Is Vegan logic rational??

 Baba (@myselfbaba22) 8 years, 9 months ago

This is only a doubt of mine. I have seen people who do not eat meat cos they think its wrong to kill life. Agreed that animals have life and we are killing them as before we make the dish. But dont plants have life too? So by the same logic shouldnt one also not eat plant stuffs?! Well i have heard people repartee that animals feel pain but plants dont so as to rationalise their stand. Well then give the animals a shot of analgesic before you cut their neck. They wouldnt feel pain either?! And as a matter of fact, since half a century back its been know that even plants feel pain. So this vegan thing, as a means to test our own will or as a measure of discipline is fine, but as a logic guided decision, is it rational indeed or am i missing something?!

January 10, 2013 at 9:49 am
savmot (135) (@savmot) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@hollowinfinity, That’s the point though isn’t it. It’s not needed anymore.

‘ I don’t want some designer food in my system. I want real food.’

I’m willing to bet that you put a fair amount of crap in your body just because you like it. Soda and processed food and the like. You’ll probably deny this and be the healthiest eater in the world for the sake of this argument, because that’s what people do when discussing veganism, everyone suddenly kills their own cows and eats no processed food ever. The point is, you probably, if you are anything like the average joe eat a lot of ‘unreal’ food, including much of your meat. ;)
It’s also good that you ‘want’ real food, but that doesn’t make it a necessity. You eat meat because you want to and that is fine, we all have different morals and what is important to me does not have to be important to you, but meat is not a necessity.

Yes, I’m sure I kill bacteria, and I’ve probably stood on an ant before, but is that a reason to support the meat and dairy industry?

I might as well say ‘Oh well, I’ve stood on an ant, I might as well go on a shooting rampage and kill a load of people and start torturing kittens’.

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Nakedape (112) (@nakedape) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

Join the plant based diet club, and be in good company..

“For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love.”

– Pythagoras

“In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they’re the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought.”

“Even in the worm that crawls in the earth there glows a divine spark. When you slaughter a creature, you slaughter God.”

“As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.”

– Isaac Bashevis Singer

“But for the sake of some little mouthful of meat, we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy.”

“Let us ask what is best, not what is customary. Let us love temperance – let us be just – let us refrain from bloodshed. None is so near the gods as he who shows kindness.”

– Seneca

“My refusing to eat flesh occasioned an inconveniency, and I was frequently chided for my singularity, but, with this lighter repast, I made the greater progress, for greater clearness of head and quicker comprehension. Flesh eating is unprovoked murder.”

– Benjamin Franklin

“The Gods created certain kinds of beings to replenish our bodies; they are the trees and the plants and the seeds.”

– Plato

“Nonviolence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all living beings, we are all savages.”

– Thomas Edison

“A man can live and be healthy without killing animals for food; therefore, if he eats meat, he participates in taking animal life merely for the sake of his appetite.”

“If a man’s aspirations towards a righteous life are serious.. if he earnestly and sincerely seeks a righteous life, his first act of abstinence is from animal food, because, not to mention the excitement of the passions produced
by such food, it is plainly immoral, as it requires an act contrary to moral feeling, i. e., killing – and is called forth only by greed.”

“It is horrible! It is not the suffering and the death of the animals that is horrible, but the fact that the man without any need for so doing crushes his lofty feeling of sympathy and mercy for living creatures and does violence to himself that he may be cruel. The first element of moral life is abstinence.”

“As long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields.”

– Leo Tolstoy

“Truly man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds them. We live by the death of others. We are burial places! I have since an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men will look upon the murder of animals as they look upon the murder of man.”

– Leonardo Da Vinci

“We have seen that the senses and intuitions, the various emotions and faculties, such as love, memory, attention and curiosity, imitation, reason, etc., of which man boasts, may be found in an incipient, or even sometimes in a well-developed condition, in the lower animals.”

“There is no fundamental difference between man and the higher mammals in their mental faculties … The difference in mind between man and the higher animals, great as it is, certainly is one of degree and not of kind.”

“The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man.”

– Charles Darwin

“My situation is a solemn one. Life is offered to me on condition of eating beefsteaks. But death is better than cannibalism. My will contains directions for my funeral, which will be followed not by mourning coaches, but by oxen, sheep, flocks of poultry, and a small traveling aquarium of live fish, all wearing white scarfs in honor of the man who perished rather than eat his fellow creatures.”

“The average age of a meat-eater is 63. I am on the verge of 85 and still at work as hard as ever. I have lived quite long enough and am trying to die; but I simply cannot do it. A single beef-steak; would finish me; but I cannot bring myself to swallow it. I am oppressed with a dread of living forever. That is the only disadvantage of vegetarianism”

“Think of the fierce energy concentrated in an acorn! You bury it in the ground, and it explodes into an oak! Bury a sheep, and nothing happens but decay.”

“While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth?”

“A mind of the caliber of mine cannot derive its nutriment from cows.”

“Animals are my friends…and I don’t eat my friends.”

– George Bernard Shaw

“It is certainly preferable to raise vegetables, and I think, therefore, that vegetarianism is a commendable departure from the established barbarous habit. That we can subsist on plant food and perform our work even to advantage is not a theory, but a well-demonstrated fact. Many races living almost exclusively on vegetables are of superior physique and strength. There is no doubt that some plant
food, such as oatmeal, is more economical than meat, and superior to it in regard to both mechanical and mental performance. Such food, moreover, taxes our digestive organs decidedly less, and, in making us more contented and sociable, produces an amount of good difficult to estimate. In view of these facts every effort should be made to stop the wanton and cruel slaughter of animals, which must be destructive to our morals. ”

– Nikola Tesla

“One farmer says to me, ‘You cannot live on vegetable food solely, for it furnishes nothing to make bones with;’ and so he religiously devotes a part of his day to supplying his system with the raw material of bones; walking all the while he talks behind his oxen, which, with vegetable-made bones, jerk him and his lumbering plow along in spite of every obstacle.”

“I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

– Henry David Thoreau

“You have just dined, and however scrupulously the slaughterhouse is concealed in the graceful distance of miles, there is complicity.”

– Ralph Waldo Emerson

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”

“To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being. I should be unwilling to take the life of a lamb for the sake of the human body.”

– Mohandas Ghandi

“If man is not to stifle his human feelings, he must practice kindness towards animals, for he who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals.”

– Immanuel Kant

“Vegetarian food leaves a deep impression on our nature. If the whole world adopts vegetarianism, it can change the destiny of humankind.”

“Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.”

– Albert Einstein

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Dan (890) (@danfontaine) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@nakedape, I’m smarter than those old fucks.

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Dan (890) (@danfontaine) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@nakedape, They cling to ying.

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@savmot, I actually don’t remember stating I agree or support the meat or dairy industry. It is ideal to get your meats local, without chems and meds- same with plants for that matter, or just catch and gut your own fish. The world isn’t perfect, but I know what I know, and I know meat is good for you, and pretty much necessary.

Sure, all the food I eat isn’t ‘good’- there’s a lot of shit in my food, but it’s also quite hard to even be able to afford, let alone find decent and pure food anywhere. I do take steps towards ‘perfecting’ my diet though. If I had it my way, food would never be shipped anywhere. You’d rely on yourselves and your local farmers.

Read, “Our Kind” -they make you read that in most Anthro 101 classes. You’ll see where I am coming from.

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

Honestly, everyone would be better off if they stuck to a vegetarian 90% of the time, and did a 5% Fish and 5% everything else you need diet.

Still though, you are putting the value of certain animals in higher regard than other life-forms. Like I said, we share 25% DNA with a banana. It’s like eating your distant cousin. NOM- They sure are delicious though.

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Anonymous (2,654) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

Interesting that Gandhi loved a lamb. Jesus ate a lamb.

(I can’t contribute to this thread, because you’re talking too much about food and it’s making me nauseas.)

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

If you press a vegan lifestyle on the grounds of morality, you should press not using any kind of life for food- So then we can chemically make all of our food, and we can all die very young and all have cancer.

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Nakedape (112) (@nakedape) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@beyond,

If it’s true, I’m sure Jesus had his reasons.

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Nakedape (112) (@nakedape) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@beyond,

Found this video online – bit over the top, but I still wonder whether he would have really eaten lamb.

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Anonymous (2,654) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@nakedape, It is really over the top. Hope this thread doesn’t turn into a vegan/religious debate because I think I’m gonna search for the nearest exit and start conversing with a lump of butter.

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Nakedape (112) (@nakedape) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@beyond,

I’ve never conversed with a lump of butter, but I’m sure it has its appeals.

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Anonymous (2,654) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@nakedape, Haha, well I meant that I’m gonna lose my mind with so much religious debates and food diets. But I guess I am wondering something about Vegans. Is it true that they don’t even eat honey?

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Dan (890) (@danfontaine) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

Look. You eat a living organism and it is gracing you with its essence. There is no shame in gratitude all the while there is no shame in death. Death by the hand of a victor is glory nonetheless.
Get the fuck over yourselves.
I repeat: Empathy is a selfish trait.

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Nakedape (112) (@nakedape) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@beyond, NO HONEY!! FOR THE LOVE OF THE BEES! lol just kidding, but yeah, no honey for vegans. Unfortunate considering honey is an extremely healthy super food.

@danfontaine, I shouldn’t, but tell me more about your philosophy on life.

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savmot (135) (@savmot) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@hollowinfinity saying vegans should eat no forms of life is like telling meat eaters they should eat people.

Anyone who can’t see a difference between a cow and a cucumber is an idiot or a liar.

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@savmot, Actually, that is not similar at all. And I bet you half meat eaters would at least try human if offered.
You say, “Anyone who can’t see a difference between a cow and a cucumber is an idiot or a liar.”
That may be a modern view of the subject, but who knows how that will change in a couple thousand years, right? As we learn more about what life is, we may make a lot of moral changes. As it stands, my morals jive well enough for me to eat meat.

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@savmot, Kind of offtopic/ontopic question: Where do you get your water from?

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

OH NO IT HAS EYES. -chops down tree because it doesn’t scream-

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

Everyone should just jam out to “Never Ending Math Equation” by Modest Mouse while reading this thread. lol

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

http://www.laurelofleaves.com/2012/04/a-vegan-diet-is-not-healthy/
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/healthy-living/how-our-vegan-diet-made-us-ill-848322.html

Food for thought (lawl)

Seriously though- If you wanna be all vegan and shit-its your body. If you try to raise a kid vegan, you are being a bad parent.

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Dan (890) (@danfontaine) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@nakedape, I grew tired of philosophizing a while back.

Realized I am a turning and that the only reason for this motion is growth. The universe is at my disposal. So long as I am gracious and vigilant I am worthy.

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1.61803399 (247) (@drunkmonkmeth) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

I know where my meat comes from the majority of the time. I’m not for animal cruelty but I’m not cruel to any animals so why should I feel bad about eating their delicious flesh?

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Dan (890) (@danfontaine) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@drunkmonkmeth, The fuck you shouldn’t! It’s delicious for a good reason……….
@savmot, sorry, I really can’t. I must be lying.

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Dan (890) (@danfontaine) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

We should really be eating our meat raw though…. cooking it ruins it. I think the best diet possible avoids cooked meat while incorporating whatever raw animal products that are digestible without putting yourself at serious risk for disease – raw, wild seafood/shellfish, insects, raw free-range grass fed natural eggs/whole milk.

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