I have been thinking about freewill. Does it exist – i haven’t decided. My thoughts go to ideas to schrodinger’s cat (if any wants to know about it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrödinger’s_cat this is good enough). Is life already decide and there is only one path you walk, and there only appear’s to be more? or is it like the cat in the box – many options which could possible happen and at the last moment reality conforms to show which is true?
I would really appreciate some other ideas on this subject
@filipek, Yes I control my thoughts. Don’t answer for me. And yes I have free will. If you and I were next to a cliff my control of my personal thought would restrain me from pushing you, or perhaps even encourage me to push you over. The only thing dictating that is my Free Will.
Now if I did push you over and you began falling to your death. You yourself have the free will to grab on to something to save yourself. Or if you so choose you can conveniently fall to your demise if you will it so.
The choice is yours and always has been yours.
Anyone that believes they have no free will and therefore unconsciously relieves themselves of one of our few inherent powers; you’re just shooting yourself in the foot and handicapping yourself severely with a diminishing returns type of mindset.
Good luck with life
@aestheticbrah, Really? So tell me what all your next thoughts for the coming hour will be then.
And you would lack the strength to push me over the edge, sorry to crush your illusion. It seems you have not understood what I was saying. No worries mate, some say ignorance is a bliss.
@filipek, Did I ever say that I’m going to tell you what my thoughts are for the coming hour are? Do you want me to tell you who’s going to win the football game? I don’t predict the future and nor do I ever claim I have that power.
We’re talking about free will so why don’t we keep it to free will?
My free will allow me to entertain ONLY the thoughts that I choose to do so
“OH WOE IS ME I HAVE NO FREE WILL OH NOES”
What a miserable mindset. I wouldn’t even want to wake up out of bed if I’m going to have such a morose depressing type of mindset weighing me down. What’s the point of even living life if you feel you have no free will? Will you be a product of your environment, of external influences, of mistakes of the past, etc? or will you be a product of the free will that is your inherent right and you so choose to utilize to the fullest?
Glad you think so buddy. Suffice to say gravity is more powerful than you and I combined.
@aestheticbrah, You say you have free will, which implies that you choose your thoughts. If you choose your thoughts, you know what you choose, do you not?
Who said there is a point in living? There is no point in living. Again, that is a concept made up by mankind. You live, you die, there is no point.
I do not create the conditions, the conditions are created for me. Wisdom knows what to do. Defilements let you believe that you have free will. That is sheer delusion.
Actually, who do you think you are? Have you chosen to be born? Who is you? Your body? Your thoughts? Do you even know what you are talking about?
@aestheticbrah, You avoid answering me due to your flawed believe of who you are. I question your most essential core believes and the logical consequence of this is that you get in defence mode.
Now, defence mode is on, the tunnel vision view you had is narrowing down even more. Not only that, but a wall of arrogance and ignorance is starting to build around you. No information from the outside can get through it anymore, and you cripple down even more into the shelter you have created.
Free will would mean that one could act outside of the place one lives in (the Universe). Since in the Universe everything is connected, every action has an equally strong but opposite reaction, it is not possible for an entity to encounter free will. This would tackle the balance, which is not possible. There cannot be an imbalance, there cannot be more or less than there is.
@MarthaMarks, everyone has the ability to make their own path, very few do. We are all conditioned by our parents and environments and without thinking we do what is acceptable to everyone else. We never stop to think of what else is a possibility for us. We don’t think outside the box until we are already most of the way down our current path. We decide then it’s too late, all I have done will be for nothing. The what? What will people think?
So yea I believe we have free will but we don’t use it enough. We are acting and speaking and making decisions without thinking about all the other options and possibilities because we are conditioned to think of very few possibilities, the ones society, our failu and friends push on us.
@filipek, Free will would mean that one could act outside of the place one lives in (the Universe).
it does not mean that.(your concept of free will is obviously different from mine). everything contained in this universe is bounded to it, i cannot transcend this universe because it was “willed” so by the infinite creator (much stronger will and intent than i posses).
“Since in the Universe everything is connected, every action has an equally strong but opposite reaction, it is not possible for an entity to encounter free will. This would tackle the balance, which is not possible. There cannot be an imbalance, there cannot be more or less than there is.”
the universe was started because of an imbalance (the shift from nothing to something and vice-versa). this imbalance was brought about due to consciousness realizing its self(unity/1 which according to math is an imbalance)… anyways this boils down to the view we have on the universe (which is different). you can believe you dont have free will that’s fine by me. im content with doing the opposite…
@aestheticbrah, That is not free will, that is merely a consequence of earlier conditions.
@thoughtless, Yet I believe that something like free will does not exist. Free will would mean that there is somebody controlling what is happening.
Actually I addressed this question to youuniverse, but he was too busy to belittle me and avoid my questions. Maybe you can answer me?
Also regarding the existence of the Universe, I believe that it always existed. It may have been born infinite times, but birth is not the start of something new, it is just a continuation of something else in a different from.
@filipek, There’s version that makes sense, but it’s too controversial.
“The most sinister part of The Matrix in which you now live is that you have been cajoled and convinced to suppress your own free will and surrender to the manipulators who control not just your mind, but your entire reality.
As Edward Bernays (Freud’s nephew), the father of modern propaganda, explained:
If we understand the mechanisms and motives of the group mind, it is now possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without them knowing it… We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of…
In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons… who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
So, in terms of being influenced by external conditions like the environment and intrinsic like our DNA, then free will would be part creating those conditions ourselves in relation to the world around us.
According to Freud the Id has two drives, sex and aggression. Reactions between those forces of “will” to make decisions prevent our free will. But this is another claim that is opposed by our way of instinctual control and figuring out peaceful “drives”.
In my opinion there’s nothing of those bollocks. We’re neither unconsciously under absolute control, neither completely decisive. We have the power to kill ourselves. Why are we then confused when suicides happen? So if we have the power to control the conditions for ourselves, the power to change and survive in water since babyhood, then we must have a percent of free will because even our genetic code changes a little.
Another factor is neurolinguistics and psycholinguistics. I’ve never heard before of the concept of free will in my native language, except when reading about the hard to believe God’s will. :)
freewill is all that is! the entire universe on all dimensions and levels is simply consciousness choosing! and choosing what ever the fu*k it feels like doing!
i can liken it to how a computer is built – you put together the hardware.(1st choice) and from that hardware you are limited by the capabilities(laws) that hardware is capable of, so from what you can choose from at that level would be to install an operating system so you install windows, now you’re limited by the capabilities(laws) of the windows operating system and windows is limited by the laws of the hardware, so and then maby you go to play a game now your limited to the laws of that game,the physics , rules what ever.. etc etc and it works just like that!
that’s why people don’t get the answer, because they’re operating from the wrong choice point to work with that question. you don’t find it by operating in the choice point you’re in now (physical human existence) you have to go BACK to the beginning to find out
Consciousness Choosing. = the entire universe
please feel free to ask me questions :)
@MarthaMarks, free will. limitations occur yes, but we have free minds. Free minds=free will. I was not predetermined to say this either. Unless some unknown force made me write this. I have an open mind and all , but I am going to guess on this one and say I chose to do so, although I am may be wrong. Anyone want to bet me?
i think that our options are limited in this “free-will” world. think about an ant house that believes they have complete control of the limits of their power. they don’t know that they are no longer in their native world and that they have potential to live in a greater extent. Put people in concrete boxes, give them limited windows to their true nature. Then inject fear on to things that cant be controlled (death, thought, spirituality) and give them infinite man-made choices to follow (doctor, teacher, actor). As long as the organism has its essential needs like sex and food and shelter covered, they wont question freedom. We wont question free will.
I actually chuckled reading this. Brought back good memories of myself being in super confused mode;something I’m rarely in. I tend to pick up and decrypt things quite easily, but for sure this one stumped me. This idea of of free-will and pre-destiny came up in my philosophy class. I ultimately was not handed over good conclusion to it in that class. Funny thing is I still keep in contact with the professor here and there.
Well my 2 cents on this topic is that we are both pre destined and also have freewill. You ask how is this so? Go ahead and stand up. Now lift up one leg;freewill, now lift up both legs while standing;predestined. There are somethings that we can choose, while somethings limit us. Be it our physical body or environment. Somethings are predestined. For example our genes, our biological mother and father or ethnicity. Those all count as predestined. But we have choice! We can choose to be hurtful of others, to lie, to cheat, to hate or to kill. But we also have the choice to give, to bless, to love, to cherish, to hug or to laugh. We have choice over our actions and can even train ourselves to have choice of our very own thoughts.
This answer only proves that we are of all one species. Does not matter if you’re black, Asian, White, or Arab. We are all equal. We did not have the choice to be born into this world with the sex or race of our choosing so why should we be judged or limited by it.
There is another example that I like to use to answer this. Let me know if anyone is interested.