hidden agenda of Obama's gun control..any thoughts?

Chase (@chaselang19) 8 years, 11 months ago

Ive recently came across several articles on Alex Jones’ that present the possibility of a hidden agenda to gun control and shootings like Sandy Hook, where the government may be preparing to disarm the people. Due to the possibility of full economic crash or a WW3 scenario between the U.S. and Russia, Iran, China, etc., the government may want to have full control of us. Might sound a little wild but I’m curious if anyone else out there has heard anything similar.

January 30, 2013 at 11:17 am
Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@theskafish, That is a really good point about what is triggering this anger in the first place. But as I said about criminals, if you spend as much $ on CCTV as you do on guns, you will get a lot further against criminals than you would by giving everyone guns.
If people are worried about big brother and privacy, I figure that cctv will be in public places, no such thing as a right to privacy in public. Besides that cctv doesn’t have creepy nerds watching our every move, they only look at footage if a crime is reported at or near the cam.
I don’t think regular citizen will be punished for this, but rather regular citizens will learn to be responsible gun owners from it, an actual benefit.

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@theskafish, I’d say not just anger but fear, fear is creating the opportunities for the angry to express themselves. Fear is the kind of issue you should be addressing, and the media is not helping by their campagnes, but still these are things people should know about rather than ignored.

With criminals, the small time theives and thugs live in a very precarious world surrounded on all sides by threats brought upon themselves by their own actions, that world balances itself. Organized criminals don’t target people who do not interfer or threaten their business, stay out of that and you have nothing to fear from them.

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Matt P (16) (@mkp843) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

This is not right Ray..

“There will not be a WW3 because there is no need for it, no one who is capable of engaging a serious conflict has anything to gain from it, only they have way too much to lose.”

I’ve looked at the situation a lot and you anwer seems to be coming from you own logic.. it’s not what is going on… right now Isreal has ingaged Syria, which is allies with Iran.. reason for another war.. I don’t think you know who is behind the media and who is really running the show.. figure that out, and look at the amount they control and how much they own (boder line everything) and the it’s obvious to see the decisions made by them are selfish and spill into you life everyday, and have been doing so everyday…

And Sandy Hook never happened, kids didn’t die at least… you have to get your information from the internet because it’s unsensored, not the tv which all stems back to the same source…. you have to realize that democrat and repulican are the same agenda, if you haven’t figured that out yet you need to turn you tv off, and get to a real source of news, again on the unsensored internet.. and stop using your own logic to make conclusions, you are a unique individual, and do not necessarily think like the decision makers of the world… get the facts then decide what’s going on

Everyone is not generally comfortable with how the world is! LOOK AT IT!

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winslow (85) (@winslow) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

I have many friends with assault rifles and extended clips and I LOVE TO SHOOT THEM. None of us have killed anyone and dont plan to. But in Texas there is a law that if someone is in your house you can take them out and nobody can do anything about it. Either way, no matter what the government decides they cannot take them away. We wont let them..

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DANM!! (107) (@deej) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@epath, I have just noticed more of it, more “front page news” kind of crimes (specifically gun) happening. Have these always happened and they were not as published as before? It is true that a small group of companies control mass amounts of media and its interesting that this is all being brought to the forefront now. I know fucked up shit happens every day but I was either not paying attention and have a confirmation bias or there actually IS more shootings and/or its just publishized more than ever. Nothing happens without reason. I question what that reason is?

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pat (169) (@epath) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@deej, there are more mass killings with assault rifles but always lots of other killings. Yeah they are being reported more often.

Seems to me people who are afraid of bring bitches of the govt are instead just bitches of weapons manufacturers. Indulge your little fantasies all who think they can fight the govt with aks . You won’t be fighting govt–you’ ll just be killing your neighbors.

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pat (169) (@epath) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

Btw, those who think shooting assault rifles and believe in violence maybe don’t belong in high existence. Tea party has lots of sights.

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DANM!! (107) (@deej) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@epath, yeah I see your point we don’t bring much of an opposition with aks. But Im asking in general what could be going on? I don’t pretend to know. I also don’t watch news because I don’t want to be given a fake paradigm either. Why is this big, ‘now’? Government is manipulated by media, manipulated by further interests etc. what is the cause to this effect? Rhetorical question.

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dr. hamsa (42) (@s7221919) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

Most people buy assault weapons because they think it would be exciting to shoot someone. Defending against the government doesn’t come into it. Nothing in the constitution grants us the right to bear arms against the united states government. If you want a modern civil war that’s great. I’m sure it will turn out wonderful for the handful that survive.

Also owning a gun and being around guns makes you waaaay more likely to be shot. We have to back away from this idea that there will be no peace without the threat of mutual destruction. I don’t need an assault rifle just because my enemy might have one, thats silly. Eventually we get to the point were we all go around with concealed sub-machine guns and we live in fear of everyone we pass on the street because they could have one too.

So how exactly is guns going to solve anything? Say two people get in a bar fight. they are punching each other and one man gets knocked down and in the process reveals a previously concealed gun. The other man startled by this reaches for his gun. The first man seeing his opponent grab his gun decides to draw and fire. They both shoot each other and die.

Here is another scenario an unarmed man gets into a fight with an armed man. In the process of the scuffle a gun falls between the two of them. Obviously what happens next is they fight over the gun and one of them gets shot.

And don’t bring up some silly argument that a knife is the same thing. Any coward can shoot someone. Its very rare for someone to posses what it takes to stab someone and get blood on their hands as they stare into the eyes of their victim. A gun is as arbitrary as pressing a button and killing someone.

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dr. hamsa (42) (@s7221919) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@epath, I agree this site isn’t about defiance its about peace and philosophy and finding better solutions. Live by the gun die by the gun is a way of being that has been around forever and its never worked well for anyone. We need to find a way to prevent the need for guns.

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Axis (10) (@oceanis) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

Here’s a pretty good video that The Amazing Atheist did on the supposed Sandy Hook conspiracy:

He also did another one that’s pretty good: it’s about how Obama’s gun policies won’t really put a dent in gun crimes because gun crimes are related to the drug trade:

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更高的存在 (2) (@huanhanjuexing) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

要防止政府权力过大。

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Anonymous (19) (@) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@trek79, Correct me if I am wrong, but If I recall you have said in more than one topic you are from Australia. How much could you possibly know about the United States other than what you see in the (already heavily censored and corrupt) media? The government is not ‘winding back on our side’. The United States government has been grossly abusing it’s power since the 1920’s, and it’s not likely to stop until something catastrophic happens. With NDAA passing last year, the government can detain it’s own citizens without trial, indefinitely, on grounds of conspiracy or ‘terrorism’. On top of that, illegal surveillance and observation has never been higher in this country. In the boonies of Utah they are currently building a facility that will house enough servers and electronics to store information on every single person in this country (and probably several other persons of interest outside of it). An army of drones is currently being built, with several confirmed sitings in our own cities.

So if I want an assault rifle, why shouldn’t I be able to have one if my government and police do? The Second Amendment was never about crime, hunting, or sport. It was a preventative measure to ensure that a government could not be tyrannical to its people. “It’s’ already begun. I put ‘it’s’ in quotes because I’m not sure what exactly it is, but there is going to be a tipping point, probably somewhere in our lifetime. U.S. Debt has never been higher, and it’s only going to rise with our corrupt 2 party system in place. The federally sanctioned gun laws that they want are nothing more than an emotional knee jerk reaction to white children getting shot in Connecticut and Colorado. Never mind the fact that millions upon millions of responsible gun owners use their guns properly to deter crime, or defend their families against home invasions. By enacting gun control laws, all you’re doing is restricting guns from law abiding citizens. Criminals don’t follow laws, they’ll be able to get all the hardware the federal government wants banned. Prohibition of anything has never worked, why would guns be any different? Especially one where there are an estimated 300 million+ guns in circulation.

I would also like to point out that real, actual assault rifles are already ridiculously hard to get in the US. Meaning fully automatic, select fire rifles. You already have to go through a federal background check to get one, plus the actual price of one is well out of the price range of your average middle class family (we’re talking 10-30 thousand dollars, or more, depending on what you want. The reason being is you can only buy ones that were manufactured before 1986, as that was when the Federal Weapons Ban was enacted) What the media and liberals have deemed ‘assault rifles’ are not really assault rifles. All they are is semi-automatic weapons dressed up like its military counter part. They are not fully automatic, only semi-automatic, and are actually less dangerous than a hunting rifle. People watch too many movies and think when they see an AR-15 it’s a fully automatic killing machine. It’s not, your average hunting rifle has more power and capability to kill than an AR-15.

The point of this entire rant being, that gun control is not the answer. What people should be asking themselves after all these shooting tragedies is ‘why would anyone want to do something like that in the first place?’ The answer is not a simple one, and is multi-faceted . Perhaps it has to do with the seemingly endless glorification of violence that has seeped into EVERYTHING in our culture. Movies, books, TV shows (haha, funny thing is, here in the States, you can show someone getting tortured or their head blown off on TV, but you can’t show a pair of tits of explicit sex scenes.) Or perhaps it has to do with the fact that we treat people who are mentally ill like lepers, and we sweep them under the rug. The mental health care that we have in place is absolutely disgusting, involving nothing more than a bottle (or two) of prescription medication and a pat on the back that everything will be alright. Or perhaps it is society itself. The society that taxes 70 cents of every dollar to go to the (already bloated, and over-funded) military. The society that takes education and science, important things for any society, and turns them into nothing more than an after thought, or a business. Seriously, our entire education and science programs are funded with whatever is left over from the annual fiscal budget. And we wonder why things are in decline.

At any rate, this has gone on long enough. I hope that this has provoked some serious critical thinking, or at least a new view point on something. I just have one more thing to say to those who are anti-gun: If your home or family were ever threatened, who are the first people you call? The police. The state or government funded men (or women) with guns. Isn’t that ironic? Wouldn’t it just be easier to have one yourself and know how to use it, rather than rely on other people? Even if you never have to use it, (and I sincerely hope you never do), isn’t it better to have and not need, than need and not have?

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@drakonerythros, You are right, I know nothing about America, but I do know human beings, why do you presume Americans are so alien from any other human being in the world. I love how Americans insist they are set apart and no one could possibly get how things are. Things are no different anywhere, mate, it is just you insist they are.
That is the big problem in the world, people draw imaginary boundaries between people, all based on superficial discrepencies, when fundamentally a human is human, cultural differences exist but psychology is universal. I don’t need the media to understand psychology, that is the thing, you are all relying on media for your facts then criticize me for using corrupt media, wrong.

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Anonymous (19) (@) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@trek79, But what does that have to do with the argument of gun control? The only reason I pointed out your nationality is because you were saying things that were factually inaccurate about a country you don’t even live in. It’s easy to read one or two news articles about a country and pretend like you know what’s going on, but evidently you don’t. Politics aside, you guys have an absolutely amazing country ( Australia is ranked Number 2 on the Human Development Index, well above the United States). But I’m not going to just go and start harping in about gun control and the political climate in Australia, because I just don’t know enough about it. I don’t live there.

In a perfect world, no one would need guns, there would be no countries, no military, and everyone everywhere would have awesome sex all the time without limit or retrospect. But the world just isn’t there yet. Not even close. Most of the people in this world who have privilege can’t even think for themselves. Who cares about the worlds problems when some shitty new reality TV show is coming out, or I can play mindless, lackwit games on my new shiny iPhone that I bought on my credit card. Jests and cynicism aside, until my government plays fair (See: The Roman Empire), and until violence against humankind is all but gone, I’m keeping my guns, and I will vehemently rebel against anyone who says I can’t have something when they can. See, I did all that without ever calling you a mean name, or belittling you in any way. I genuinely hope you have a nice day, it’s -12 here today in upstate New York, and I would kill for some Aussie weather right about now :)

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@drakonerythros, You say a lot of stuff but it sounds like justification of fear culture, which itself is media induced. I figure the police and military have guns so civilians don’t have to. You say people should be asking why people are going on shooting sprees in the first place, well it is because a very small fraction of society is homocidally mentally unstable and they have ample opportunity to attain weapons.
Really, what are you afraid of? Have you shot someone who is trying to rob you? Have you engaged in a gunfight with gangs and organized crime? Shooting guns is a sport as far as civilians are concerned. Even if someone does try to rob you, you should give them what they want not try and kill them, they are just people with weakness and human failings. Let the law deal with them rather than spraying deadly projectiles around the streets, children may be there for crying out loud.
You don’t solve your societies problems by arming people to the teeth, you want less people shooting at people not more.

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seraphina (3) (@sarahpine100) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

I feel that this document puts things in perspective.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_06.pdf
It’s an analysis of all causes of death in 2011. If you look on page 19, you will find that there are 11,101 confirmed deaths from the discharge of a firearm. On the same page, under Intentional Self-harm (suicide) by discharge of firearms, you will find 19,766 deaths listed.
If you look at page 18, under “motor vehicle accidents”, 34, 677 deaths are listed, and this number has remained relatively the same since 2005, a slightly higher amount than total gun deaths.
If you look at the 15 leading causes of death, not one of them is guns. If you look on pages 4 and 17, you will find 596,339 deaths due to diseases of the heart, a testament to the lifestyle our society has chosen.
Now that you know I’m not just brushing off the data that says that there are about 30,000 deaths tied to guns in 2011 alone, I’ll share exactly what I think about the 2nd amendment: it was placed in the constitution to help people defend themselves lest the government get too powerful. The sentiment is still useful today, but the reality is if the government wants to persecute or abuse the people (which it obviously already does), having a semi-automatic rifle will not save you. We have the most powerful military in the world, a military budget that nobody else in the world can manage.
While I plan to keep a small concealed weapon on my person as soon as I turn 21, I will not carry with it the delusion that it will help with anything other than defending myself from whatever deranged lunatic may attack me or my family in the future. It’s only me doing my best to keep me and my loved ones from becoming an addition to the gun homicide statistic.
Thirdly, I agree with TheSkaFish when he says that we fail to address the real issue; why people are using the guns and committing violence. People are upset for a reason, people commit violence for a reason, and it’s not because of the outdated idea that people are ‘just plain evil’, which is more of an excuse than an answer. There is a reason that income inequality and childhood exposure are linked to violence. We, as a society, don’t know all about what causes violence, but that should be our main priority. If people want guns, they’ll get guns, the same way that people get drugs – you cannot legislate away peoples ability to get what they want. What we can do is create a society where people don’t want to cause harm to others. So, you can choose the stressful plan of trying to control the symptom, or you can treat the disease.

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Anonymous (19) (@) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@sarahpine100, Well said, that’s what I was trying to tell @trek79, but he didn’t seem to understand.

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Anonymous (19) (@) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@trek79, Corporations control government out of interest for maximum profit, the government controls the people. Do you see anything wrong with that? It means that the government doesn’t give a shit about you, and it certainly doesn’t care for your protection or well being. There was a Supreme Court case here not too long ago (I really cannot remember the title, I’ll look it up if you’d like) that stated that the police aren’t even obligated to protect you, only to enforce the law.When the highest court in the entire god damn country says that the people we look to for justice and protection don’t even have to provide that, I think that says a lot. I don’t know about you, but if a criminal broke into my house with intent to harm me or my family for whatever reason, what should I spend my few precious seconds doing? Call the police, which can take anywhere from 5-15 minutes for them to arrive (or more, depending on where you live)? Or sliding a magazine into a pistol or rifle and make sure your family is safe? I think the choice is pretty obvious, Mr. Butler.

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@drakonerythros, No it’s not obvious. I understand exactly where you are coming from, I’m the only person here making that concession though.

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@sarahpine100, I’d like to know why your gun death rates are so astonomical compared to pretty much every other country in the world, at least those not at war with themselves. There are countries with more guns per capita than even your country but don’t have anywhere near these numbers, especially for homicides.
But comparing to heart disease, that’s not only fat people but 90 year olds also have heart attacks, then car accidents, wtf, maybe if you go for auto-homocide, but otherwise where is the comparison to any of these? They are completely unrelated issues.

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seraphina (3) (@sarahpine100) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

Merely showing that there are more important issues at hand. Some doctors predict as much as 95% is completely preventable. Remove the 5%, you still have nearly 600,000 people dying, and we’re arguing over guns, which are more often used to commit suicide than to harm another person. I put the comparison there to put the wild exaggerations of the media and their followers in check, to make sure exactly how many people we’re talking about.
You bring up a good point that more people owning guns doesn’t necessarily mean that more people die from gun violence. My best guess as to why the US has more deaths caused by guns than other countries? Because Americans have a higher proclivity towards violence. I don’t know why, but I listed a few reasons in my previous post. All the same, taking guns off the streets doesn’t solve the problem. The problem is that the American people commit more violence against their fellow man than other countries. Again, I don’t understand why, but that should be what we’re trying to figure out.

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winslow (85) (@winslow) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@epath, You think people that like to shoot assault rifles dont belong here? I humbly bow before you mother god of the interweb. What is the problem with me shooting an assault rifle at a target? I love to hit targets with bullets. Its like darts only much more action packed. That isnt violent. I think people who think a dialogue from all angles isnt needed shouldnt be on high existence.

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winslow (85) (@winslow) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

I shot at a pile of tires just yesterday in fact. With a .45 cal handgun. Didnt promote a single ounce of violence. Who would have thought..

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pat (169) (@epath) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

People forget the second amendment says “A Well-regulated militia”

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