Instantaneous Communication/Travel

Alex (@hollowinfinity) 9 years, 2 months ago

So, I was smoking with my dad the other day, and he asked me a seemingly simple question: “If a black hole appeared in this room, right now, would the effects of the black hole be felt instantly?”
Would it take time for gravity to reach you from the black hole in the center of the room, to you sitting on a couch against the wall?
It takes light time to travel, and they say there is nothing faster than light, but could it be that some effects we’ve never been without could be instantaneous?

Perhaps if one were to truly understand the effects of gravity, or even create synthetic gravity, it would open up the possibility to communicate instantly across the universe, perhaps even travel great distances.

Though, I wouldn’t even know how to set up an experiment where something wasn’t exposed to gravity to begin with.

November 19, 2012 at 12:05 pm
Cody (472) (@versai) 9 years ago ago

@ijesuschrist, I just don’t understand where you get your sense of authority. It’s totally okay to use dead men’s theories and build off their ideas, but to be confined to them is another story. You keep shutting down questions and spouting facts that you cannot authoritatively say are or aren’t possible, just because you’ve “read a book”. My point is the greatest scientific minds that you admire so much started out exactly like Alex is here, asking curious questions and challenging the society’s beliefs. Einsten, newton, galileo and most others I’m sure were, at first, put down and disregarded by the “sophisticated and intellectual” elite that you keep using to slap around this thread. My point is you should be as humble as you claim you are and approach these new questions with the same attention you’d give any scientist, cause that’s where the learning and progress comes from.

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 9 years ago ago

@blankey, Whats your thoughts on the 2nd half of this apartment?

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 9 years ago ago

@hollowinfinity, Why would no field to a field be any different than a field diminishing or increasing?

You come off as you pick and choose what to learn, and only want to read things that agree with you. Why not understand the basics and go from there? You learn to walk before you run…

@versai, No they didn’t. They went to school, they studied the phenomenon in their basement, at the library, and dedicated their LIVES to this. They didn’t just go and challenge the great minds before them, without understanding them first. I doubt anyone on this website could even provide the mathematical background for relativity theory. Its incredibly difficult to understand, and takes at least 3 years of advanced mathematics (in a college system) to truly understand what is going on.

If anyone went and read about relativity theory, started giving me equations, and then spouted out what was wrong with them, why they don’t prevail in a black hole, and generally any idea how to fix them that would be great. But to sit here, on the inter webs, and say you read yahoo-news science or Scientific American and claim to challenge 100 year old tested theories, I’m not going to support you, unless you make some really intelligent argument.

No intelligent argument, go back to the drawing board (or books) and start over – Like everyone else.

Philosophy is a different story. If you want to come up with beliefs about that, its completely different. We cannot study that, we cannot prove anything right or wrong.

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, You are still just talking out of your ass. There is still nothing you can show us saying you have the ‘facts’ You haven’t proved a goddamn thing. Perhaps open a book about how to pretend to be smarter.

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@hollowinfinity, Ohhh burn lol

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Eric (1,819)M (@blankey) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@yoinkie, @ijesuschrist, Why do we keep going back to the speed of light here? First I think we need to ask the question, would a wormhole/blackhole “suck” you in, or would you “walk” in yourself. My understanding is that the a black hole indeed “sucks” you in. Now, does it matter if this is instantaneous? No. What matters is that you just fucking bent space and you are traveling through a wormhole. It would appear to an outside perspective to be ridiculously fast, probably lightspeed, seeing as you are going from one end of the universe to another almost instantly, but to you it would be a normal speed and just be a short walk.

And something we should all keep in mind is that these are all theories and there has not been a theory to link everything together. Until then, we have a lot of speculation to do. And guess what? This is indeed speculation. Let people talk and let people be wrong. Show them where they are and then move on.

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yoinkie (1,498)C (@yoinkie) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, I could have sworn I read on your profile that you are a chemist in training. The first thing almost all my various Science teachers told me was, dont trust anything, question everything, make assumptions, and take all facts with grain of salt as facts in science are only facts until we learn more about them. Everyone else here is creating theories, or explanation, and you just shoot them down saying, “No that cant be true. these other past scientists said so. Go read a book.”

You, on the other hand, talk like everything ever written in Science is 100% undeniable fact and it will never change. Maybe we just grew up in different places and were taught different things. You seem like a robot, only knows what it is taught and isnt able to formulate new theories or explanations. Thats not at all what a scientist should be, so maybe dont quit your day job.

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yoinkie (1,498)C (@yoinkie) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@blankey, Im with you on that completely. The reason why Science has always been my favorite overall thing to learn is because it allows for so much speculation, and allows people to create their own theories. I dislike it wehn people claim the exact opposite and who think science is written in stone and cant be changed, like its some kind of religion or something(ijesuschrist). If that were truly the case, the earth would still be flat, the universe would revolve around the sun, and so on and so fourth. You have to realize that the smartest minds in the world all thought these ridiculous facts to be true at one point. Thank god Science evolves, unlike some peoples mindset.

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@yoinkie, I feel I have a good handle on what to give weight and what not to give weight, and I find that an important trait in the sciences.

It is entirely possible that fairies live inside a black hole.
Is it probable? Should I ponder it?
No, I wouldn’t.

Although this isn’t as ridiculous a statement at all, but in the culmination of all that I have learned, I do not think that this is worth considering deeply. Given the evidence against it.

If there was evidence that was weak, conflicting, or otherwise, sure. I would totally be in agreement that this is worth discussing, but if there is results out there, all of which conflicting with the original post, and supporting a different result, then why consider it?

If down the line, more results come in that something odd is going on with gravity’s speed of propagation, then this would come back and I would admit my narrow-sightedness, but until then, we should stick to ideas that aren’t conflicting with all the data being presented, no?

@blankey, The rate at which you would get sucked into a black hole (from your perspective) would be the same speed in which you get sucked down to earth – 9.8m/s^2.

The OP is asking, if a black hole (or any matter) instantly appeared from nothing, how fast would you feel its effects. Would it, for example, be an instantaneous feeling of a shift in gravity, even if the black hole appeared instantly at the core of the sun (in opposition to the current belief that we wouldn’t feel anything for 8 minutes)?

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Kristina Alexandra (13) (@lookitskristina) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@hollowinfinity, completely off topic but your dad is awesome….

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

I’m just gunna ignore the stupid stuff in this thread and continue to talk about gravity.
Has anyone ever felt like the way drugs influence us directly relates to how we perceive gravity itself? If true, there have been quite a few times where I had a deja vu experience. It literally felt like I could predict the future. As if my thoughts were travelling faster than the speed of light, but it was really just me feeling gravity more intensely. Any one ever feel like that?

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Eric (1,819)M (@blankey) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@hollowinfinity, Good idea.

One day when the moon was especially close to the Earth I felt much “lighter”, also I was stoned…

On the come-up of a trip I felt like I was levitating ever so slightly. It was like I could truly feel the electrical pulsating field between the couch’s electrons and my own.

Also, there is the idea of gravity AND levity. That it comes in both sides of the earth, creating this dense reality we reside in. If levity were to take over a bit somehow, we would be much lighter and might be able to hover around. And sort of going off this but in more of a hippie, not scientific at all; if gravity/levity was actually the Source of our reality, and that source is Consciousness, as we see it is possibly intertwined with the fundamentals of reality (wavicles), then perhaps our consciousness can spread us throughout these different levels or frequencies of reality. More levity, lighter, higher frequency, higher dimension, possibly astral realm, etc. More gravity, more dense,.. yeah. lol

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Eric (1,819)M (@blankey) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, Oh and dark energy/matter flows galaxies much quicker than the speed of light. I’m sure you already knew, but just saying..

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@blankey, Aside from the grammar, could you give me a reference, because I don’t believe this is true.

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Eric (1,819)M (@blankey) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, I’ll quote my book, The Hidden Reality by Brain Greene.

“The speed limit set by light refers solely to the motion of objects through space. But galaxies recede from one another not because are traveling through space…but rather because space itself is swelling and the galaxies are being dragged along by the overall flow. And the thing is, relativity places no limit on how fast space can swell, so there is no limit on how fast galaxies that are being pushed apart by the swell recede from one another. The rate of recession between any two galaxies can exceed any speed, including the speed of light.”

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@blankey, Very interesting. I am not sure if the theory of swelling space is exactly accepted.

I think it is one of the possible explanations of dark energy… But I don’t know if this is a popular theory at all, even though Brian Greene is fairly popular.

Here is another article that explains how things can exceed the speed of light, but do not violate Relativity:
http://phys.org/news/2012-10-physicists-special-relativity.html

Nevermind! Apparently it is at least somewhat accepted that space is indeed expanding itself… my mind is blown, thanks Eric.

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Brandon Phillips (142) (@brandonphillips) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

Assuming that it’s a blackhole like the blackholes in space, wouldn’t you be immediately incinerated by it? Everything near it would. We can’t go into blackholes at all without being beyond destroyed and then the question itself is pointless.

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@brandonphillips, That is a terrible reason not to question something.

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Brandon Phillips (142) (@brandonphillips) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, You can still question it. That was just my apathy speaking. But srsly. Let’s just say we were indestructible. The end of a blackhole would be just like the other side. I’m sure that things would be immediately sucked into it. But then again I have done little to no research on such a thing.

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@brandonphillips, He was using it as a stage to question whether gravity’s effects travel faster than the speed of light, not what was on the inside of a black hole..

I’m speaking for him lol

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Brandon Phillips (142) (@brandonphillips) 8 years, 12 months ago ago
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Eric (1,819)M (@blankey) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, Lol you are welcome. And apparently it is increasing in “speed” too. Soon we will be all alone in the Universe, all of the galaxies are moving away from each other exponentially.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_4pO1sRt-E

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@blankey, perhaps I’m a bit of a hypocrit here, but I don’t buy it! I don’t think that space is actually expanding itself, I think these galaxies are accelerating via a force.

But – someone from a physics board would come on here and laugh at me and call me stupid as I have been doing to the previous posters of this board.

Lolz

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

“Static fields (either electric or gravitational) always point directly to the actual position of the bodies that they are connected to, without any delay that is due to any “signal” traveling (or propagating) from the charge, over a distance to an observer. This remains true if the charged bodies and their observers are made to “move” (or not), by simply changing reference frames. This fact sometimes causes confusion about the “speed” of such static fields, which sometimes appear to change infinitely quickly when the changes in the field are mere artifacts of the motion of the observer, or of observation.”
^The source was only wikipedia, so take it as you’d like. However, the last part of the paragraph is what I’d like to talk about.

‘Mere artifacts of the motion of the observer, or of observation’
I guess it really depends where your stance is about the impact of consciousness on reality.

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Eric (1,819)M (@blankey) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, Yeah, no it definitely is. It is completely 100% OBSERVABLE, meaning, it is a fact.

This is what won the Nobel Prize in 2011. :)

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