everything has the potential for consciousness, or is consciousness, however the more complex the matter is, the more conscious it is. What that really means, is the more transformed or intricate the energy is at a certain point, the more conscious it is. If you take crystals into consideration, they are like living things, contain most ‘hallmarks’ of life, but are still not as conscious as plants and animals. They kind of bridge the gap between matter and animals, crystals are less complex then us and other animals and plants, but are more complex than a lot of other matter you find.
So in a sense what I believe is that at first there was nothingness, and nothingness is perfect, flawless in every ‘way shape and form’. I encourage people to look it up, but this is also a big part of Hinduism too. Nothingness is the source, but because nothing exists, something has to exist. Something can’t exist if nothing didn’t ‘exist’ either. Nothingness is flawless, but something always is flawless in some fashion. Nothing is flawless because it goes on forever, and is perfectly symmetrical no matter what you do to it. I like to think of the two hands drawing each other, they kind of create themselves. God creates us as we create god.
Imagine this, if you have not look up “Imagining the 10th dimension” on Youtube and watch. The 10th dimension is a point which contains all possibilities, probabilities, universe and anything that can ever be. (you can put anything into nothingness, it would ‘fit’ theoretically) It is the most infinite point that you can fathom. Contains all. Is this not god? An idea that contains all things, that can and ever will happen, the most infinite of all things? And are we not created in this image? The 10th dimension is a point, and if you follow this back to the 1st dimension, it is again a point, but it is a very defined and limited point. This is where the term absolute comes in. Because is shows how everything, at every point is just a line drawn from the 10th dimension, down to the first.
Can you at least not see how probable the idea of a higher power is? I’m not saying to accept god, I am however suggesting to be open to the probability.
I can see how this idea will lead people to believe that they have no control over their fate, but I disagree! All things are energy remember? All things are the SAME energy. We are part of this, we ARE the universe. God went from absolute in 10 dimensions, and started back at 1 dimension. It’s still all the same energy though. God was flawless, and say the appeal to simple, so we, as in god, decided to go to the 1st dimension, and we worked our way back up. We find ourselves now stuck somewhere in between the 3rd and 4th dimensions. Wonder why people struggle with time? We’re ascending to the higher dimension. It’s part of evolution. People are too stuck in the material aspect of things when science has specifically showed us that we should be paying attention to our consciousness. It is the missing piece in…everything?
But hey maybe if this is all true, this whole ‘spiritual shift’ or ‘consciousness shift’ could be us entering "Christ Consciousness" Is that like half-way to god consciousness?
"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind." -Einstein
Whenever someone mentions 10th dimension I immediately see 1 and 0. God is a system. The system is binary. Like two stars spiraling around each other. It represent pure connection. Probably pure connection with that “nothingness”. Maybe the nothing is absence.
Maybe the answer is that God is binary. It is both there and not there. In motion and still.
I actually had an interesting metaphor in the past. If you look at a standard electromagnetic spectrum, http://www.yorku.ca/eye/spectrum.gif
it is noticed that the colour Magenta is not present anywhere. Magenta is not a real colour. It is simply the absence of Green. If you know how the eye sees colour it will make sense. It is the stimulation of Red+Blue. To me Magenta is the colour of god, for it is not a real colour (doesn’t have a wavelength), but still a part of human experience.
Yes. The thing is, this stuff is really quite simple and obvious. But people are too busy hating on eachother’s theories, metaphors and descriptions to see that they’re really saying the same thing.
Even science and mythology are really saying the same thing. And it’s not hard to see, not at all. One would have to wear a blindfold to not see it. And that’s what most of us do, but that’s changing. People are taking off their blindfolds, even the masses, albeit slowly.
This stuff is the simplest truth, the source or center or whatever you want to call it. There are countless names for it, and many descriptions. It’s the very bulk of fact, put into one word. Whether that word is Nature or God doesn’t mean shit. Anyone who cannot see that it’s all the same is a complete moron. No offense, but that’s the way it is.
One must be very, very, very superficial and dense to miss this stuff.
This is an awesome thread, although that explanation is way too long. However, that seems to be the way most people on this site learn, people don’t seem to understand simplicity these days. “If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.” And the simplest way to explain something is with one word, like God or Oneness for example.
“In the beginning there is THE word, and THE word is with God and THE word IS GOD.”
The world is ridiculously simple. Anything complicated is nothing but a distraction, an illusion. If something seems complicated, that’s because you’re wrong. There is nothing complicated in existence, it’s all so very simple.
Peace (another one of those all-encompassing words)
@Joseph, I can dig that. But if its binary, god is 0, and we are 1. Like I said, its like the picture of the two hands that draw each other. God is on one side, and we are on the other, or maybe 10th dimension on one side, and 1st dimension on the other. God=0 though. Think about it. 0,0 on a graph is called the origin. Matter and antimatter are created equally. The electrical charge of the universe is 0. Momentum is conserved so the net momentum is 0. It all comes back to 0. And 0 is where math breaks down, because you can make anything equal to anything with 0. 0/0=x x=any number. Gravity itself pushes things into the shape of 0. Wonder if there is a connection between 0 and circles and why they look the same.
@Manimal, awesome stuff and I agree. Everything is simple! even the 10th dimension, in all it encompasses is still just a point. What is more simple than a point? You can see all the beauty in the world, and find any answer you seek if only you just open your consciousness far enough, and observe. You can learn most of the universe by simply observing a glass of wine.
“Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” Einstein, again.
Wasn’t there a discussion about circles a while ago? https://www.highexistence.com/discussions/topic/o-circles-o/?topic_page=1&num=15
haha dude, I think we’ve just made a circle.
@Joseph, I see magenta… that can only mean one thing… I AM GOD!!!!!
@Alex, Why 10 dimensions? With the string theory there are 13 dimensions and without there are 7 measurable dimensions so I don’t see us stuck between the 3rd and 4rd dimensions. Props for writing that whole thing, I would analyze it and give a really in-depth response but I simply don’t haave the time. Parts of it made no sense to me and didn’t seem to have any evidence but other parts made good points so I won’t generalize about the entire article.
@Manimal, What is the antecedent of “stuff” and “thing(s)” in your response? I assume they are representing the same thing.
great work alex,
you touched on some very intriguing topics and did a phenomenal job at connecting the dots.
sri lankan fables claim the existence of a deity who is a barman who even the Gautama Buddha him self went to chant pirith to.
your post got me thinking of such entity: exclusive religions that create and govern our universe ( mind you im living with the belief that there are millions of “earths’ in universes like ours in various galaxies). while this character is in charge of our reality, ultimately still not immune to suffering.
whats your take on this ?
Wow, great post, and I like your ideas on what God really is. I am fascinated completely on your take on ‘God created us in his image’ where you mention the parallels between the first and tenth dimensions. It just goes to show how simply looking at something in a different perspective can change your view completely!
Pantheism: God is the universe, god is nature.
We are god.
I absolutely agree with everything you’ve said, you’ve touched on a thought that’s been growing in me for the past year. I don’t know if these thoughts, which do seem collective amongst everyone especially on HE, are signs to a 2012 shift in consciousness, or a spiritual awakening, but even if it was, would we know? Or would we continue to evolve, and call it history, like we have with so many major points in technological history.
Maybe this shift in consciousness will be a technological development that transcends the consciousness into the technological realm. Or maybe it’s a collective self awareness. Either way, I see the parallells that run between all religion, all scientific thought, and all philosophy and everyday it feels like our different ideas are merging more and more into one collective understanding of this reality. Maybe us becoming aware that we are becoming aware is part of the process.
Nonetheless, what’s happening on HE is truly remarkable, a community sharing thoughts about thoughts. We explicate the way we think about thinking. There’s so many layers on the thought process now it honestly seems like an endless spiral of thought. And we are only growing through the insights we make. Great post Alex.
@Daniel, I say 10 dimensions because of what it stands for. A point which contains all and everything. If there are any actual higher dimensions, then maybe they represent more gods? As far as the 11th dimension goes, I feel it pointless, because the 10th already contains everything, and the 11th is supposed to be a ‘time dimension’ but how do you place time on an all encompassing thing?
@Praneeth, I’m not sure I understand. Do you mean that maybe our religions kind of form how the universe is governed? Or that there is a supreme religion of sorts that governs the way we operate?
@SpiralOut, Maybe its both! I don’t see humans getting any less conscious, it just wouldn’t make sense considering entropy and the tendencies of energy to transform. I mean chemistry itself is the ‘study of change’ how things Grow, Decay, and then transform. Kind of sounds like the process of life. We are born, we live and grow, we decay and die…then transform? But to what, to where? A higher consciousness? I find it pointless actually to consider where, we could all be in the same ‘space’ especially if our consciousness creates our realities. It does seem like becoming self-aware of our possibilities and roles as humans is necessary. The more people becoming aware the more we accomplish as a group.
the latter: a supreme being that governs our universe. what i was wondering was now, did that supreme being still endure suffering?
, i mean the fact that the “the being’ is in charge of us would ultimately mean that “god” himself has not escaped the birth-death cycle ?
i am going under your assump: God=Brahman=Source=Nature=Absolute
I kind of look at god as Schrodingers cat. Both alive and dead. I only believe suffering is created at our level as a result of an inability to perceive the bigger picture. I like what someone on here said before. “Chemistry has taught us that there is no such thing as cold, only absence of heat. So maybe hate is just the absence of love” Perhaps suffering is only the absence of comfort? If god exist, then he contains all and everything. Perhaps he contains good and bad in perfect harmony, or perhaps bad is just absence of good, and god contains 100% good?
Of course, If god really did contain everything, then god would have to contain the presence of good, and the absence of good at the same time. Interesting. So, alive and dead. Can god perceive the fact that he is both alive and dead though? Even in theoretical terms?
Perhaps it is more like numbers than we think.
but GOD contains all numbers both negative and positive.
lets say -1=suffering and +1=happiness.
GOD contains all, so he is both -1 and +1 at the same time. When we put this together we get 0. Nothingness. Which is flawless and perfect.
the sum of all numbers = 0.
This goes with the whole idea of brahman. There are infinite manifestations of realities from the brahman, or god, but only one brahman, or god. which is 0, but all the integers going either way are the manifestations.
ok so a seperate entity or inside is: it/he/she is still subject to good and bad, but what gives the ‘god’ like stage is the perfect balance of good n evil.
kinda hard to swallow the fact that even god will ultimately suffer, i will ponder.
@Alex awesome post, try condensing it and not repeating yourself too much. It is hard subject matter to not talk circles around, but it could be a bit more accessible. I really like the +1 + -1 = 0 thing. The geometric equivalent of that would be the center of a circle which exists only in relation to the circumference which exists only in relation to the center.
edit: “The sum of all numbers = 0” – mind blown
The only way I’ve found to express this in language is this statement:
It seems everything comes full circle, it seems.
This figure is pretty much 8 quarter perfect circles attached end to end from smallest to biggest (and vice versa). It trips me out. because it is neither large, nor small. It is a pure fractal that has a finite length, yet still a part of an infinite circle.
If you look at my first picture of the rainbow and match it with the spiral, you get a new sense of the term Wave Length. A true sine wave can only be represented in 3D. Light occupies a 3 dimensional space.
Does anyone truly know what happens to the water in the pond when you drop a single pebble onto it?
I don’t totally remember what I was trying to say… just think of light waves as a corkscrew. To have different wavelengths and colours the corkscrew will be either smaller or bigger, red light bigger (longer) violet light smaller (shorter).
I think what I was trying to express was the idea that infinity isn’t true. Talking about circles and god and stuff, you think everything would be infinite. But if you look at the Electromagnetic Spectrum, it is finite. It goes from long radio waves to short gamma rays. Even if it does go on forever, the point is that we cannot see it. It is much like the Fibonacci sequence ^ Even though the shapes are circular, put together it has a beginning and an end.
It is not beginning and end that are important, it is the rainbow in between.
Ah, thats a brilliant idea. It’s almost as if light works the opposite way than everything else in the Universe. Where matter will follow the spiral inwards, light will follow the spiral outwards. I’ve always wondered something. They say that the only reason things appear the way they do is because we are observing it, otherwise it would collapse to its wave-form. I wonder if when light is not observed it reaches is particle state. What do you think light would look like no perceived as a wave?
Not sure. The only thing I can think of about particles, are stars. Stars are giant light particles. and if light can’t escape it becomes a black particle.
I think of the eyeball as a black hole. Any light entering the pupil will not escape. Usually light bounces of stuff, and when it does it is in a normal state. But when you collapse the state and observe it with your black holes, everything observed suddenly takes a shape and colour. When you’re not looking at something, the light behaves kinda like static, bouncing everywhere. Your eyes will pull in all the light static and be able to observe things.
Light is sort of like heat. Normally the heat will disperse and spread in whatever pattern, but when your eyes are taking in and storing the waves of heat, the things you’re observing are slowly cooling, thus their waves will change a little.
Electromagnetic. How is something electric and magnetic at the same time?