Marks? do they reflect the real level of the students?

 Hitomi (@kidvisions) 10 years, 7 months ago

Hey! so, i just got my results and i was petrified! i keep getting bad marks in literature even though i love it and i always read books and study it hard. i thinks its because i analyze the passages frm my own perspective. i dnt get it! do you think the marks reflect the true level of the student?

March 23, 2011 at 2:13 pm
Syn.Ther. (46) (@luna) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

Trust me if my marks would have any relation to the enjoyment and fulfillment I have in my life I would most definitely be suicidal. It is who you are , not what somebody wants you to become which is your currency in life.

Most things you learn in school are outdated anyways by the time you finish…
Education itself however is important as it is the vehicle of knowledge and therefor the enabler of understanding.

The methods of education…. you are here… lots to learn.

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Hitomi (67) (@kidvisions) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

education kind of determines who you will become, the job you will have depends on it. plus, it is really frustrating to be judged by haugty incompetent people at what you are good at the most…

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Syn.Ther. (46) (@luna) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

Education may help you to understand who you are….

Education goes beyond convectional schooling….

I learn every day

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Hitomi (67) (@kidvisions) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

True… but i am talking about this particular kind of education.

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Syn.Ther. (46) (@luna) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

You mean literature… well that can never be an exact science so of course personal interpretation and reflection can never be considered a bad thing.

It is true in old school rigidness new insights and out of the box ideas can be hazardous for grade averages, but don’t let that stop you from enjoying literature, for maybe it is them who do not understand it….

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Hitomi (67) (@kidvisions) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

I liked what you said: for maybe its them who do not understand… Totally agree with that!!! But then why should I be the victim of their blindness??

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Ashleigh (2) (@nlogax) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

You shouldn’t. Everyone needs to reform their system of education. Here’s a video I ironically just saw in my Sociology class today that is relevant to this conversation. I liked it.

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Syn.Ther. (46) (@luna) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

@ash Brilliant

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Alex Eastman (71) (@alex) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

I believe that marks, (I call them grades, when I saw that I was confused, lol) are more of a reflection on a students laziness or hard-work rather than their intellect in MOST cases. In yours, I believe it is the opposite. I think you are thinking too hard on the subject. You are thinking too far “out of the box” for the teacher and the lesson. :)

I’m often considered a “smart kid” by so many people. :P I’m usually done first in class and get fairly good grades without trying super-hard. But I have been trained by my parents to be good at school… Its freaking ridiculous how many hours they spent just making me go over my spelling words in grade school! hahaha. I can spell just about anything I have seen o_o But I don’t consider myself “smart”, I just think in a different way :b. As with anyone. We are all smart in one way or another. :)

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Leon Milner (3) (@leon) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

Yeah, grades are a lot of politics too, at least in high school lol. If you can write what your teacher wants then you’ll often get better marks than if you right what you would like. Getting to know the teacher helps a lot too.
That’s why literature is so hard, but also so interesting!
But no, I don’t think grades have much to do with it. I’ve gotten very good marks in the past without feeling like I did that good of work, or was very true to myself.
Like Alex said, it has more to do with how much time a person puts into school than how intelligent they are.

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Anonymous (0) (@) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

@alex I totally agree. I just graduated last year from a high school that was named “best in the state” and sent 4 kids to Harvard alone. Subsequently to get in the top 10% of the class meant getting near all A’s in honors and AP level classes.

As someone who has been told all his life “how smart they are” and “If you would only apply yourself you would be getting straight A’s” I have had the unique opportunity to view my school from a pseudo-outside perspective. I never totally bought into the system and therefore have been able to make some observations about modern high school.

The first is that success in high school (as defined by high grades or marks) is almost solely based on the amount of work put in. You can be the most intelligent person in your school, but intelligence alone does nothing. This is because so much of what makes up grades are tedious and small assignments not knowledge of the subject material. I never handed in homework, but still did great on test. However the effort I didn’t put into my assignments reflected in my grades. I have seen some of the cleverest and most intelligent kids in my school get significantly lower grades than hard working students for the very same reason. The student who invests 5 hours of hard work will usually (not always) do better than the intelligent student who lets their assumed intelligence warp into laziness.

The second is that no student should ever care too much what their grades are. Grades originally had the purpose of letting the student know their progress. Getting a C wasn’t the end of the world, it was just an indication of where they were in mastering the subject so as to help them master it. Unfortunately grades have become this distorted presence in our society’s educational systems that hold much more weight than they should. Students have been indoctrinated to believe that grades are the path to happiness and success. Get good grades and you can get into a good colleges. Get into a good college and you can get a good job. Get a good job and you will make money. Make money and you will be happy. Due to this belief students don’t work to learn they work for grades. This mindset leaves students with a lot of stress and little to show for it. I have found that if I look at school as an opportunity to learn and better myself the grades follow. Essays go from hated adversaries that I leave to the last minute to opportunities to formulate and think through beliefs as well as practice in arguing.

Lastly, grades are human. What I mean by that is that they are not perfect and static, but are volatile to change. Remember, the men and woman who grade (teachers) are humans too. The may be older and in a position of power, but they are still humans. Consequentially there are a lot of factors that go into a grade. It sucks, but you could hand in the same paper to the same teacher on separate days and get different grades. Who knows what could affect the teacher’s ability to grade. Maybe they’ve been up all night grading papers and yours is the last. Maybe they just had a crappy day at school where none of their students listened. Maybe they just don’t see something the way you do. In any case, grades are not CAT scans of one’s worth as a student, but an educated guess at a student’s progress made by a human.

Phew! Sorry if I ranted a little bit XD. It was very cathartic and I was able to get a lot off my chest. Hope it helped.

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Phil (8) (@phil) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

Also…generall interest in the subject…you may not be doing something that you’d really like to be doing, for whatever reason, so if you’r like me…you wont give a [email protected]#k. Dosn’t mean you’r stupid. Just means you dont know what you actually want to do, or for whatever reason, cant be doing it.

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Hitomi (67) (@kidvisions) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

@alex: Yeah, true it is about how much hard work you put, but I think that in literature it is not only about that… Besides, I have studied hard for that exam, even if it was a lit exam and I do not believe in studying for lit exams… And as far as intelligence is concerned, yeah I think there are a lot of types of intelligence not just one.
@leon: I really hate that teachers have to be that tyrannical! There is no democracy at school! They would give you a zero if you disagree with them, there is no sense of objectivity! really! There are a few tolerant teachers who encourage creativity, but again what I wanted to talk about is simply, how grades/marks do not reflect the level of the student and that’s why , at least in my country, we find incompetent people who hate their jobs everywhere!
@harrison: Thanks a lot! You have said it all I guess! :) I still have a few things to say though. I used to hate school when I was in high school, but during my graduation year I started liking it. I have never really studied before that year, but got fairly good marks. My friends would spend hours working hard and yet even if they got better grades there wasn’t too much difference between us. I considered that as a triumph!
During the last four years, that is starting from my graduation year, I started working hard, which actually paid off the first and the third year. As for the rest, I didn’t feel like my work was worth it. I think it is unfair that one teachers gets to toy with your future and decide which grades you deserve, after all they are humans as you said.
Anyway, what I have noticed is that the problem with me is always a question of sticking to the course, not because I didn’t not prepare it well, but simply because I usually disagree with its content. Most of the teachers of lit I had were “superficial” in their analysis except for four of them. I have never felt that they grasped the essence of a poem of a novel or a play. I also felt, when I got bad marks in literature that I was a total failure, after all I wanted to become a lit teacher, and getting bad marks even if I prepared for the course, but didn’t write what was in it and rather expressed my own opinions made me feel terrible especially that there were “stupid” students who didn’t GET anything from literature got much better than me! It is simply unfair and stupid! It happened to me in philosophy exams as well and it is even more crazy to see stupid students who actually hate philosophy and do not get a single thing from it get better grades than you!
I think that the whole educational system is wrong! Exams should be designed in that they show the true value of a student especially lit, philosophy and subjects of that kind! You must be talented enough to teach those! Though I don’t think they should be taught in the first place!
PS: it is not a question of laziness! I know a lot of people who would study on their own, things that have nothing to do with what they are studying in class, who would read hundreds of books, and even learn new and difficult languages but wouldn’t look at their course simply because they think it’s a waste of time. I think it has to do with the artist in you! You can’t PRETEND …
@phil: yeah! Sometimes you choose to do something that you really like but then it turns out to be terrible!

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rosemarie (0) (@roesplace) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

NO!!!! I have lots of life experience and can tell you the worst day of my life (well, maybe the worst academic day) was getting a 68 on an abnormal psych test when I was in my early 40’s. The good news was that my professor wrote “please see me” (knees knocking I spoke to her after class). She then identified a life long problem with “test anxiety” that caused me to doubt myself and delayed my progress in school and from following my dream (i.e. nursing). I did go on to fulfilling careers but never the one that I yearned for. SO, the moral to the story is that grades don’t define YOU. Believe in yourself and find a way of getting around those little glitches. In L,L&L, Rosie

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Hitomi (67) (@kidvisions) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

@rosemarie: that must have been really frustrating and difficult! I think I have the opposite thing: I never ever ever freak out or stress out before,during or after an exam, sometimes I just feel a bit scared but it is never too serious and never lasts long!

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rosemarie (0) (@roesplace) 10 years, 7 months ago ago

It certainly was frustrating and debilitating. I disliked school because there was always a test in one class or another. Then in college I enjoyed learning again since their were more options and less tests. Options such as open book tests or reports in lieu of tests (not offered often enough though) should be offered more in various grade levels.

I can’t even imagine not being terrified. I’m glad to talk to someone who had the opposite issue. Good for you!!!

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Anonymous (2,654) (@) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

bump. Just to let you know, I loved this thread because of the first posts. :) It would be cool if everyone actually shared opinion about the marks/grades and how they affect people.

I was not much into school in the first place. Mostly listening to music and making fun of everything.(As soon as I learn something, new knowledge, I start to make fun of it, it is an illness of mine that I like) Now I am heading to a university, and I am still having doubts about it, because of the scoring and shit. As long as grades go, sometimes I was brilliant. Sometimes average. Sometimes just didn’t care and slept while teachers were doing whatever they want with my grades. Ah…

And now that I got my results from the test I went a week ago, I see that I didn’t do good at it, but at least I have some chance. Apparently, I don’t know some rules that are required. And it frustrates on some level to think that I won’t actually be accepted. It’s really not about studying or being lazy. I was studying for 2 months while I completely forbid myself to play games, make music, I was basically under some kind of pressure.

Now I realize that I was getting too serious about it and the only thing I forbid myself was being myself, because of my future as a fucked up student. (yeah, yeah) So I did bad on this test and I don’t feel bad about it, I feel bad about the criterion that’s deeply expected from the normal standards for someone to feel validated. It’s really annoying. I know I am a little bit too crazy at times, but seriously… what is going on basically with the whole educational system?

There are people who really cannot feel pride about anything except their grades! I guess it’s too naive for me to think that I have faith in my constant improvising mind? It’s always been stupid. And the people who graduate aren’t so good at their jobs, because if they were, they would really help students to learn easier. Yeah, yeah, it’s the student’s responsibility to learn. Actually, motivation doesn’t come from too fucking serious and worried selfish idiots all around you, so I think you get my point. :)

I think this is one of those times when I am actually being serious about myself on HE, so sorry about this. Anyway, I just needed to get it off my chest.

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Fyrirrek (17) (@fyrirrek) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

“Syn.there “Education may help you to understand who you are….

Education goes beyond convectional schooling….

I learn every day” <—-Awesome. This I agree with here. I just want to add that yes depending what you do the more you should strive for the marks. Like becoming a doctor. You kind of have to know your stuff because of communicating with the other doctors and being on the same page.
Sadly yes the school systems in Asia or even Australia. "Mark" you the rest of your life depending on how you do. You only get one shot in some countries. The poor kids don't even have a ready perspective on how things affect there future and if they do there's so much pressure involved.

I understand where coming from outside the box is. It's really exciting you want to travel all through this new topic you've been introduced to. It's hard to be disciplined and open to your teacher sometimes when you disagree but they're there to help….or they are there for money lol. But yes we must remember all the learning is up to us. In school we don't want to be in a "battle" with our teacher. They are humans too yes and even though it's against the "rules" they could form a dislike for you. If you seem to be just stirring things up. Or "TOO" interested. It sounds weird but I suffer from being really over zealous about things sometimes that it can scare people.

In arts and literature. It's more open ended. But if we are being tested on material then there's hope that its to fuel our learning and understanding of the subject. I think win or fail if you loved doing it, keep on doing it. That's the hardest part. Our perspective in something new is radically different stage of growth. We need more exposure to new topics to master them. When just introduced to them we all pick up things at a different pace. The real danger is to not label ourselves failure or winner, just keep your self directed interest and life will surprise you with your tenacity. I think the point is we have to keep it in perspective to our goals for what we want in the future. We will always have disagreement. But that shouldn't stop us from being interested. When we're interested in something it would test us even if the teacher and the marks were not there right?

Marks mean something but it's up to you to make that meaning. And remember there were innovators of their time even before such school systems existed. Understand the system but also look at your fundamental core self.

In the end if your country or system screws you. Then hey baby…it's a wide world. (so the song goes hehe)

@Sasho What If we graded potheads on who rolled the best? There's a topic with a whole other school of experts. lol

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Tobias Valdemar Broe Knudsen (92) (@2bias) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

Off the top of my head? No definitely not.
Marks are just a way of trying to guesstimate how much of the task you got.
your abillities will in most cases exceed those required for the specific task, however the point is that even though your potential is far greater, it’s about what you can do in practical terms, not what you hypothetically could do. Marks don’t tell you how smart you are, they just tell you how much you missed, or hit the target so to speak. It all comes down to being specific about criticism, it’s no good if you’re simply told that it was no good, ask what you should change, or focus on, that’s what leads to progress, accepting that your not always gonna get it right and then just trying to change what you did wrong. :)

Maybe I just repeated something that has already been said in this thread, i didn’t read it so i don’t know, but I really need to get back to minecraft so… ;:P

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Tobias Valdemar Broe Knudsen (92) (@2bias) 9 years, 6 months ago ago

after reading this I realized that the whole thread just derailed – spiderman time? 8]

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