Imagine a time in history…

whatarewe (@ravi712) 8 years, 10 months ago

Imagine the time in history, when government did not exist and earths population was uncorrupted by “the rulers”. What if during this period life was not as bad as our history tells us. What if this way of life was on the contrary the right way to live fitting in to the ecological systems that keep our mother earth in balance and peace. Would it be possible that these power hungry “rulers” rewrote history when they came into rule about how inglorious life used to be before royalty and government, and spread the knowledge as the empires grew. Perhaps that is why we believe that we need a government, because we are programmed to believe that way through the manipulation of our true history. Slivering like snakes moving into society and disrupting our true vibrational frequencies with media and education, and driving us to mass slavery to a system that does not need to exist. Are we beginning to remember? Are our ethereal bodies communicating with us sharing past glimpses of time when we lived naturally and making us question why? Does this then lean us to an instinctive hate towards the ruling leaders of the world whomever it may be? But then you realise the whole point of remembering was to show a different way to live, not to hate and you pursue a new path. A consciousness arising and desire to pursue a new way of life by masses as more and more souls remember. Do you remember? Does the idea of living in nature make your chakras spin and send you on a whirlwind ride to a paradise? Will we all remember the true oneness of all creation and the interconnected nature of everything in existence? Now imagine a time in history in the future, when government did not exist and earths population was uncorrupted by “the rulers”.

November 27, 2013 at 4:37 pm
TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@ravi712, the problem is, before we had presidents and prime ministers, even before we had kings, even before we had chiefs, we had just some guy with the biggest clubs and all his pals with their clubs, and those were the O.G.’s. There were rulers before formal titles, it was probably just whoever was the biggest and meanest.

Even if the government stepped down tomorrow, the guy with the most and biggest guns and most money to buy more guns, ammo, and goons would take over.

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whatarewe (2) (@ravi712) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

you are assuming that we (in other words homo sapiens) “evolved” from cave men and monkeys etc. whereas I am not denying the possibility that homo sapiens/humans always existed and our level of consciousness was much higher than it is now! perhaps its right, perhaps its wrong, just a thought

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inna (95) (@paintedbeings) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

There are dominating creatures everyone, even baboons are sweating other alpha male baboons. Rulers rise out of desire for overseeing order, and order exists in nature, more or less.

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Anonymous (57) (@) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

History was always written by the winners, due to the possibility of information control.
Ideally, as the internet continues booming, and people become harder to manipulate, all malicious actions can be documented and later generations can piece together the complete picture. No more information control, it will all be shared.
Just got some work to-do getting to that stage.
Audit the Fed.

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Frosty (45) (@iflipvans) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@theskafish, What you described is the book “Sword of the Lady”
In it you follow someone in a time period known as “after The Change”
The Change is not described in the beginning but its seems it was a nuclear war and only those who were secluded enough survived. Those who were the O.G.’s ran groups of bandits or hole entire villages of people.

@ravi712
, You have to remember that consumerism is the biggest part of society today. Without someone controlling the currency, everyone would get what they want but there isn’t enough for everyone. So those with the biggest and baddest clubs and bludgeons/guns and rocket launchers would be the ones who would get the new xBox One. (Only out in the U.K. for now)

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@ravi712, In principle I agree, but such times would have needed everyone to have some kind of function in society, a productive one that could sustain everyone. Then you have issues like some people being better at stuff than others, so would be expected to spend more time at that task than others, so some people become more important than others naturally.

With automation you can eliminate a lot of human jobs, it becomes possible to have a world where you only need to provide a decent standard of living for everyone, but the jobs that do remain would need to give the workers reward for their effort. The real problem becomes an argument over who gets the jobs, who gets a chance to earn rewards beyond that decent life that everyone gets as standard.

A lot of the time it is as simple as whoever is best at the job, but there are a lot of jobs that many people are equally as good at, and how far can you break down and distribute that workload fairly so people can earn a worthwhile scratch from it?

In this kind of world it also would simply be a case that you can do what you want as long as it doesn’t impact others in ways they do not consent or are not compensated for otherwise society will see you as a threat and either limit you or eliminate you, but as long as that decent standard of living is met and that code of decency is honoured then otherwise there would be no significant problems, no standout place for such complex political and economic systems, most things could be done by logistics and by cooperation between communities and business.

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whatarewe (2) (@ravi712) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@trek79, thanks for the response. I agree with what you say about having a productive functional self sustaining society, and cooperation between everybody is the key. However I don’t agree that there will be a problem with distribution of wealth. One of todays major problems is the concept of money and currency (introduced by “the rulers”). Having money in society has corrupted our minds, and like you describe some people believe they deserve better jobs/more money than others and has caused a massive unbalanced distribution of wealth that has caused unjust divides between the rich and the poor. Money and currency has driven people to become competitive, jealous and always needing a better job than their neighbour and never being satisfied or happy with their earnings. Perhaps for a society such as the one described above to exist, we have to forget the concept of money, and instead have items of real wealth, and not be confined to live life dependant on pieces of paper.

My ideal world is one without money, without government, living in nature and hopefully all humans working together helping without expecting something in return in a sort of neo-tribe, each person is given a duty for that tribe and we all work to keep the community striving and our mother earth happy.


@iflipvans
, i agree with you too about society today. but the fundamental flaw in your argument is, you talk about money, guns and weapons, and control. for our earth to be in the peaceful and harmonic state it belongs in, our society and the way we think has to change. we don’t need money, guns, weapons these are all concepts that were introduced unnecessarily. Yes i agree that as we may have been hunters in the past we may have needed weapons for food and for defence, but do we really need them now? can we not live peacefully together without these material objects. not for a long time i don’t think and not until the majority of our population change their way of thinking and forget the corruption, and remember the truth.

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@ravi712, Fair enough, but I don’t think earning more than others is a problem, because the key word is “earning” but when people are entitled to take more than they earn, this is the real problem you are talking about.

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@ravi712, Entitlement has its lines of decency, lines not clarified on the entire spectrum; the rich say the poor do it, the poor say the rich do it, but I wager everyone wants to do it and they will if they can.

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whatarewe (2) (@ravi712) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@trek79, i know what you mean, you’re right what you say. in fact you hit the nail on the head saying that everyone wants to do it and will do it, and i believe thats a problem that is inherent with money, wealth and currency and is unavoidable. thats why i would like to see an alternative to money. but well put dude.

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Anonymous (13) (@) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

I tried imagining people having no laws and no morals, but the only thing I keep imagining is those with enough power to be above the law and having no moral responsibilities. It’s really comforting to have utopian beliefs, especially in times of desperation.

Would the need for inner peace still exist if humankind never made society a stressful concept to discuss?

Do money and currency really drive people to become competitive and jealous or the competitiveness and jealousy were the most fair reason for money to exist?

Living in a world where you have to earn money first to pay to learn about the love for life (Philosophy), and where the majority of people are informed best by comedians about the murders of the greatest humanitarians in history, makes me believe that politics never made the history they wanted to make and always tried to fake it so people can be at least hopeful for their future.

The perspective of being enlightened which states that a person has to change himself first to change the world doesn’t mention that he should mind his own business.

It’s a debatable question whether every human being inherently enjoys power over others or religions aren’t so bad after all. It’s also debatable if the purpose of humans is to evolve stronger physically and mentally, or it’s what makes them destroy each other unconsciously.

What if we try to imagine a world where only people that believe in love are going to be capable of sacrifice and stretched it – to realize we must help each other before we sacrifice ourselves for each other. Is it really Utopia? Or just the killing of passion is what violence means. It’s all open for debate as long as people don’t get sick and tired. And when they do, they are going to try to stop that destruction for diversity.

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@ravi712, An alternative would be cool, but I don’t think it could be philosophical, not at this stage in human development, generally people work because they get something out of it, not because they enjoy it, if there were any way to distribute labour fairly so everyone contributes the same then it may be philosophically possible.

But because some people are better at some things than others, you have a quality conflict of interests; most people want the person who is best at the job to do it, so that robs that expert of all their personal time, it is a case of it being like slavery just because you have talent, but you are whipped with philosophy and chained by principle instead.

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whatarewe (2) (@ravi712) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@francis-york-morgan, brilliant comment. i completely agree that having the problems that we do have in society has led to some seeking that inner peace and giving the concept of involution rather than evolution. this conforms with spirodynamics and the progression towards to the noosphere, and I do believe that without these struggles we wouldn’t be where we are now. Going through the pain, to learn about true love and how interconnected we are with everything in this universe, is something I also agree with. If you think about the level of consciousness around the world in the past compared to now, you would have to believe that because of the tremendous strains on society and our planet that we are at a higher level than before. But i believe that there is another level, whether we have to reach that level or not is debatable, but at the moment I think that in order to protect our sacred earth and to look after one and another we do have to eventually get to that level. Most likely not in our lifetimes, but one day.

Speaking on the concept of working and earning. I concur that of course there is going to be the question of how do we reward those with a level of expertise that is hard to come by, and how do we give those incentives to provide high quality work and produce. Maybe we should reward those who work harder/have a high level of expertise, but do we reward the, with money? or could it be that we trade different commodities, such as timber, materials, food, privileges, treats. or do we just do it out of the kindness of our hearts because that is how we truly show our love and look after one and another, and we love the jobs that we do? (I’m assuming that in this neo-tribe that because money does not exist, we are not stuck doing jobs we don’t love, and aren’t driven to do those jobs because of money). I don’t know the answer, just a thought!

thanks for the comments guys, interesting to see what people have to say! :)

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@ravi712, There was such a time. It’s called the stone age. Good times, but you’re gravely mistaken if you think there were no rulers. There were plenty of rulers, many more than today, but nobody had too much power because there was no big society.
Just tribes, the natural human way.

“Perhaps that is why we believe that we need a government,”

-No. People believe they need society, which they don’t. And that’s why they think they need a government, because you can’t have a society without government.

“driving us to mass slavery to a system that does not need to exist.”

-Right, slavery. Because you’re totally chained and have no say about anything, and if you act up you get the whip.
It’s a fucking lie, mate. You are not slaves, YOU CHOOSE THIS.

“Are our ethereal bodies communicating with us sharing past glimpses of time when we lived naturally and making us question why?”

-Ethereal body = mind = you. The body is single, flesh and mind alike.
You’re starting to sound like a schizo.

“A consciousness arising and desire to pursue a new way of life by masses as more and more souls remember.”

-A moment ago you claimed it’s how we used to live, and now you say it’s a NEW way of like…
Doesn’t add up.

“Do you remember?”

-Totes, I never forgot.

“Does the idea of living in nature make your chakras spin and send you on a whirlwind ride to a paradise?”

-Ideas are not enough for something like that. You gotta take action.
The mind is a web of lies, reality is the truth.

“Will we all remember the true oneness of all creation and the interconnected nature of everything in existence?”

-Nope, because it isn’t real.
IT’S JUST ANOTHER PIECE OF SOCIETY PROPAGANDA, DESIGNED TO INSPIRE A DESIRE FOR MASS COMMUNITY.

That’s all it really is.
As long as you cling to this sort of BELIEFS, you cannot break free or gaze into the light.

“Now imagine a time in history in the future, when government did not exist and earths population was uncorrupted by “the rulers”.”

-Working on it.

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Anonymous (13) (@) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@ravi712, I don’t think there ever was a different level of human consciousness throughout the history of our species. I believe we always had the same potential while we, humans, fucked up the same way repeatedly to come to the same conclusions about each other. Because history never taught us that we are great. Fiction does that to make us strive for that feeling of greatness. It’s propaganda for the impatient and a fantasy for the patient. And it helped them both.

But it doesn’t help us all. In fact, time is a synonym for what people do with it.

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whatarewe (2) (@ravi712) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@manimal,
i appreciate your comment, but before you respond in such a way, I would say theres a different way of saying things but its your choice.

1) the reason i wrote rulers as “rulers”, is because its not meant to be the literal meaning of ruler. I’m not going to spell out the meaning, because my meaning of “ruler” is different to someone else meaning of “ruler”.

2) you say you can’t have a society without a government. can you explain this? as far as i’m aware a society is something that can exist without a governing body, and is simply a group of people who have a common relation or existence? why does a government have to exist with this? I’m not sure?

3) when i wrote about slavery to the system. its a metaphorical tone of speech, not meant to be taken literally. i agree its a choice, and i agree action is necessary, which is why I am taking action before you jump to conclusions that Im all talk. I don’t need to go into specifics but I have plans in place to remove myself from the societal issues we face.

4) Your understanding of ethereal bodies is different to mine. I understand that our ethereal bodies exist on a different plane of existence, a higher dimension on the astral-etheral plane. These ethereal bodies are essential our true being and essence, and contain the memory and knowledge of all. For you to say that I sound “schizo” is offensive, unnecessary, and as far from the truth as possible. If your understanding of something is different to mine, that doesn’t make me or you wrong, and certainly doesn’t make me mentally unstable. Maybe what I say sounds strange and odd, but maybe I have different beliefs and opinions.

5)”-Nope, because it isn’t real.
IT’S JUST ANOTHER PIECE OF SOCIETY PROPAGANDA, DESIGNED TO INSPIRE A DESIRE FOR MASS COMMUNITY.

That’s all it really is.
As long as you cling to this sort of BELIEFS, you cannot break free or gaze into the light.”

i agree that this may be true. but how can you say one thing is right and one thing is wrong? you have access to the absolute truth do you? you believe that the idea of oneness and interconnectedness is propaganda (i agree maybe its true), but thats your belief/opinion. i’m happy that you’ve found a way to gaze into the light, and for you this may be the right way. but for me I’ve found my light somewhere else, and I believe that we’re looking at the same light, but just through different windows!

probably have to agree that we’re on two different pages, but nice to hear a different way of thinking and possibly a different window to look through! thanks!

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whatarewe (2) (@ravi712) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@francis-york-morgan, “Because history never taught us that we are great.” completely agree. I think essentially we may be speaking the same words, what i meant about higher level of consciousness is exactly what you’re saying about potential. we have always had that level, but yes like you say we messed up along the line somewhere and we’ve ended up where we are. History fails to give a true representation of our true existence and we have constant reminders in the media and like you say in propaganda to give us that “fantasy”.

I like the way you think.

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@ravi712,

1) Could you be a bit more vague, please?

2) Without governing, it is not a society but a group of individuals pulling in different directions. Something has to glue them together and unite them under a common cause, give directions and ensure their prosperity.

All mammals (and many other animals) understand thins, but only humans are feeble enough to deny it.
Why is a pack of lions led by a big male? He isn’t needed for hunting or anything like that. But he brings order and protects the pack from threats. So he is given some privileges by the pack for doing this.

It’s the natural order.

Humans are pack mammals, yes, but we’re capable of independence. However, one cannot be independent and dependent on the same time. You’re either in society or on your own, not both.

3) I didn’t accuse you of anything, mate. No need to man the battlements.

The vast majority of people take no action whatsoever. They just sit and make demands and act like anybody cares, then they whine that they don’t get what they want, a they blame it on “the system” or “male privilege” or immigrants, etc. Rinse and repeat.

Blaming. Making excuses.
Beliefs, opinions.
Reinforcing their own lousy ways.
Enslaving themselves.

4) I sad you sounded like a schizo because you did, when you say that’s offensive you’re basically saying that schizo is a bad thing. And THAT is offensive. Schizo is just a state of mind.

As for the ethereal body and stuff like that… it’s not a separate entity. It only seems that ways because you push it away and paint it up like some sort of fairytale wonder. Cool your jets for a second.
It IS you, you are it. The separate planes are all right here, right now, the same reality.

5) Deception is the simplest of things, and the nastiest and messiest because its traces take ages to dissolve.
A lie told today may spread and evolve for ages to come. And there will always be fools who find comfort and hope in that lie and bow to it, soon to preach it to everyone he or she meets.

People devote their lives to these lies, they build and arrange things to manifest it, if only for a brief moment in a small location for a small group of people.
And some of the stuff that comes out of it is, in a way, beautiful and grand…

…but in the end, it’s just a ripple caused by a sinister lie meant to corrupt and pervert.

You find a pretty flower in your backyard, only to later discover that it’s a parasite that takes over and kills all the vegetation around it.

Opinions and beliefs have no value. They just entertain the ego and helps reinforce lies and ignorance.
Take a look beyond, past the lies, past the bonafide, and into reality.

A lie can be understood, but never known. The mind can understand, but never know.
They eyes can observe, but never fabricate.

Where the mind ends, reality and life begins.

Peace and love
//Elion

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whatarewe (2) (@ravi712) 8 years, 10 months ago ago

@manimal,

hi Elion,

haha i think i understand what you’re saying now. I have learnt a lot from what you’re comment so thank you, and I have come across these words in my reading. Sorry about the way I came across, the comments you made in you’re second reply have helped.

I think its important to understand the conclusion that the ego and entertaining the ego keeps us in a constant state of denial and reality become masked by a false perception of life. There is no utopia, and to think that one exists is to become a part of the propaganda and deception. This was my first post, and I was a bit apprehensive about ever writing anything, so I kept basic and vague, didn’t want to overcomplicate anything and just wanted to spark off some thoughts and here what people had to say. I’m really thankful that you commented because this was actually one of the points I wanted to reach within this discussion.

just to clarify a few things…I understand that the ethereal body and all different planes of existence are here now, I can see how I came across as saying they were separate to our existence. I didn’t mean that, I take it back. What I meant was that maybe we can access a wealth of information, memories, anything from our ethereal bodies, but not to imply that we are separate to any of this. does that make sense?

I understand you either have society or independence, and now agree that society has to have order. What i would like to understand further is……

If one goes to through the independent route, is the result after spending time alone and exploring the depths of your consciousness through removal of external influence and meditative adventures, that the conclusion is utopia doesn’t exist, and that the expectation of something grand and miraculous was a false one? Is going down the independent route an act of the ego itself and is therefore destined for failure?

if so, is it of more worth to just spend time in seeing past the ego, past the mind and seeing the true love and light without removal from what we call modern society? or is there something else?

I do have my own interpretations, but i’d love to hear yours and anyone else’s!

thank you brother,
whatarewe

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