On Feminism and the Like

TJ (@Justus) 7 years, 12 months ago

As I was taking a state test today, there were two stories that irked me a bit. The first was about a woman who owned a salon and became a leading army pilot during WWII who created a task force of women to do non-combative aviation tasks. She did this in a time when women didn’t do that sort of thing and yadah yadah yadah. Admirable, but very focused on the fact that she was a woman doing all of this. The other was about how gender-specific clothes weren’t a thing and then they were and then they weren’t again because women wanted to rebel rebel against the fact that they were in the first place, and it was kind of ridiculous.

Anyway, there have been a few things bugging me since I read those two stories, the latter of them being the one really angering me. I understand that women used to be oppressed, as well as a large number of minorities, but this is the 21st century. People pretty much everywhere accept the fact that women, people of different ethnic origins, and now people with different sexual orientations can get any job they desire. THERE IS NO NEED TO SHARE THIS TO THE WORLD. An individual is not based on what they are anymore, but how they perform, think, etc.

We get that you’re a woman. We get that you can be a surgeon, or a race car driver, or in the army, or whatever. We get that you’re black and successful. It’s admirable that you didn’t have anything growing up and that now you’re well-off. Have a slice of humble pie! Like, honestly. Equality is a thing now. People know and understand this, well, other than the racist, homophobic, “traditional” people. But bigots will be bigots no matter how much you tell them you’re equal.

One thing that really bugs me is when girls are like, “I’m weak and can’t do [insert laborious task here] Will you do it for me?” and then turn around saying they’re just as capable as anyone to do anything. If you tell me you’re weak, I’ll treat you like that. If you tell me you’re capable, I’ll expect you to do whatever to get what you desire. This is true for whoever plays the, “I’m ______ so I can’t _______” Or, “That’s offensive because my ancient ancestors faced that struggle,” cards.

Times have changed. If you want to be treated equally, act as an equal, and treat everyone equally. Stop encouraging prejudice.

December 6, 2013 at 3:06 pm
Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@manimal, That reminds me of the time Patrick Swayze suggested my momma was a whore, I got up to smash him and he gave me a round-house :p

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Kyle (131) (@kyle) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

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Flynnstone (813) (@flynnstone) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

“Times have changed. If you want to be treated equally, act as an equal, and treat everyone equally. Stop encouraging prejudice.”

You need to look at your life for a moment. You are male, yes? What color is your skin? How much money do you have? Where do you live? Do you have a job? Are you straight? These are rhetorical questions. Just think about them–do you belong to any social minority?

“Stop encouraging prejudice.”

I have never asked a man to grab me on the train. I have never asked my Congressman to vote to prevent me from getting access to the healthcare I need and should be able to receive, given that I am living in the most powerful country in the world, even if I must pay for it. I have never told a man that when I say no I am actually just joking or I don’t really mean no. I have never asked magazines to print pictures of airbrushed/photoshopped women on the cover and I didn’t give them the standards by which they judge my beauty. I also try not to support such media as much as I can, though I know that it is really inescapable unless I go completely off the grid. I have never asked to be cut from an ice hockey team because I didn’t have a penis.
I didn’t ask for it, but I got it anyway.
Also, while I am using singular “I” pronouns, this is not just me. Most women would give the same response if you asked them. I don’t care about what you think “the masses” think or how they act–your normal, everyday woman does not like what she sees in advertisements, on TV, the internet, movies…etc.
Feminism is not about pro-women and anti-men, it is about dismantling the patriarchal system that runs our society. Yes, I know that wording grates on your ears, but patriarchy is part of what is so poisonous to our men as well as women.
“If men were in charge, wouldn’t we all get laid more?” I don’t remember who said this, but it also stood out to me. Men are in charge, and men do get laid. Assuming men latch onto women desperately is just as false as saying men are all about sex. To the extent it is true it is a conditioned attitude. Everyone wants to be loved and valued, the way we are taught to go about it (men and women) is horrifyingly unhealthy. Also, much that is taught about sex positivity is done within LGBT and feminist circles. I suggest you check it out.

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Kyle (131) (@kyle) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@flynnstone, I’m pretty sure men haven’t asked to see commercials about getting hair sewed to their head, or the same photoshopping techniques being applied to make us have a six pack. You want to see the same insecurities as women? Spend a week cruising this forum: http://www.bodybuilding.com . What about custody issues, where the father only has 16% of winning? I never see feminist movements marching for equality there.

“You need to look at your life for a moment. You are male, yes? What color is your skin? How much money do you have? Where do you live? Do you have a job? Are you straight? These are rhetorical questions. Just think about them–do you belong to any social minority?”

What about religion? He could be an atheist, or jewish. They’re pretty badly discriminated against. Maybe he can relate?

This is why I said you have to look at these things from a bigger picture.
Violence, Current state of marketing, Discrimination (age, sex, race, religious) is wrong. Then we might be able to stop arguing with each other and have a chance to make real change.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist,

|| I did over react. ||

this impresses me more than anything you said. good for you man

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, Ignorance is bliss, huh?

The points on your list got crushed, and you deny that there were actual arguments. Because you have no response.

You don’t want to argue, because you can’t win. And that’s all you want out of it.

Your massive, frequent use of ad-hominem fabrications aren’t exactly helping your charade.

Nobody cares how you judge another person’s internet behaviour, and just because you haven’t seen someone say a certain thing or two doesn’t mean they never say those things.
I wouldn’t have followers if I was a jerk, nor would I if I didn’t deliver.

You’re just a hater who likes to derail threads just to validate your own grudges. Having fun?

“Poor little easily offended white knight middle class me”… wanker.

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YHVH (462) (@spaceghost) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@manimal, What about countries where women have no protection against domestic violence unless they’re married? Is that fair? Is that equal?

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@spaceghost, What about countries where men have no protection against domestic violence no matter what? Is that fair?

What about the countries where men gained their legal protection and rights to vote and own land and by working and going to war, while women got these same rights by just calling it “male privilege” and not having testicles? Is that fair?

What about the countries where a woman who does once what millions of men do everyday without getting any credit, is treated like a superhuman hero? Is that fair?

What about the countries where ridiculing men is just funny, while ridiculing women is called “misogyny” and can have legal consequences? Is that fair?

Oh wait, that’s EVERY WESTERN COUNTRY, and every country that’s had the western ways forced down their throat “in the name of democracy and human rights.”

Domestic violence is bullshit. Violence is violence, no matter where it happened or who received it.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@manimal,

in reference to jesus… wow, that sounds weird everytime i say it, he’s right, you aren’t saying anything, you didnt ‘crush’ his arguments, this is all in your head,

you saw he was overreacting and pounced on it, how do i know this? bc you took everything he said to the absolute extreme then acted like he was saying that,

^thats manipulative, and shallow, know any victory you feel like youve achieved here is empty when you are only competing with yourself and will do anything to win,

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YHVH (462) (@spaceghost) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@manimal, After furthur review, I perceive you are sexist.

Why do you come here? You think you are miles ahead of all of us. You’re still here though, as condescending as ever. You push your will around like you honestly believe that what you are doing is the right and only way. You come in on your high horse not ever to greet us but only to tell us that we are wrong and you’re right. You talk as if you have no need for a site like this. You talk as if you don’t care if you help anyone, you just want to be acknowledged and perceived as some great entity.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@spaceghost,

frame him this way, he is the part of you that you need to get over. you know you are getting better when his words no longer invoke any emotional response,

he is a test, a mental paragon you must surpass.

the only control he has over you is what you give him, so do not engage his nonesense, do not get lost in fantasy land where only manimal is right, engage only the truth when you speak to him

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YHVH (462) (@spaceghost) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@tine, Interesting perspective.

Although I see value in what anyone says, it is not always from agreeing with them. I caught a glimpse of his fantasy. It is quite alarming.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@spaceghost,

by all means engage, what i am saying though is, dont let him get to you. dont engage him in that way

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YHVH (462) (@spaceghost) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@tine, Oh, I actually agree with you I was just stating something. I know you’ve had encounters with him on here and I actually already knew what you just said, but it was from you. Just not directed towards me at the time. Thanks though. He’s stroking his ego to this communication, I bet.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@spaceghost,

i know i am

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Liptons (12) (@liptons) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

“Guys I’m a white male so let me lay this down. People just complain too much, clearly there’s no institutionalized racism or sexism.”

I love when there are award winning essays and entire schools on institutionalized racism, misogyny and general patriarchy. Then somebody, 80% of the time a white man, joins the conversation and tries to open everybody’s eyes and then the other 79% of white dudes come in like “Yea man that’s totally how I see it, we must all be right!” It’s basically a never ending case study in how years of patriarchy can keep people blind.

It’s as asinine as creationists saying “it’s called the THEORY of evolution.”

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@manimal, You’re delusional, lost. I don’t read your comments, as its a waste of time and effort. You say nothing convincing, just your own perspective, but you frame it as fact. Disagreement is futile, as you can never possibly be wrong.

Why would I ever read what you have to say? You’ve set yourself up to fail.

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@liptons, lol 1+

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Kyle (131) (@kyle) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@manimal, @ijesuschrist,

In all fairness you both start to heavily blow ass at arguing once you start going at each others throats. The minute someone comes out guns blazing I write their arguments off as bullshit. It’s a good way to point out that they are clinging to an argument out of their ego and not because they want to learn something. In the end right or wrong you still come off as a smug self-righteous asshole.


@spaceghost
, @tine, When someone is throwing rocks it doesn’t mean you need to pick some up as well.

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@kyle, Sorry to hear that. Usually your comments just don’t make sense, so I tend not to reply.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@kyle,

i agree, did you read what i wrote?

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Kyle (131) (@kyle) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@tine,Yeah I did, bro. I was referring to: “notice how others are pointing this out too?”. I’m sorry if it came off as harsh.


@ijesuschrist
, You work on what I said and I’ll work on what you said. If something I say doesn’t make sense, I invite you from now on to call me out on it to help me get better at forming comments.

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@kyle, Your comment made it seem like I was arguing with manimal.

I don’t even discuss anything with him. I made a point of that to him about 6 months ago.

“at his each others throat” is a bit over stated.

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Kyle (131) (@kyle) 7 years, 12 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist,
If you were done 6 months ago you shouldn’t of even acknowledged him.

I did mean “at each others throats.” in kind of a general way. You do this thing that when you’re in opposition of something you get really rude to the person you’re in opposition too. For Example:

“2. People like you who want women to shut up about their equality and stop making them speak out against it.”

“p.s. see how everyone likes my comments and not yours?

UGH THAT MUST SUCK”

Let’s get serious man, you’re a bright guy, have awesome things to say and sometimes make very valid points, but you often ruin all of it by coming off like a youtube commenter. Stick with being constructive.

“I did over react.” You’re at least getting somewhat better. I’m sorry if this seems as if I’m just mainly taking manimals side. He is egging you on as well. Shake hands and call it a day.

Now, @justus, is there anything you, or anyone else wants to add to the subject at hand to restart this conversation? lol

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