International Citizen?

Anonymous (@) 9 years, 6 months ago

I don’t know about you all, but I’m tired of being manipulated to do things I don’t believe in, to live a certain way, or percieve people in a certain light. All for the atavistic remainder of tribal antagonism, that is Nationalism. There are ignorant and enlightened people everywhere, and there are many problems to be solved, but I personally I’m ready to take the jump and become an international citizen, a citizen of earth. I really wish we could create a group that lives outside of, but in conjuction with, the nations of the world. Kinda of like the Templars in medieval Europe. What do you think about this?

June 3, 2012 at 5:51 pm
Muna (32) (@munmun) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

I totally agree with you. Being a citizen of the world/earth is a more important role than being a citizen of a country. It requires us to be less selfish and more concerned with all mankind’s welfare rather than just one’s own.

AAH! just think about people living like that! :D The patriotism someone showed towards her/his country transformed to patriotism towards ALL of the earth and all of mankind! how awesome would that be! and all of the world issues that would solve!

but how can we create a group to do that? what would the people be called? where would they live? create a country called Earth and live there? :P

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Anonymous (170) (@) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@munmun, we would have to live in many countries, or have a state like the vatican. Maybe an international citizens corporation could work, it would be beneficial for many countries to allow our existence if we have resources, and actively assist in humanitarian needs.

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LeftyLefty (3) (@leftylefty) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

I used to think exactly like you. and this is why I traveled a lot and lived in different countries. I came to a personal conclusion that each country offers something special that is neither better nor worse, just unique enough for me to be interested in their culture.

it goes against the current trend to be a global citizen, but I believe those who are truly patriotic in their countries are the ones who strive to keep their cultures alive and attractive to us the foreigners.

the mobility of the people is just as important as the sovereignty of each nation. there’s nothing wrong in feeling the need to live borderlessly, but it is also imperative that we respect the other cultures, including the languages and such. as a citizen of Earth, how willing are you to learn their languages and customs to adopt to their way of living without imposing yours (I’m not saying you’d be imposing, but my emphasis is on respect for other cultures)?

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Netto Germanicus (64) (@netto) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@leftylefty, that is a very good point you make about the preservation of cultures and It is very important that these “patriotic” persons ensure the survival of their culture. These people are not meant to move from place to place. Our society’s need people that don’t move around, because the current model does not allow freedom for all to travel. We need Dr’s, bakers and so on.

@imhotep, I was raised in two diff. countries and I can honestly say I am a culmination of both cultures. I actively took from both what I hold to be their strong points and I find myself a hybrid. I don’t consider myself either nationality and it’s always hard to get that point across to people. I am always asked “what are you?” and I always answer both or like Bruce Lee said “a human being”. I dream of a world without borders and nationalism, it just cuts people short of so many experiences because “they” don’t do that or “my people don’t do this”.
It would be awesome to have a nation or state that is called “Earth” and there is freedom to move about. Though I doubt it would be possible in this political climate…le sigh but we can dream of such a place and hopefully manifest our dreams.

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Anonymous (170) (@) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@leftylefty, I totally agree that we should respect and try to preserve distinct cultures. Cultures would survive a non-nationalist world, at least for quite away. Either way many will be swallowed by the gulf of time. I hope humans can preserve their cultures, and view those of other cultures as brothers and fellow citizens of the earth. The point is transcending tribal antagonism is much more important then losing a few customs. I have also traveled, as a matter of fact I love and respect my own unique culture ( Villcamba Tribe, Ecuador, Andes Mountains). But I see members of my culture and others, fall prey to exploitation. Many work for dollars a week, while you or I might bitcht about high taxes, from our recliners. The point is while their culture is important, engineering a better world is even more so. Because its not just human life at stake, but potentially all life.

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Anonymous (170) (@) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@netto, I agree man. I’m biracial and while I grew up in the U.S., I did spend some time in the home country. I was also fortunate enough to grow up around people from all around the world. So I tend to feel more comfortable in room with people from diverse backgrounds, and from distant places. So I can empathize with your experiences.

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LeftyLefty (3) (@leftylefty) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@imhotep, I agree, there’s a room for improvement in this world, especially the inequality you mentioned, but the changes have to come from an evolution, from the people, and hopefully not by engineering! and the citizens in each nation are responsible for the changes in their own country, it is not ours to decide. but this is how every culture stays so unique, right?

@netto, your last paragraph reminded me of Imagine by John Lennon. I’m a true believer of his words. unfortunately most people are too busy working making ends meet, to notice there’s an urgent need to change the status quo.

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Netto Germanicus (64) (@netto) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@leftylefty, some people are out there aching for someone like us to encourage them to take the leap. Like Lennon said “some people say I’m a dreamer, but I know I’m not the only one”. You perhaps are the catalyst to send someone on their journey. If you are expressing these feelings and these thoughts it is fact that you are capable of this. May the universe give you what you need and may you go after what you wish.

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LeftyLefty (3) (@leftylefty) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@netto, I concur, and I always do try to reach out to people I personally know to share what I have learned, and I can only hope that some of them will look for alternative means to discover the truth whatever it may be to them, and for themselves. ultimately it’s up to each one of us to decide what’s good for us.

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Muna (32) (@munmun) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

I think being citizens of Earth is simpler than it sounds. We don’t have to be living close to each other; each can work from her/his own country.
Baby steps.

We’ll start by doing good in our own country, people around us will get influenced by good deeds. Just imagine the whole world to be your own home, and the people around you are your family, which reminds me, we have a saying in Arabic: الناس لبعضها, which translates to ‘people are for each other’. This doesn’t translate the meaning well enough, it just sorta means that we, the people only have each other to help one another; we are not born to be enemies…

So back to the topic, with that perception of Earth and of the people around us, we will go from as simple as picking up any trash you see on the ground on your way home, and helping a lady with her groceries, to more proactive roles such as raising awareness about poverty/mistreatment of the elderly/etc.. (any major problem in our country) and getting more people to help you and get involved in being Earth citizens.

From a cultural point of view, nothing needs to change. Good deeds are good deeds. I do not believe cultures impede the process of helping one another. Thus, they do not need to be disrespected. However, I agree that there are some bad traits in every culture. This can be addressed by the Earth citizens; each one will know her/his culture better than any other Earth citizen, hence s/he will work from their own country.

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Anonymous (170) (@) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@leftylefty, so your implying that individuals aren’t agents of evolution. Also the greatest cultural paradigm shifts have directly resulted from the action of individuals, Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar, Charles Martel, Gengis Khan, Charlemagne. Not to mention the writers, mystics, philosophers, and scientist. I think its frankly illogical to discount the benfits of social engineering, if you’ve solved a problem, espescially one in which their’s a historical context, and therefore more than likely have empiricle data, it only logical to apply the solution to stream line the system. You also say that change has to come from the citizen of each nation. That would be fine if such a vast number of humans weren’t illiterate. You also have to take into account the Belle Curve, a great many humans simply don’t have the ability to contain all the permutations and factors necessary to make informed decisions about every aspect of their lives. Then you have the added factor of a predator top one percent, who are smart enough to use the illitericy and frankly stupidity, to dominate the markets, and control the resources. I’m sure they even foster stupidity, and illiteracy. Thats malicious social engineering. Take a look at the American education system and tell me something isn’t wrong. But you know what if there wasn’t consequences and we had all the time in the world, I would agree with you. Except we do not, the reality is we have a small window of opportunity to avert an ecological disaster. We humans need to transcendend our arrogance and realized that we are not lords of “creation”. Any loss of life due to our incompetence and stupidity, is a profound loss, and should, and must be remedied. So thats why we must take the shortest, most effient pathway to a new and better world.

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LeftyLefty (3) (@leftylefty) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@imhotep, there are 2 sides to every story, and you know that the ones who won the war, who concurred the world by violence wrote the history, and we know so little about the other side of the history. and we accepted only history we were taught in school. and it is way too premature to assume what those aforementioned “great minds” came up with was the best solution. but at the same time, you are right, it has been done that way, and perhaps the most of the citizens of the Earth weren’t / aren’t paying enough attention to the wellbeing of the world in order to be able to tell right from wrong.

and I’m glad you mentioned the current degeneration of the American education system, engineered by you know who! it’s just the tip of iceberg, and I’m sure you are very aware of other strange phenomena as a result of the current social engineering. that’s exactly what came to my mind as soon as I saw “social engineering” in your post. I think you and I share similar knowledge of what’s currently gong on.

and I can only guess, but maybe what you are implying is, that enlightened people need to wake up the others to lead us to a better world. I just believe that it’s should be done through revolution, and not necessarily by social engineering.

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Anonymous (170) (@) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@leftylefty, I agree the victors do write the history books. It is also inconsequential, as is whether they came up with the best solutions. My point was that individuals alone or working in tandem, can prevent or initiate a paradigm shift. Revolution at some level is necessary, but also extremely dangerous, and possibly deadly. That is because human mobs cannot be trusted, they will hand their freedoms over to the first smooth talking sociopath they encounter (Human masses are fluidic, they take the path of least resistance). This problem is compounded and made more frightening considering it would occur in a modern context, the destructive implications are dizzying. I think ultimately we need to change the type of Revolution and Social engineering thats applied. For instance, I think the Revolution (bottom up approach) should be of the mind and spirit, and it must reach critical mass. The Social Engineering (top down) would be different as well, instead of a corporate oligarch engineering his ever tightening grip around our necks, it would be an agregate of all applicable sciences working together to create a society with no socioeconomic stratification, deprevation, and squalor. Engineers to design the infrastructure, sociologist to design the social structure (broadly, its in humanities interest to keep cultures distinct as well). The best part about applying science, is that it has its own form of democracy, one of peer review through logic. So ultimately we should attempt both approaches, and hopefully we can meet in the middle.

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LeftyLefty (3) (@leftylefty) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@imhotep, I’m not a historian, so I can’t back my theory with quotes and events from the past, but from the little history I know, it has always been the oppressors vs oppressed, I can’t think of any example where the bottom up approach and the top down approach came together. correct me if I’m wrong though.

and a revolution doesn’t always have to be violent. remember the fall of Berlin wall? east Germans had been protesting twice a week for months leading up to the the fall of Berlin wall. some might argue it was also a controlled / engineered event to bring down the Soviet. but it was peaceful nonetheless.

anyways, I don’t have the right answer as to the solution, but in the current political climate, being a international citizen wouldn’t make your life free of manipulation and unwanted social engineering because practically most of the countries have corrupt governments.

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Anonymous (170) (@) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@leftylefty, I don’t define my goals and beliefs by what has been done, or what has not been done. I define them by the dictates of logic, and the indomitable inventive spirit of mankind. I also I’m not aware of a time in history where the bottom up approach and the top down approach coalesced. That in itself is no surprise, consider the level of science and technology necessary to accomplish, what could be considered one of man greatest achievments, engineering itself, has only been around for eighty years or less. We are an historic generation, one at cusp, of a transcendent society, or a depraved oligarchy. Never before have individuals been able to apply such advances in all areas, to the base questions, how should we live, how should we structure ourselves etc. Instead we are held in intellectual slavery, not by the shepherds, but by the other sheep. How you may ask? By being indoctrinated into the view that we at this point are the pinnacle of mankind, and that all major solution, have been thought up. Regardless of your reasoning, and personality (I consider both good), your idea only enables the current system to continue and florish, and for that reason is the most dangerous attitude of all. Here are some of my favorite quotes, for emphasis. “Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” Nikola Tesla

“Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds!” Bob Marley

“A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem.” Albert Einstein

“A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice.” Thomas Paine

“All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.” Thomas Jefferson

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Anonymous (170) (@) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

Internation citizenship at first would only serve a symbolic function.

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Alicia Lee (146) (@aliwine) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

I don’t think this will ever happen unless we discover how to move to other planets and discover new life. Another way to make you vs me- and start the whole cycle of oppression over again. It’s a great notion and I am sure many people already consider themselves as such.

I do like being able to classify myself by geological region though, just for the fact it symbolizes what type of environment and climate I live in and what sorts of beautiful things I get to see on a daily basis.

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LeftyLefty (3) (@leftylefty) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@imhotep, I agree with you completely, but you are leaving out the oppressor from the equation. The oligarchy will never come to the slaves to shake hands to work together. The reason we are slaves (mentally or financially, or however), is that they have been in control of our lives by dumbing us down. Sure it’s up to us to wake up, and I completely agree, and I do hope our minds can concur them. But at the same time, most of the sheeples are no longer willing to see the truth.

Even kindergarten kids can tell how to fix the inequality and all the nonsense in our society, but only a very small minority of us actually have a positive attitude to change it while overwhelming majority of the rest of us are watching TV minding their own businesses.

Without changing the course of this vicious circle, by revolution, even just to break from this curse, one beautiful mind alone will not solve anything.

And all the science and technology are useless unless we the people wake up and stand up against the oligarchy. What we need is individuals becoming more responsible for themselves and for their own society while maintaining the peace and order, and not a bigger government or more social engineering.

If we’re as evolved as you insist, why can’t we just live in direct democracy instead of accepting the current corrupt system? And I believe the American students today are probably unfortunstely the dumbest in its history. I don’t think we are that evolved as you give us (figuratively speaking up to young adults) credit for.

And going back to your original post, I don’t think becoming an international citizen would solve anything, not to mention there are probably at least 50% of the population who don’t want to live borderlessly.

By seriously, I do share the same frustration as you. Just like the bilderberg protest is getting bigger each year, there will be a time when everyone feels responsible to demonstrate.

And I always agree with Thomas Jefferson.

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LeftyLefty (3) (@leftylefty) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@imhotep, BTW, I think what you are after may be “living off the grid”. Basically you could start a commune or join one.

I was thinking about it seriously, and surprise surprise, I saw a posting on craigslist to start a commune! It didn’t go anywhere though, I only received one reply from the guy.

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1.61803399 (247) (@drunkmonkmeth) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

would be much better than my dual citizenship thats for sure.

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Anonymous (170) (@) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@leftylefty, I may do that. On the topic we seem to be at an impass. So thanks for a stimulating debate.

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Th-0m (43) (@0negative) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

I think the change to become an international citizen, is a personal philosophical decision. I’m not an American, I live in America.Or for someone else it’s “I’m not French, I just live here and speak the language”… etc. Labels just fuck everything up, becoming an international citizen, is pretty much up the person. Like the wise philosopher Uffie once said “I’m not owned by one nation, I’m a child of the world”

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Anonymous (170) (@) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

@0negative, good point man. I also like the quote.

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TheZinc (17) (@thezinc) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

I have been viewed myself as a citizen of the Earth for as long as I remember.. it’s only logical when you have a understanding of the limitless universe!

I still don’t understand this sense of nationalism and cultural superiority, makes me really wonder why I am here half the time and if I came at the right time :P

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Angelo (0) (@latocapollo) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

Here in the Philippines, we have a bad case of nationalism. Filipinos love taking credit for the achievements of individuals and goes on to discrediting our own who have different views to the perceived “majority”. You can find these people lurking around the net, on forums, in the media, the government, trying to force feed people with nationalism, and religious supremacy. It’s sick. People in here love making fun of other races yet when others make fun of us, they cry “foul!”. They even seem to have forgotten that most Filipinos are from mixed races.

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