Is Vegan logic rational??

 Baba (@myselfbaba22) 8 years, 9 months ago

This is only a doubt of mine. I have seen people who do not eat meat cos they think its wrong to kill life. Agreed that animals have life and we are killing them as before we make the dish. But dont plants have life too? So by the same logic shouldnt one also not eat plant stuffs?! Well i have heard people repartee that animals feel pain but plants dont so as to rationalise their stand. Well then give the animals a shot of analgesic before you cut their neck. They wouldnt feel pain either?! And as a matter of fact, since half a century back its been know that even plants feel pain. So this vegan thing, as a means to test our own will or as a measure of discipline is fine, but as a logic guided decision, is it rational indeed or am i missing something?!

January 10, 2013 at 9:49 am
Dan (890) (@danfontaine) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

Don’t get me wrong though, our diet should consist of at least 40% vegetation, with very limited grains, oats, potatoes, corn, etc (the weeds).

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1.61803399 (247) (@drunkmonkmeth) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@danfontaine, cooking meat = digests easily = smaller stomach = bigger brain.

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savmot (135) (@savmot) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@hollowinfinity, ‘As it stands, my morals jive well enough for me to eat meat.’

So eat meat, nobody is telling you not to.

There’s no point in giving me links to how bad a vegan diet is for your health, I can find you an equal amount of sources telling you it’s the healthiest diet in the world. That’s the internet for ya!
As I stated earlier in this thread I know that I am eating healthier and getting more nutrients than ever before because I am paying more attention to what I eat.

That aside, I’m not a vegan for my health.

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@nakedape, Fail. Those quotes just go to show just how irrational this vegan “logic” is.

@savmot, How many insects and other small critters die to the pesticide just so you can eat your veggies?
And you know what, rodents and such die very slowly and very painfully from that stuff. The kind of death that you wouldn’t wish for your worst enemy, yet its ok just so you can eat your plants and think you’re better than the rest of us…

At least the slaughterhouse animals are killed quickly, they barely feel a thing. They even give them tranquillizers. The little critters that step in your plantations die slowly, painfully, due to various organ failures and nervous system damage.
And you don’t even eat them. You just kill them because you want their food, the plants, which you could get without killing them.

Plants do feel pain and fear, that’s scientifically proven. A plant even reacts when a nearby plant is harvested.

You’re a mass murderer, so is your mother, the cute little kitties, and everyone else. Face the facts, don’t be such a holier-than-thou hypocrite.

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KevinSG (105) (@flyingrhino) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

My mother has been a vegan for nearly 20 years, and her muscles are no longer strong enough to open a door at the mall. Point is, I’ve seen the lifestyle deteriorate a body. The body’s logic is if it’s not getting or using it, it doesn’t need to be built.

On the teeth thing, we only really have 4(?) teeth for meat, so our diet should somewhat be proportioned to that.

Me? I’m a meat lover. Meat going in to my body is meat being used by my body. Sure, I’ve seen some people live strongly vegan, but they use supplements. My diet supports my lifestyle.

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@flyingrhino, “On the teeth thing, we only really have 4(?) teeth for meat, so our diet should somewhat be proportioned to that.”
I like that.

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savmot (135) (@savmot) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@manimal,
‘ yet its ok just so you can eat your plants and think you’re better than the rest of us…’

When have I said I think I’m better than anyone. All I’ve said is that I choose not to eat animal products. I wish to minimise the suffering I cause to others. I don’t believe that the exploitation of animals is right. I am going to live to my beliefs as much as it is possible for me to do so.

I am aware that other things die in the process of creating my food, and I am aware that plants are living things (though you need to do stuff research on plants feeling pain, as it has not been proven by any means) but it’s a case of minimising the effect I have on the earth.
You seem to be suggesting that if I kill one thing, I might as well think fuck it, I’ll kill everything…

What is hypocritical about that?

Do you think that is wrong of me to want to live in a way that I believe is right?

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Nickole (67) (@squishy) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@manimal, “At least the slaughterhouse animals are killed quickly, they barely feel a thing”

You’re joking right?? They are tortured there whole lives.

On this note, I can’t even post to this anymore, you do what you think is right, and I will do what I think is right.

But, you should probably look into what actually happens in factory farms and slaughterhouses before you make statements like that.

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

Alright, how about this- Anyone ever been to a slaughterhouse or factory farm? Is all of this information obtained via documentaries-that are trying to make it look as bad as possible-or legitimate sources? We all know about the issues with this area in the past, but I can say personally I am not as knowledgeable about modern times. I mean, I know the obvious-but I don’t know the care.

Most of you have pets-granted you aren’t trying to eat your pet-but who the fuck are you to say, “Once wild animal-you are my house slave now”?

Unless you buy pure organic, and have been to the farms yourself, or grow yourself-how do you justify the use of so many pesticides, killing insects, rodents, etc.

ALSO- If you are a vegan because you care about animal rights, or w/e behooves you, would you not eat an animal that has just died in front of you. It’s not your fault they died, you had nothing to do with it. You are going to let that food just waste? Why? It is good for you.

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Kidd (1,059) (@kidd) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

I’m curious as to what vegans and vegetarians think about hunting.

Slaughterhouses are one thing–animals are treated so poorly and pumped full of hormones and shit. They’re often tortured before death simply because people don’t care.

But hunting? Animals are free and fair game up until that truly quick and painless death. They’re all natural, too, free of growth hormones and the like. (Also healthier to eat.)

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E.C.F. Doyle (346) (@chekovchameleon) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

I see no moral problem with eating meat. Especially pigs, cows, sheep and chickens. Factory farms are one thing, but I live in Ireland and most of our meat is cruelty free. I’ve been in slaughterhouses and have never seen any cruelty, in fact it seems like a very easy cruelty free process. That is here anyway I cannot speak for other countries. Any way if we didn’t eat the animals listed above, or any of there bi-products we would have to just kill them all. They have no place in the food chain we have bred them specifically for food. If you released a cow into the wild how long do you think it would last? It wouldn’t be able to feed itself and would have no protection from predators. The human body is designed to eat meat.
I think vegan lifestyle is extremely unhealthy. You need certain proteins from animals. You can at least get some of them from eggs and milk, but you can not get them from vegetables and fruit alone.

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

If your only argument to be vegan is because of slaughterhouses then that is a stupid fucking choice-sorry. You do not have to support that industry. You can work with local farmers and get good, healthy, and happy meat. In fact, you can eat meat-be healthy- and fight what you are bitching about at the same time.

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E.C.F. Doyle (346) (@chekovchameleon) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

Plus who doesn’t like a nice steak.

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

Plus plus, Why has no one talked about fish? What do vegans think about fish? Why is that so bad to eat?

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savmot (135) (@savmot) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@kidd, ‘I’m curious as to what vegans and vegetarians think about hunting’

I think hunting for sport is reprehensible. Hunting for food, I think if you want to eat meat then hunting is the way to get it. Though I’d hardly say it’s fair game unless you’re chasing it with a spear.

@hollowinfinity,
‘Plus plus, Why has no one talked about fish? What do vegans think about fish? Why is that so bad to eat?’

Google is your friend. I’ll give you a run down. Most fishing is done with trawlers. Big nets that drag through the ocean collecting everything, whether needed or not which is extremely damaging.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2000/dec/15/fish.food1
http://www.greenpeace.org/australia/en/news/oceans/top-10-facts-about-super-trawlers/
http://endoftheline.com/film

‘If your only argument to be vegan is because of slaughterhouses then that is a stupid fucking choice-sorry.’

Why do we have to have an argument to be vegan…? No one is trying to make you be vegan, so why are you and others on this thread so insistent on attacking other peoples decisions.

‘would you not eat an animal that has just died in front of you. It’s not your fault they died, you had nothing to do with it.’

No, because I don’t like meat, (apart from maybe the odd piece of chicken) I have no desire to eat it. Not that it’s relevent, because I’ve never had an animal drop down dead in front of me yet!

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savmot (135) (@savmot) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@hollowinfinity, ‘how do you justify the use of so many pesticides, killing insects, rodents, ‘

Are you reading any of the posts on here?
Here is a quote from a post about 6 posts up above yours in response to manimals comments about pesticides killing insects and rodents.

‘I am aware that other things die in the process of creating my food, and I am aware that plants are living things (though you need to do stuff research on plants feeling pain, as it has not been proven by any means) but it’s a case of minimising the effect I have on the earth.
You seem to be suggesting that if I kill one thing, I might as well think fuck it, I’ll kill everything…’

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Nakedape (112) (@nakedape) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@manimal, Which person were you in disagreement with? Einstein, Tesla, Gandhi, Darwin, Emerson, Thoreau, Seneca, Edison, Kant, Pythagorus, Franklin, Singer, Plato, Tolstoy or Shaw? Just want to narrow it down so we can have a rational discussion..

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Anonymous (1) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

Deer are heavily overpopulated, especially in michigan. They f up the ecosystem and they cause thousands of car crashes a year. That should be enough justification right there to just frickin eat some meat. Its tasty too.

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Nakedape (112) (@nakedape) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@mmccready77, Or build a wildlife crossing and eat a carrot.

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Stoney Baloney (614) (@adamm0ss) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

It is logical if you agree with it. If you don’t, than its not very logical.

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Mike M (13) (@mikem) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

Vegans make an ethical assessment that it is “wrong” to kill animals and then make a conscious personal decision to therefore not eat animals. They envision humans evolving toward a vegetarian existence. (If we ever learn how to metabolize sunlight directly you can bet there will be people saying it’s wrong to eat plants too).

All this is fine. However, being a moral relativist, I will object to anyone telling me that humans eating animals is inherently wrong.

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Celeste (47) (@abc123) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@myselfbaba22, I was thinking about this the other day as well. And I got to the same conclusion that you reached, about animals eating other animals, and vegetables as well. I don’t see any monkeys rounding out a group for the protection of banana rights. I got to 2 final points why the thing is different with humans and animals. First, other animals are totally inmerse in the “cycle of life” they would actually give back and take it’s place in the other side of the chain when it’s their time, I don’t know, I think is far most equilibrated; and the second, which I found to be the reason to actually don’t eat animals in the actual state of the food industry, is the fact that we completely disrespect animals. A tiger wiill run after a zebra and the best out of the two will win, the zebra has it’s opportunity to survive if he shows himself to be better than the tiger in that particular encounter, it is a battle for survival, but everyone has a chance. We don’t give animals a chance, we don’t treat themn as animals, we think that is our given right to eat them just because we know how to build a fence, we don’t allow them to fight for their lives, we don’t prove ourselves to be better and to be worthy, by know we treat animals like vegetables, we cultivate them, grow them, and use them when we feel like it, and that doesn’t make sense, it just shows how useless we are, if most of us were left in a jungle we probably wouldn’t show to be warthy and will die in one day, which ois the way it should be, because we would be the weakest link of the chain. So the day we start treating animals with the respect they deserve, in the way that we are going to sacrifice them so we can survive, and for that, give them a fighting chance and prove aourselves to be better and worthy in a fair fight, then it would be totally fine to eat them.

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Nakedape (112) (@nakedape) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@mikem, You may be correct in the assessment that from a moral relativism view it is not ‘inherently wrong’ to kill and eat animals, would you also agree, from a moral relativist view that Hitler was a nice guy?

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E.C.F. Doyle (346) (@chekovchameleon) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@mmccready77, I’m not vegan but the fact that they cause car crashes isn’t really justification. Like I mean we built the road where they live. That’s not there fault. But yeah meat is good.

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@savmot, “Why do we have to have an argument to be vegan…? No one is trying to make you be vegan, so why are you and others on this thread so insistent on attacking other peoples decisions.”

I didn’t start the thread, I just think being vegan is kind of odd when the argument is animal cruelty. If you hunt and fish on your own or work with local farmers, I don’t see how anyone can use that argument.

Why is it only fair if we chase animals with a spear? We are smarter, we win. That is the way it works. I’m hungry, and that animal is delicious. I will appreciate the fuck out of its life, and what it has done for me, but I will not go hungry over the idea that animals out there have a bad life.

“‘I am aware that other things die in the process of creating my food, and I am aware that plants are living things (though you need to do stuff research on plants feeling pain, as it has not been proven by any means) but it’s a case of minimising the effect I have on the earth.
You seem to be suggesting that if I kill one thing, I might as well think fuck it, I’ll kill everything…’”
-No one is suggesting that because things die, you can just kill everything. Eating is a fact of life. I find it ironic that people are trying to minimize their effect on Earth as an argument. How much energy are you wasting, right now? Do you turn the water off when you shampoo and brush your teeth? Do you recycle everything? If you don’t, then you are part of the cause for countless, countless death across the entire globe. Do you give to charity and help the fellow man, everywhere you go? If you don’t then you are responsible as well for the starvation of so many people on this globe.

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