On Feminism and the Like

 TJ (@Justus) 7 years, 10 months ago

As I was taking a state test today, there were two stories that irked me a bit. The first was about a woman who owned a salon and became a leading army pilot during WWII who created a task force of women to do non-combative aviation tasks. She did this in a time when women didn’t do that sort of thing and yadah yadah yadah. Admirable, but very focused on the fact that she was a woman doing all of this. The other was about how gender-specific clothes weren’t a thing and then they were and then they weren’t again because women wanted to rebel rebel against the fact that they were in the first place, and it was kind of ridiculous.

Anyway, there have been a few things bugging me since I read those two stories, the latter of them being the one really angering me. I understand that women used to be oppressed, as well as a large number of minorities, but this is the 21st century. People pretty much everywhere accept the fact that women, people of different ethnic origins, and now people with different sexual orientations can get any job they desire. THERE IS NO NEED TO SHARE THIS TO THE WORLD. An individual is not based on what they are anymore, but how they perform, think, etc.

We get that you’re a woman. We get that you can be a surgeon, or a race car driver, or in the army, or whatever. We get that you’re black and successful. It’s admirable that you didn’t have anything growing up and that now you’re well-off. Have a slice of humble pie! Like, honestly. Equality is a thing now. People know and understand this, well, other than the racist, homophobic, “traditional” people. But bigots will be bigots no matter how much you tell them you’re equal.

One thing that really bugs me is when girls are like, “I’m weak and can’t do [insert laborious task here] Will you do it for me?” and then turn around saying they’re just as capable as anyone to do anything. If you tell me you’re weak, I’ll treat you like that. If you tell me you’re capable, I’ll expect you to do whatever to get what you desire. This is true for whoever plays the, “I’m ______ so I can’t _______” Or, “That’s offensive because my ancient ancestors faced that struggle,” cards.

Times have changed. If you want to be treated equally, act as an equal, and treat everyone equally. Stop encouraging prejudice.

December 6, 2013 at 3:06 pm
Lord Voldemort (1) (@lordvoldemort) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

ThAt SeEms SuPer CooL. I WiSh ThAt WaS ME.

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@justus,
“People pretty much everywhere accept the fact that women, people of different ethnic origins, and now people with different sexual orientations can get any job they desire.”

“We get that you’re a woman. We get that you can be a surgeon, or a race car driver, or in the army, or whatever.”

I want you to know that these two statements scream non-21st century.

Women are still oppressed and abused. It just isn’t blatant. The statistics about women’s inequality is very alarming, especially with domestic violence and rape.

Women are not equal, and there are a myriad of reasons why
1. They simply aren’t male. We have differences. That is that.
2. People like you who want women to shut up about their equality and stop making them speak out against it.
3. People you describe – the women who prolong inequality and create dissonance in their equality by self-perpetualizing their own inequality “Will you get that for me?”
4. Media and entertainment always portray women the same; hot, sexy, and ready for the taking – to be won over by the glorious man.
5. The combination of all of these things creates a societal norm that women aren’t equal.

I don’t like the aim of this post very much.

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@justus, It’s not really over yet, one thing white people have gotten out of the last 500 years, or so, of world domination is the lion share of wealth, and with that wealth comes the power to perpetuate their dominance. Yes, race, sex, sexuality, etc, is a generally accepted culture, but that is because prejudice of that kind no longer needs to be kept around, the people who needed a head start have it in spades, this aint a Tortoise and the Hare situation, the Rabbit aint gunna go to sleep for a few hours because he feels sufficiently confident.

Wealth begets wealth and it is going to do its best to keep it that way.

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Kyle (131) (@kyle) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist,

2. Was pretty rude. I think you have a tendency of getting way too over heated on here. Be nicer.

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TJ (57) (@Justus) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist Like I said, bigots will be bigots. They will die and be replaced by more people who accept it. Eventually, when the entire society is enlightened, this will cease to be an issue. The point I was making was that these things need to stop being pointed out so blatantly, because it’s causing the society to see this as still an issue that affects us. It’s fading, and it will work out without constant reiteration.

This post is also aimed at the countries with these freedoms for their people. It should be addressed in restrictive countries because it still is an issue. Don’t mistake me for saying that women should just shut up and be women. But in the countries where it isn’t an issue to society as a whole, it just needs to be toned down. The bigots shall cease along with their hatred. No point in reminding everyone that it existed at one time. It doesn’t anymore; move on.

@trek79 This is also true. I was watching something, can’t quite remember what it was, but I liked something that was said in it. It was along the lines of, “There’s no longer an American, or a Japanese, or a German, or a Russian. There’s only the rich and the poor.”

@kyle <3

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@justus, “But in the countries where it isn’t an issue to society as a whole”

Are you a woman? Christ man.

1. Domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women between the ages of 15 and 44 in the United States, more than car accidents, muggings, and rapes combined.

2. Three to four million women in the United States are beaten in their homes each year by their husbands, ex-husbands, or male lovers.

3. One in every four women will experience domestic violence in her lifetime.

4. 85% of domestic violence victims are women.

5. Police report that between 40% and 60% of the calls they receive, especially on the night shift, are domestic violence disputes.

6. The average prison sentence of men who kill their women partners is 2 to 6 years. Women who kill their partners are, on average, sentenced to 15 years.

7. Reports show that violence against women increases during pregnancy.

“Because despite the indisputable gains over the years, women are still being raped, trafficked, violated and discriminated against — not just in the rest of the world, but here in the United States. And though feminists continue to fight gender injustices, most people seem to think that outside of a few lingering battles, the work of the women’s movement is done.”

8. women work outside the home, but they make about 76 cents to a man’s dollar and make up the majority of Americans living in poverty.

9. the percentage of managers who are women has risen from 35% to only 38% of the last twenty years.

10. In 2010, women made up 31.5% of all lawyers but were only 19.5% of partners in U.S. law firms according to Catalyst. Additionally, 11% of the largest law firms in the U.S. had no women on their governing committees.

11. Women in the United States are still being fired for being pregnant and getting demoted when they return from maternity leave.

Sorry for being heated but to think they are equal is grossly incorrect.

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@justus, In a way you have a point, as J says in Men In Black “Don’t start nuthin, wont be nuthin” once people are capable of digesting that wisdom as something more than just a catchy one-liner from pop-culture, we may be onto something, until then; J is still seen as a black person, and all the connotations that go with it.

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Kyle (131) (@kyle) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, You’re right because nothing is on an equal playing field. Doesn’t matter what you are. The only way we could be equal is if we start paying equal attention too most of these problems, or look at them from a macro level.

1,2,3,4,5, 7 Violence is the problem.
8,9,10 Wage/Job distribution problem. (big problem with minorities as well.)
4,5 (from first argument) Media/Marketing/Advertising is the problem.

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TJ (57) (@Justus) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist Equal as in having the ability to do whatever they want, not just being confined to a housewife who cooks and cleans and does nothing more. The issues against women for being women are just that, issues. Big ones, and they should be noted, fought for, announced, etc. The fact that pay inequality due to gender/ethnicity is ridiculous. The plethora of violence against women isn’t because women can do as they please, it’s because of the man’s ego and need for power. And so on.

@trek79 Sadly, thats the truth.

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@kyle, For sure, everyone seems to be on their own personal mission, they have singled out a specific enemy, of course there will be others along the way, but they have tunnel vision, not the slightest awareness that the problem in the world is not the world, it’s world view.

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@kyle, Oh so none of it is sexism. Noted.

Thanks for your input.

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Kyle (131) (@kyle) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@trek79, @ijesuschrist, Exactly, I like to call it a narrowed scope of empathy.

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, Literal LOL.

First of all, women opressed? Not at all outside the third world, they’re rather privileged.
Just look at how you pulled the “rape and domestic abuse” card. Those are not really examples that speak in your favour, rather against it.

Because, let’s look at what those things really are, shall we?
When a woman tries to force sex/romance on a man, it’s “cute, romantic, empowering, she has needs, you go girl woo!” but when a man does such things to a woman it’s rape.
When a woman hits a man, it’s “just a reaction, frustration, she’s pissed”, but when a man hits a woman it’s a crime, and not just ordinary battery but “woman abuse.”

Some women sometimes get smacked around by their husband/boyfriend (who they choose to stay with,) but a large percentage of men get properly beaten by other men frequently. And if you count every time these same guys get an unprovoked slap from a woman/girl, the evidence of who are actually privileged should be undeniable EVEN TO YOU.

When statistics show that women are getting hurt it’s “very alarming” like you said, but when statistics show that men are getting hurt nobody gives a shit.
Special care and attention is not equality, it’s the direct opposite.

Now for that little list…

1. That’s not a matter of inequality.

2. Whining and patting backs instead of taking action is exactly why some people have less than others. You’ll never hear an actual strong, self-made woman preach feminism or anything like that. Only the “gimme gimme” bitches want feminism.

3. Oh, you mean EVERYONE.

4. What media are you talking about? That’s not what it looks like today. Nearly every damn show is boosting feminists these days. Hollywood movies being mostly an exception though, but if that’s your idea of media you’re gazing through the smallest navel on Earth.
By the way, those movies and romantic drivel shows portray men in an equally ridiculous, dehumanizing manner. It’s called fiction, deal with it.

5. Not really. Political correctness is the social norm of this day and age. Go out and meet some actual people and you’ll see the actual situation.
Women used to be put on a pedestal, now they’re put on a pedestal upon another pedestal. And they’re demanding yet another, and calling it equality.

There’s a lot of women who are out there actually earning their way through life, without whining like beggars or trying to manipulate the political system to get privileges. Hard working, STRONG, SANE women. And of course there’s all the great dedicated mothers and such.

But you’ll never see any of those praised on the media, because they’re a threat to feminism, and simultaneously a threat to the conservatives.
They deserve glory, but they don’t get it.

THOSE women deserve more. The rest don’t.

The only ones being oppressed in this society are the individuals.

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Mike (1) (@lighthouse) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, you’ve got some tunnel vision going on.

Besides what @manimal mentioned, there are some other mechanics worth talking about. The fact of the matter is, both men and women currently suffer under our current society. However, it’s not men who can be held solely responsible for this… in fact, much of the blame lies on women, as their own oppressors.

Male forms of abuse are incredibly easy to spot (generally). A man who uses physical violence will leave marks. Marks are physical evidence of a crime that was obviously committed.

Now, too often we see this, and we think this is the ONLY type of abuse. That physical violence is the only type of domestic abuse there is. Ironically, in our attempts at “equality”, we’ve actually categorized women as weak, submissive and helpless by default.

Women are not weak, submissive and helpless.

Women have their own tools of abuse which can be much, MUCH more devastating than a physical blow will ever be (shame, for example). It’s very important to realize this, because it changes the way we look at domestic abuse.

To say that domestic abuse can only consist of physical violence is to ignore the enormous swaths of damage being done by psychological abuse.

Now, it might sound like I’m saying a woman who gets physically abused may have “had it coming”. I’m not, and here’s why.

Physical violence is never acceptable. Never. It is the weakest form of attack, and can only be executed from a position of total psychological impotence. All men who physically abuse women deserve all the punishments defined by our current judicial system.

But why do men use violence? I have one theory: sex.

Men and women grow up in very, very different worlds. Women learn the romantic arts very early on, and very thoroughly. Additionally, they learn romance AS IT ACTUALLY WORKS. This is not like men, who are fed fantasy tales their entire lives.

Men learn how to do everything BUT what actually attracts women. Men have been simultaneously conditioned to want sex at every turn (“you can look but you can’t touch” sex is EVERYWHERE), and also conditioned to consistently take actions that reduce his attractiveness to women.

I’m sure you understand the situation this creates. It is very, very difficult for men to get laid. The VAST majority of men sleep with under 7 women throughout their entire life. And they sleep with these women, in most cases, after “stumbling” onto them, and then holding onto them for years, usually permanently attaching themselves in one way or another as quickly as possible.

Sex is a vital need for both men and women. But men are constantly in a situation of either not having sex, or having to “earn” sex from a women who “allows” him to take her (of course, while getting something in return).

With all this talk of “rape culture”, it’s easy to picture men as uber-masculine, testosterone fueled monsters. With some more irony, the reality is the exact opposite.

Masculine men do not rape women. Masculine men don’t NEED to. Masculine men get all the sex they want, and it is almost THROWN at them.

Feminized, weak men are the rapists. These are the men who have reached psychological “rock bottom”. Where violence is the only tool possible to achieve a desired end result.

So why are men feminized? Women.

It’s easy to say “men control the world”. That’s what feminists have been saying for years, and it certainly looks to be true.

But who are we? Humans. Humans begin as babies, which then mature into adults. And generally, the older the human is, the less they change their ways. In other words, the bulk of an individual humans become who they are not in adulthood, but in childhood.

Who controls childhood? Women.

Women raise children almost exclusively. Yes, in healthy households, men also play a crucial role. But in our society, women raise children. Women are teachers. Women are in day cares. Any man who wants to play an active role in these institutions is looked on like a sexual predator.

The more feminized men, the more domestic violence. The more domestic violence, the more single moms raise their children to be MORE feminine, in hopes that it will tame the “masculinity” which caused domestic abuse. Ironically, causing MORE domestic abuse.

Women represent the bulk of buyers. In this manner, the media is naturally shaped towards women’s wants and needs. Women are the perpetrators of sexual guilt. If a man calls a woman a slut, she gets over it. If a woman calls another woman a slut, she’s marking her as a traitor to her race. Women raise our children.

Behold the great remaining kingdom of men: the realm of physical violence.

Now for any “glass ceiling” argument…

Did you know that the majority of women prefer a male boss?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/165791/americans-prefer-male-boss.aspx

This is for many different reasons, but the biggest one… women don’t work well with other women.

This statistic is very telling, because it proves that once again, “inequality” isn’t driven by men… like everything else, it’s a co-creation.

Women, on average, earn less than men, because women, on average, work less than men. Women who work just as hard as men earn just as much as men. Less women do so, so the statistics are skewed.

Allowing a woman to keep her job for several months during maternity leave hurts a company. In fact, I’m sure this was a main reason why women didn’t work originally (once again, a co-creation, not “male superiority).

A man does not require maternity leave. Therefore, a man is of more value to a company than a woman who will require several months leave, and then will have to catch up once she gets back.

It’s simply a biological difference. The world of business is a world of efficiency, not sexism.

In conclusion, I won’t say that these problems are caused by women, because they aren’t. However, they are caused by society, which is by and large controlled by women.

After all, if men ruled the world… don’t you think we’d be getting laid more?

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@manimal,

@lighthouse,

Fuck it. If you guys think women have equality, let it be that way. I’m not going to argue with you. Its easy to say women have it good being a white male.

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Toon Alfrink (1) (@ToonAlfrink) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@lighthouse,

Nice clarification. Love your punchline.

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Yael Alonso (59) (@YaelAlonso) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@lighthouse, The premises were all true and then got skewed to you viewpoint rather quickly. And it’s obvious you began with a bias toward women as the premise of your entire argument.

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, Oooo, once someone brought some actual arguments to the table… you can’t retort and you just drop out.

And of course the compulsory “Fine! keep believing that” canned phrase. Just like people do every time they have to face logic and reason head on.

@lighthouse,

VIOLENCE:

Mental violence is not stronger than physical violence. A strong mind is immune to all trash-talk and shaming and guilt-tripping and angry namecalling. But no body is immune to punches, kicks, bites or stabs.

Mental abuse must be invited for it to have any effect. That’s a choice. Anyone who is too irresponsible to make that choice should not be considered mature or grown up.

Women always get away with childish behaviour, “because it’s just feminine behaviour” (my ass) and this makes them weak and stupid.
Men don’t get away with that stuff, so we have to use muscles and smarts a lot more, and this makes us stronger and smarter.
The rare woman who doesn’t get away with that shit doesn’t grow up to be weak and stupid, and the increasing number of boys who get coddled turn out just as weak and dumb as the ditzy girls.

So in a way, this culture makes women weaker. But they ask for it, and if someone tries to take it away they get really, really mad.
Be careful what you ask for, is a lesson people -especially the female ones- really need to learn.

Besides, physical violence does have its time and place. It is sometimes the smartest choice, more often than you’d think. But beating up someone significantly weaker is never acceptable. Hiding behind weakness is never acceptable either.

SEX:

Girls aren’t taught how romance actually works, or how to maneuver it. They’re fed a bunch of fairytale nonsense, and taught that guys only exist to get girls’ feelings going and give stuff to girls, and that a man should fight a million beasts around the world for just a slight chance of getting the affection of a girl that’s always just been a nuisance to him and wouldn’t contribute to his life one bit.
Girls are taught to be spoiled.
Girls are taught that they’re precious, and that their feelings are the most important thing in the world, and that men want a woman’s love more than anything else in the world and would do anything to get it.

Simply put, BULLSHIT.
But it sells, because it caters to the spoiled, gimme-gimme instant gratification desire that every child (and immature adult) has.

And when the girls get a bit older, they’re taught how to lie and deceive and manipulate to get superficial love and gifts/favours from guys.
Still heavy emphasis on the “you are a prize” aspect.
And soon, in most girls this desire for validation as a prize overshadows the desire to love and give and realize what she wants, so she puts all emphasis on trying to impress guys. Mostly by lying.

Boys aren’t taught much at all in this area of life until they’re a bit older. Except the heroic movies/games, where the same values that the girls are taught are preached to the boys.
When they get older, they’re just told that being a virgin means being a loser and getting laid a lot means being cool. And so on.

And througout all of this, they’re taught to suck up to girls. To try to impress girls, be nice to girls, give them things, help them and never expect anything of them.
They focus on trying to impress girls. Mostly by lying.

People act like sex is woman’s gift to man… when women’s potential for sexual pleasure is more than ten times bigger than men’s, when women’s emotional response is much higher than men’s, when it doesn’t drain women like it drains men.

Just look at the whole marriage thing. A man gains absolutely nothing from marriage, a woman gains a whole damn lot, yet the man is expected to pay for it. And if the woman wants to end it, he has to give her even more stuff. And she will take his kids away.
A girl that was once beautiful, happy, nice and caring quickly turns into a nasty, passive aggressive lowlife once a ring is on her finger. The love dies, and she blames him for it and files a divorce. Or she cheats on him and gets caught, then files a divorce. That’s usually how it goes.

A woman describes what an attractive man is, then rejects anyone who resembles her description, and goes for the guys who are the opposite. Until she finds a guy who fits her new, revised ideal and she latches on to him. A year or so later, she finds herself lacking passion and attraction, she’ll either break it off or start cheating or cave in and just settle for this guy she doesn’t really like.
But throughout the whole thing, she’s fully convinced those are the traits she likes… while her body and soul keep telling her the opposite.

Oh yeah, those “women” sure understand their romance… in what world, bro?
Don’t get me wrong though, guys are a lot worse.

Domesticated people are stupid, they will always suffer and make each other suffer. That’s the simple truth. Domesticated people suck.

WORK:

It’s interesting that you mentioned the boss thing.
I saw statistics the other way that claimed something very interesting, that the progress of modern feminism and the decrease of women’s over-all happiness were parallel and very closely mirrored each other. I’ll see if I can find the article.

As for the actual work carried out.
I have yet to hear of women getting stuck in a caved-in mine, I have yet to hear about women dying in workplace accidents, I have yet to hear of women losing limbs or eyes at work, I have yet to hear of women taking major risks at work on a daily basis, etc…
And I have yet to hear of a man getting a fancy job just to fill out a gender quota.

Construction workers… a lot of them spend all day RUNNING up and down several flights of stairs with heavy materials, a lot of which is covered in mold and sewage and other nasty stuff. In a dangerously loud environment, with limited air supply due to dust and breathing masks that still won’t protect them sufficiently. 8 hours a day, 5 or more days a week.
Then they come home to a bitchy wife or girlfriend, and they do all the heavy chores at home and probably help with a bunch of other stuff. And they pay all the bills, with their hard earned money from their grossly underpayed construction jobs.

And you rarely hear them whine.

And you’ll definitely never see a woman even TRYING to do what those guys do.

And a man can’t just fall back on being a housewife or stripper like a woman can, there is no safety net for men, but plenty for women.
There is no shortcut for men, but plenty for women.
There is no free ticket into education or employment for men, but plenty for women.

Yet women act like they have such a hard time.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@justus,

| People pretty much everywhere accept the fact that women, people of different ethnic origins, and now people with different sexual orientations can get any job they desire |

^this is the only comment that made me pause, how do you know this to be true? when you say everywhere, are you bringing in the rest of the world as well? i ask because it seems most, [most] of the rest of the world still treats woman as a lower class.

or did you mean everywhere in the US? to this i ask, how do you know this to be true, are you a woman who has tried to get a job or did not get a job bc the manager has an opinion on woman?

also, just bc they are aware of this equality in the cases where that is pertinent, this does not mean they will act on it. there are a lot of things we ‘know’ we should not do yet do anyways,

and judging other people is one of the easiest. so i ask, what proof do you have of the statement? is that a researched perspective or just your opinion as a male?

outside of that comment though, i agree with the point you are making, there definitely is a hypocrisy in how there is a demand to be treated equally and hiding behind ‘being a woman’, and if woman wants to be treated equally, there will have to be action, not just words, on their part for it to become [real], and, i think this was kinda your point, if they did make it [real] through actions, males would treat them better,

and it is bc there is still this contrast between how woman were (mentally) and how they wish to be.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@justus,

i guess know that a lot of your, ”wow.. omg why is this important” comes from not being able to relate directly

bc the issue of female equality used to be huge, a gender, like with race, was considered, ‘less than’, the fact that has changed is a HUGE step forward in regards to social empathy, (especially if you consider the fact most of the rest of the world still does not see this) huge bro, like, one of the largest steps forward,

so i guess, even though you cannot relate, see the significance from a society standpoint

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@manimal, You don’t have any actual argument just “You’re wrong” over and over, but you never really say anything, in any of your posts, so I don’t read them. I’ve never once on this site ever heard you thank anyone, or say you learned anything, or had any interest in others. You’re a fabrication of what you want to be, you’re a fake, a phony. I don’t like reading empty replies.

You shouldn’t need 5 pages of text block to explain stuff. That alone tells me you have no real substance.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 7 years, 10 months ago ago
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Tine (366) (@tine) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@manimal,

notice how others are pointing this out too?

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Tine (366) (@tine) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist,

| 2. People like you who want women to shut up about their equality and stop making them speak out against it. |

but have you asked yourself why he is one those? is it really bc he is anti-female or simply bc he cannot relate, like with world hunger, i dont really feel anything about world hungry bc i cannot directly relate, so when i hear about world hunger statistics i dont really pay attention,

i have a feeling his opinion comes more from that then any kind of hatred, like, i dont think he would be in a room with a woman and actively try to suppress her,

and i think the level of your response is what delighted manimal bc he saw that you were overreacting a little, and man, he loves to pounce on that,

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 7 years, 10 months ago ago

@tine, I did over react. He wasn’t trying to silence women, but its just one of those subjects that there is so much polarity in actual awareness of it.

Many people think women are equal now, and its easy to say that, since they have jobs and work and so forth – there are no laws against women (except the dozens regulating their uterus) in the US and most of Europe. But reality is never that simple. Just because we gave blacks the right to vote, racism didn’t suddenly just disappear.

Now that we have laws FOR women, sexism isn’t going to just disappear. Most of it isn’t obvious either… Much of it is very, very subtle, but profound and fundamental to our society.

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