Nihilism v2

 Marvie (@marvie) 7 years, 10 months ago

If you would all be kind folks, I would like to propose an argument for nihilism. Now I am posting this because, at least where I have been searching, people seem to think that Nihilism (I suppose Existentialism as well, since it has a Nihilism foundation) is false with the presence of God.

Just to lay down some definitions:
If something is extrinsically valued, then it is valuable because an external source values it.
If something is intrinsically valued, then it is valuable in and of itself.

1)Everything can only give extrinsic value.
This is because from the view of anything, everything else is an external source. Due to the fact that everything is an external source, all value that everything gives is external. Because all value everything gives is external, all value that everything gives is extrinsic.
With religion, this also means that all value God gives is extrinsic. An example of this is God giving human life value. When God gives humans value, the humans are being given a value from an external source. By definition, this is extrinsic value.
2)Nothing can give intrinsic value.
This is because of step 1. Because everything can ONLY give extrinsic value, then it cannot give intrinsic value.
3)In order for something to have value, it must be given value.
4)Intrinsic value did not originally exist.
If God created the universe (meaning that he was the first thing to exist): Any value that God could give is extrinsic, so no intrinsic value could have originally exist,
If the universe came from nothing (meaning nothing was the first thing to exist):
This can be divided into two sub categories:
If “nothing” is a conscience being (not sure if conscience is the right word, but generally a being that is able to give something value) then whatever value it gives is external and is thus extrinsic (because of steps 1-3)
If nothing is not a conscience being and is simply nothing- the absence of anything- then it would not be able to give anything value, meaning that it would be unable to give anything intrinsic and extrinsic value (because of steps 1-3)

If all of these premises are correct, then the claim that intrinsic value does not and cannot exist is true, even with the presence of God.
I am eager to discuss this so please comment on any flaws with the argument. Thank you

December 22, 2013 at 8:06 pm
Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

It would depend on God being something distinct and separate from ourselves. But if a person can give themselves value, isn’t that intrinsic?

Marvie (9) (@marvie) 7 years, 9 months ago ago

With extrinsic value it can be viewed as: x giving value to y, X and Y being anything. For example, x=humans and y=money. Money is the object being given value, and Humans are the things giving value. So, humans are the things giving external value to money. X is giving EXTERNAL value to y, making it so that y has extrinsic value.
So, then it would also work that way with the self.
If I (x) give value to myself (y) then that whatever value I give is an external value. Because it is an external value, it is extrinsic value.
So, to answer your question, no.
I had a much better explanation for my answer a few hours ago but it seems that I gave forgot it for now. If I remember and it is noticeably different I’ll re-post or edit.

Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 7 years, 9 months ago ago

I think Nihilism is more about connotation; for something to exist at all it must have a natural value above zero, but regardless of its nature or function it cannot objectively be classified as good or bad, positive or negative, because that would be anthropomorphically assigning a bias value to it, in a way it effects/affects humans.

Marvie (9) (@marvie) 7 years, 9 months ago ago

I see what you mean, but for clarity allow me to ask a few questions. First, how does existence equate to having value? In addition, are you saying that in order for something to exist it must have extrinsic value or intrinsic value?

Anonymous (175) (@) 7 years, 9 months ago ago

Only dopes endorse “morals”…

Anonymous (175) (@) 7 years, 9 months ago ago

Though to be fair, nihilism does irk me, since to me it reinforces sociopathy. Morals may not exist, but I don’t tolerate abuse.

Bono (18) (@bono95zg) 7 years, 9 months ago ago

if you abuse people you r not nihilist then.

Anonymous (175) (@) 7 years, 9 months ago ago

says who? if people get abused, it’s their own issue, and people hold a right to do so as anything goes.

Bono (18) (@bono95zg) 7 years, 9 months ago ago

if you abuse people you still have some part of your brain evaluating that situation (giving it value) causing it to exist. if you have it you are not nihilist.

Anonymous (328) (@) 7 years, 9 months ago ago

“Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.”
I see Nihilism as a philosophy of anti-philosophy. If you keep tinkering with it, it loses its’ purpose. Because really it is NOTHING.

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