I haven’t actually created a post in a while, so my surprise when this enteres my brain. I had to share it.
So it dawned on me today while I was driving around and showering and whatnot:
When people ask about a spiritual world, god, deity, etc. I have always tried to express my understanding of this feeling as being aware of the presence of an absolute governing our relative world. We, as relative beings, can never truly perceive the absolute, but we can sense it. Our perspective of relativity is limited to only knowing OUR perceptions…but the fact that, despite the instability of relativity, we remain present…this awareness (I believe, at least) clues our kind in on the fact that something is holding up our houses of cards.
So, when someone says “There has to be something more than just us…this can’t be it,” I agree entirely referencing the absolute body governing us. The entity/concept/thing that can perceive all of existence at once, from past to future. This is the world of God (so that which perceives absolute will be termed “God” from this view).
What I never thought about though (the idea/epiphany part of this story) is how an absolute entity might be limited in the oh so familiar idea of a present.
Imagine knowing how the game started and how it ends…can you go back to subjectivity from there? You can perceive every single thread of behavior and biology that will ultimately lead to a person becoming who they are. We, as relative creatures, lack the capacity to see from start to finish clearly…but is that truly something we lack or, perhaps, something we champion.
What if we are the champions of present?
If you see every decimal place to infinity, then all moments are one moment…but not for us. We have the ability to CREATE moments. We have the POWER to live more than once in each fractional, unimaginable increment of time-space.
We are the keepers of present, and we work with that which maintains the absolute to create existence.
This is really beautiful. If you believe in reincarnation or a higher self or whatever, then that is why you are put on earth into a body. Though humans are “limited” by time and space, life on earth has value because time and space provide a really good opportunity to learn and grow. I guess the idea that “we are all god” applies here. We are just an overarching consciousness’s expression within the realm of… where we are. On earth. It doesn’t make us any less important. If life on earth was just limiting and has no value, why would consciousness choose to manifest itself here?
@lytning91, Same here. I’m not sure if I necessarily believe what I just said, but it is a way of thinking that makes a lot of sense. I have changed a lot in my beliefs too. I used to see the world as either governed by the Christian God or not at all. I thought the debate was just God vs. no God. It is so much more complex than that. I am currently starting to write a paper about near-death experiences and their affect on spirituality (seriously the most exciting paper I have ever written!) And I have done some research about them before. What is surprising is that a lot of them seem to point to this way of thinking. Christians, atheists, and new-age thinkers alike tend to say similar things. That they entered into another dimension outside of space and time, they experienced a lot of love, and they often “spoke” (more like like interacted with because the realm is outside of senses) with a being. This being is described as God or a higher self that put them in their bodies for a reason. Some people say that they themselves chose their life on earth before birth and were unaware of it before the near-death experience. All very interesting stuff.
Not trying to convince you of anything, just showing you where I am coming from. It is okay to be unsure of what to believe, I think. Chances are, once you decide to believe something concrete you’re wrong. Truth is like a brilliant sun that shines down on us. We can see its light but if we look directly at it we will go blind. Of course, that is a belief in itself so there is a paradox there! ;) I have found that it is best to take comfort in knowing that I cannot know, and operating based on what I perceive to be the most true, always knowing that this can change and not holding fast to any beliefs.
@lytning91, It is the fact that we do not know the absolute (yet) that allows us to create our own “absolute.” If we did see from the absolute, why would we create? We simply use the universe and its law to create/choose the present moment. Neither the universe nor us has a choice in this. We choose what we create, whether we are aware of it or not, and it is created. It can not happen any other way. That is simply how it must be in order for us to be able to create, so that we may experience what we are not, thus choosing who/what we are. Does this make sense?
DeepWithin speaks the truth, at least if Jesus=God (how you, lytning91, defined it). You are a part of the absolute (God), yet you are experiencing and creating your own version of what that means to you.
Really fuckin cool stuff!
@dylmill, I’d side with all of that except maybe the part about us creating who we are based on this present power. I believe we have a present perspective which gives us the ability to create unique perception simultaneously, but I wouldn’t trace that to any physical manifestations.
When we start talking about that kind of stuff it becomes more of a blend of the absolute’s blue prints with our reactive processing ability. The trouble, though, lies in what the absolute is and how it reacts with our subjectivity.
If there is an absolute which can see beginning and end, it sees EXACTLY who we are, so how can we have power to create ourselves?
@lytning91, “If there is an absolute which can see beginning and end, it sees EXACTLY who we are, so how can we have power to create ourselves?”
Because it sees the end only as we create it. There is no pre-determined “future,” merely limitless possibility. The absolute/God sees all the possibilities, but does not control which you choose. Only you do, although you originate from this absolute/God.
As for thought and physical manifestation, thought is what creates our physical world. Thoughts, being energy, attract like energy, therefore the LOA and all that other stuff is merely referencing how you bring into your world what you put enough energy into. It’s always a matter of transference of energy. All the energy/possibilities are already there, all YOU have to do is bring them to you. All thought is creative. The more energy you put into something, the better you get at it/the more of it you understand and have. Thought is one sort of energy, as is physically doing something. Doing, saying, thinking are your tools to BE what you want, and once you BE what you want, you have it. There seems to be a time delay between your thought and its manifestation, but that is merely because you are not BEING what you want to have or be. Thought is simply a step to that. The better you get at this, the less of a “time delay” you experience between your thoughts and their manifestations.
“The absolute/God sees all the possibilities, but does not control which you choose. Only you do, although you originate from this absolute/God.”
This I call into question. Fundamentally this is something we could never know as fact. The interaction of ourselves with the absolute will never all us a clear view of exactly how we overlap. At a basic level, it’s the free will/determinism argument.
@lytning91, That quote merely states that you have unlimited free choice, you can choose between any possible opportunity/possibility you wish. There is no limit to your choosing. Whether or not we weave our relationship with the absolute in this discussion does not really matter. You can only have unlimited possibility if all possibilities can/do exist. That’s the essence of that quote. “Originating from the God/absolute” is simply to state that we are an accumulation of many many choices we have made, out of the infinite options we have. There is no separation between us and the absolute, unless you choose there to be.
The absolute would not see all possibilities, as though as subjective tangents of reality. The absolute already knows the beginning and end of your life, and every component that exists within you throughout all of time and space.
I can agree there is no separation from us and it in that senses, but my statement was merely reflecting that, despite this deterministic view of our world, we still have the ability to see each determined quality of our evolved lives in varying and unique ways.