On Feminism and the Like

TJ (@Justus) 8 years ago

As I was taking a state test today, there were two stories that irked me a bit. The first was about a woman who owned a salon and became a leading army pilot during WWII who created a task force of women to do non-combative aviation tasks. She did this in a time when women didn’t do that sort of thing and yadah yadah yadah. Admirable, but very focused on the fact that she was a woman doing all of this. The other was about how gender-specific clothes weren’t a thing and then they were and then they weren’t again because women wanted to rebel rebel against the fact that they were in the first place, and it was kind of ridiculous.

Anyway, there have been a few things bugging me since I read those two stories, the latter of them being the one really angering me. I understand that women used to be oppressed, as well as a large number of minorities, but this is the 21st century. People pretty much everywhere accept the fact that women, people of different ethnic origins, and now people with different sexual orientations can get any job they desire. THERE IS NO NEED TO SHARE THIS TO THE WORLD. An individual is not based on what they are anymore, but how they perform, think, etc.

We get that you’re a woman. We get that you can be a surgeon, or a race car driver, or in the army, or whatever. We get that you’re black and successful. It’s admirable that you didn’t have anything growing up and that now you’re well-off. Have a slice of humble pie! Like, honestly. Equality is a thing now. People know and understand this, well, other than the racist, homophobic, “traditional” people. But bigots will be bigots no matter how much you tell them you’re equal.

One thing that really bugs me is when girls are like, “I’m weak and can’t do [insert laborious task here] Will you do it for me?” and then turn around saying they’re just as capable as anyone to do anything. If you tell me you’re weak, I’ll treat you like that. If you tell me you’re capable, I’ll expect you to do whatever to get what you desire. This is true for whoever plays the, “I’m ______ so I can’t _______” Or, “That’s offensive because my ancient ancestors faced that struggle,” cards.

Times have changed. If you want to be treated equally, act as an equal, and treat everyone equally. Stop encouraging prejudice.

December 6, 2013 at 3:06 pm
JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 8 years ago ago

@kyle, ““p.s. see how everyone likes my comments and not yours?

UGH THAT MUST SUCK”

That is my humor, and might I say greatly different circumstances. I told Manimal I was not reading his comments. Obviously he needed a reminder, and another explanation.

“but you often ruin all of it by coming off like a youtube commenter”

u mad bra?

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Kyle (131) (@kyle) 8 years ago ago
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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 8 years ago ago

@kyle, I take your bro and raise you a physical manifestation of some loser’s inner demons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8NPeU90kws

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years ago ago

@kyle,

aww, gotcha, there is a history there with him, there was meaning in saying that from our talks on the forums and within chat, wasnt just meant as random jab out of nowhere, sides, even though manimal and i get heated, i still consider him a friend, even though id doubt he would call me that or look at what i say from that, hes my asshole friend =) and i look forward to the day when he realizes the truth about pain.

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 8 years ago ago

aaaaaand every single comment in this thread is from a male. hahahahahaha

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Q (94) (@Qualohuasca) 8 years ago ago

Feminism = an ideology that states genders should be treated as equal, that all genders should have equal rights and so on.
“Either you’re a feminist, or kind of a jerk”, as the Internet has pointed out to me, a statement with which I agree completely.

“Fundamentalist feminism” may be what OP meant, and I understand this since the internet is filled with false assumptions about how feminism is something that wants only females to thrive, but even in this case the term is used in a wrong way. “Fundamentalist feminism”, I suppose, might even be a sort of good thing – at least it’s direly needed in places like India.

What OP and people who mistakenly speak out against feminism mean is called misandry, and it’s the opposite of misogyny.
Feminism is called feminism since throughout history it’s been the woman who’s been oppressed and treated as cattle – and continues to be seen as the “weaker/fairer/whatever gender” to this day in most areas. It wouldn’t make sense to call it maleism. It might make sense to call it genderism or something – but we have to understand the history of the movement to see why it’s named like it is.

When it comes to aversion towards physical labor or something that’s attributed to (female) “feminists”, I think we can all agree on the fact that there are “bad eggs” in both genders. Solution: don’t open the door to just females (why would you?), but to People. Don’t say women are lazy when men are as well: say (some) People are lazy. This is feminism.

I think both genders can agree that misandry sucks, misogyny sucks, and feminism is awesome. Seriously.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years ago ago

@qualohuasca,

|| Feminism = an ideology that states genders should be treated as equal, that all genders should have equal rights and so on. ||

where i can see that this is your personal accumulated perspective on it, and that your approach to feminism, your idea of what a feminist is, is absolutely as it should be, i do not think this view is generally shared by both genders,

feminism from a female perspective, as i often see it expressed, is always a man vs woman concept, where the man is in the wrong. from this, i have seen this feminist spirit be used as a tool to not listen to outside perspectives, a way to automatically rally against a type of person regardless of merit,

feminism from a male perspective, where i know you split the word off into an extreme category, the word feminism to a man automatically speaks, ”…shit”, this is not always because the man is insecure and therefore intimidated by a ‘strong woman’, often, from a man’s perspective, this label ‘strong woman’ and the feminism from which it spawns is really just a cover up for acting like a bitch (notice i did not say is a, just acting like)

fem – the first three letters signify the angle of this perspective, to be honest, and i know nothing of your actual approach but i sense kindness so dont take this the wrong way, there is likely a difference between how you define and use this contrast to how most people do, and most people use it selfishly and can easily find fault where known lies,

so i like your idea of calling it genderism, it should be balanced

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Q (94) (@Qualohuasca) 8 years ago ago

@tine, your reply made me go on wikipedia and eventually I fished this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_and_gender_feminism which I think sums up nicely the gap this topic is about.
But not before checking the article on feminism, and indeed, it does speak only of women.
My bad, I was wrong with the actual definition. Thank you for pointing it out!

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years ago ago

@kyle,

what a great link, ty once again south park

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years ago ago

@tangledupinplaid21,

aaannnnnnnndddd…. what have you got to say as a female, i am genuinely askin’

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 8 years ago ago

Men have a physical edge, the fastest male sprinters in the world on average have been faster than the female sprinters of the world on average, the strongest male weightlifters of the world on average have been stronger than the female weightlifters of the world.

But another average is that statistically there are more females in the world than men, even though China and India have high infanticide for girls. So who would win in a war between men and women? If one wins, humanity would lose, reproduction would cease and we would all become extinct.

In perspective; some of us are better at some things than others, should the person who is better at a task be overlooked because of political correctness? No, but women and men should have an equal opportunity to be groomed for such tasks. Where there is no obvious disadvantage assigned to sex, there is still a lot of bias for grooming.

Men have become so powerful because power used to be related to warrior ability; a man could fight better so he would move up the military chain quicker, Generals walk the line between warrior and politician, politicians or warlords most often become sovereign.

What we have is residual effects from the outdated systems; just as black people tend to have an average quality of life and social disadvantage, we remember that white people dominated the world for 500+ years and carry over that advantage into today. Just as men dominated since the dawn of humanity, they carry that advantage over into today.

Time and the new culture can balance that to acceptable degrees, but black or female has little consequence these days, wealth rules, maybe it always has, and wealth begets wealth, wealth begets power begets wealth, and the imbalance hence forth will not be related to race or sex but class, but residually race, and to a degree, sex certainly have their disadvantages.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years ago ago

@ijesuschrist,

ooo man, that is TOO fucking funny, i lol’ed so hard when he was like, “well i am going to be the bigger man and hang up firs…*CLICK* damnit!” lolololol

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 8 years ago ago

@tine, I don’t have much interest in getting deep into these types of discussions anymore, but I will sum up by saying that men and women are different, neither gender is “better” than the other, there is mistreatment present in many areas including the mistreatment of females, and that’s not alright. People should question social norms and attitudes, and treat each other nicely. I have also heard that there is more variance within the sexes than between them… so that’s interesting to think about.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years ago ago

@tangledupinplaid21,

|| and treat each other nicely. ||

i so agree, this small concept is the key to it all,

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 8 years ago ago

@tine, we’ve all gotta love and respect ourselves before that can happen.

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 8 years ago ago

@tangledupinplaid21, Where were you a day ago? I was really face palming myself that no women were commenting on ‘feminism n shit’ thread.

Its like you and 3 other females have the guts to post anything. It makes me sad that with 1000+ viewers every day, it seems mostly males contribute to actually talking.

Perhaps that is a part of the issue. Women don’t talk as much as males. Not that its biologically that way – no. Its a self-perpetuating situation.

WOMEN! TALK!


@qualohuasca
, I don’t think you said it, but I bet you think it – feminism is a bad name for the concept. It should just be called gender equality. or equalism. I hate the word feminism, its very loaded.

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TJ (57) (@Justus) 8 years ago ago

@Everyone God damn, that hatred on page two… hahaha. I feel like my original intention was a bit lost in translation. I have an awful tendency to assume that people know all of the forethought that comes with my ideas, and I write to that assumption, and it never ends well. Really, @tangledupinplaid21 got what I was trying to say in her brief summary. Inequality sucks. The reason it bugged me so much is that, yes, men are assholes to act as the better race, but it doesn’t make it okay for women to do the same just because they haven’t been. The reason I specifically said women is because typically in society it’s a socially normal view that men are better, which of course isn’t true, but no man that isn’t sexist (generally) openly says this constantly. Feminists, as I have seen, openly say this. It’s assholeish and it bugs me. Thats really what it comes down to: Everyone’s an asshole and needs to stop. Equality is an issue and there is a time when it should be addressed. One of those times does not include in an instance specifically to spite your counterpart. That’s it.

Now everyone group hug and make up! Love is all we have.

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YHVH (462) (@spaceghost) 8 years ago ago

People mistreat each other.

/thread

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Anonymous (16) (@) 8 years ago ago

Please note:
1. I’m going to focus more on “equality” rather than “feminism” because I hate the word feminism.
2. I’m basing my response on the United States, because I can’t really speak for what it’s like to live in another country.

“People pretty much everywhere accept the fact that women, people of different ethnic origins, and now people with different sexual orientations can get any job they desire.”

“Like, honestly, equality is a thing now. People know and understand this, well, other than the racist, homophobic, “traditional” people. But bigots will be bigots no matter how much you tell them you’re equal.”

I agree with both of these statements, in regard to the fact that the media and “society”—I mean society just as a *generalized population*—portray equality this way. When stories of people being discriminated against blow up, I think it is obvious how it’s portrayed on the news and by the “general public”–is that it’s unacceptable. Of course, not every story of discrimination makes it to the big screen. When dealing with individuals going about their lives, discrimination happens much, much more often. Because I’m caucasian, I don’t know life through the eyes of a muslim american, a black American, a Hispanic American, etc. I don’t know what their everyday interactions are like with the people they come into contact with, but I think there are more racist, homophobic, and “traditional” bigots than you’d expect.
My boyfriend is half Caucasian and half Hispanic. And I will say that I have been in awkward situations with my extended family and family of friends who are more “traditional” (and white) where people are trying to figure out what nationality he is without actually directly saying it and both of us could sense the subtle undertones of disapproval because he “looks kinda foreign” or some shit like that. It disgusts me.

I think this story is important to note, I remember running into a while back: http://www.techyville.com/2012/11/news/unemployed-black-woman-pretends-to-be-white-job-offers-suddenly-skyrocket/

You don’t really notice certain types of discrimination in everyday life if it isn’t directed at you or someone you love. I think this is important to consider regarding your viewpoints on feminism, or as I prefer to put it, gender equality. I will say that I haven’t noticed to much extreme discrimination in my life for having a vag and tits—other than comments made that I disagree with, including quite a few of the statements on here, but my experience working in a stereotypical “male” environment (trail work in national forests) have been mostly good, considering that I pull my own weight and don’t ask people to do my work for me. I think people make assumptions about the opposite gender than are really loaded that stem from negative personal experiences in their lives.
I apologize if this is indirect, but i don’t really know how else to comment on the discussion as a whole, and I’d rather avoid the heat of the argument.

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Anonymous (16) (@) 8 years ago ago

@spaceghost, @justus,

Sorry to seemingly re-start up the discussion, wasn’t my intention, just wanted to throw some of my own viewpoints in.
Love ‘n’ hugs. :)

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 8 years ago ago

@ijesuschrist, You just have to keep replying, don’t you? Can’t just let go…

You don’t read my posts, yet you reply? Then to what are you replying? And WHY?
Haha.

You’ve responded at length many times the last 6 months, but hey, keep telling yourself that you haven’t. You’re not fooling anyone though.

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 8 years ago ago

@manimal, “You just have to keep replying, don’t you? Can’t just let go…”

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TJ (57) (@Justus) 8 years ago ago

@coyotesun “You don’t really notice certain types of discrimination in everyday life if it isn’t directed at you or someone you love.”

I completely agree! I’m simply speaking about my observations from life and people I don’t know terribly well, as I try to be very equality-centered and I like to surround myself with people of similar viewpoints. I can’t say what it’s like being African American, Hispanic American, Muslim American. The amount of intolerance received by those groups and groups like it, including women, homosexuals, transexuals, etc., must be horrible. Don’t mistake me for saying that it isn’t bad, because it is. What I was trying to say is that just because someone is mistreating you, it doesn’t give you the right to go around acting like you deserve the world on a silver platter because of it, and it certainly doesn’t give you the right to mistreat others to deal with your own situation, which is what seems to be happening.

And of course there are exceptions to everything I say. No one is alike, and that must be taken into account when reading my points. That’s another thing I assume people should just know but don’t know I think that(;

Love n’ hugs to you too(:

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Anonymous (16) (@) 8 years ago ago

@justus,
“What I was trying to say is that just because someone is mistreating you, it doesn’t give you the right to go around acting like you deserve the world on a silver platter because of it, and it certainly doesn’t give you the right to mistreat others to deal with your own situation, which is what seems to be happening.”

That’s a great point, I agree completely. I hadn’t noticed your last post until I had posted my own response, my mistake. I agree, though, the eye for an eye mentality doesn’t accomplish much.

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TJ (57) (@Justus) 8 years ago ago

@ijesuschrist @manimal You’re like 12-year-olds! Hahaha, get over yourselves, and I mean that in the nicest way possible(; Forreal though, stop being bitches. This is what this whole post was about, in essence. Now kiss and make up, and use your powers of perspective and voicing your thoughts to good use. “Promote what you love instead of attacking what you hate!” – Infinite Waters which in this case, happens to be each other.

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