On Feminism and the Like

TJ (@Justus) 8 years ago

As I was taking a state test today, there were two stories that irked me a bit. The first was about a woman who owned a salon and became a leading army pilot during WWII who created a task force of women to do non-combative aviation tasks. She did this in a time when women didn’t do that sort of thing and yadah yadah yadah. Admirable, but very focused on the fact that she was a woman doing all of this. The other was about how gender-specific clothes weren’t a thing and then they were and then they weren’t again because women wanted to rebel rebel against the fact that they were in the first place, and it was kind of ridiculous.

Anyway, there have been a few things bugging me since I read those two stories, the latter of them being the one really angering me. I understand that women used to be oppressed, as well as a large number of minorities, but this is the 21st century. People pretty much everywhere accept the fact that women, people of different ethnic origins, and now people with different sexual orientations can get any job they desire. THERE IS NO NEED TO SHARE THIS TO THE WORLD. An individual is not based on what they are anymore, but how they perform, think, etc.

We get that you’re a woman. We get that you can be a surgeon, or a race car driver, or in the army, or whatever. We get that you’re black and successful. It’s admirable that you didn’t have anything growing up and that now you’re well-off. Have a slice of humble pie! Like, honestly. Equality is a thing now. People know and understand this, well, other than the racist, homophobic, “traditional” people. But bigots will be bigots no matter how much you tell them you’re equal.

One thing that really bugs me is when girls are like, “I’m weak and can’t do [insert laborious task here] Will you do it for me?” and then turn around saying they’re just as capable as anyone to do anything. If you tell me you’re weak, I’ll treat you like that. If you tell me you’re capable, I’ll expect you to do whatever to get what you desire. This is true for whoever plays the, “I’m ______ so I can’t _______” Or, “That’s offensive because my ancient ancestors faced that struggle,” cards.

Times have changed. If you want to be treated equally, act as an equal, and treat everyone equally. Stop encouraging prejudice.

December 6, 2013 at 3:06 pm
JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 8 years ago ago

@justus, “Forreal though, stop being bitches. ”

The irony of this stings my eyes.

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 8 years ago ago

@qualohuasca, The whole equality thing is a lie.
Feminism was formed in the dark ages, by female supremacists. Feminism was never “stolen by hateful hags,” it was created by them and they’re still in charge of it.

One of the most influential feminist writings from way back when is a book by Lucrezia Marinella, called “The nobility and excellence of women, and the defects and deficiencies of men.”
As you can probably tell from the name of the book, and the very term feminism, authentic feminism is all about female supremacy. Feminism is a philosophy where men are seen as stupid, soulless, worthless animals that only exist to serve women.

Much like the way black people were seen by the white settlers of North America before the civil war.

You think feminism is a good, happy thing, right? Well, look at who the feminist leaders are and WHAT THEY REALLY SAY.
It’s just as hilarious as when a socialist says “Oh but we’re a modern, progressive, light version of socialism” but their leaders are hardcore old school communists who dream of making their country like East Germany.

The followers of ideologies are just drones, the people with the plans work hard to manipulate and lure people to carry out their dirty work.

“Feminism is called feminism since throughout history it’s been the woman who’s been oppressed and treated as cattle”

-This just isn’t true.
Billions of men have been forced to go to war, very few survived. Meanwhile the women could just stay at home, unaffected.
Billions of men have died at work, not a lot of women have. While the men spent most of their waking time in hard physical labour, the women just took care of the kids and kept the house in shape.
Back in the day, only men had to pay tax. Women didn’t have to pay a cent.
Men had to build their own houses, or spend all their money to buy a house… women would just move in for free.

Throughout history, women have had it a lot easier and safer than men. But much more limited.
Because that’s the price of comfort and security.

It’s not really about genders, it’s about character. And these days, people expect the freedom and strength that comes from danger and hard work… while enjoying the comfort and security that comes from being someone’s pet.
That just doesn’t add up.

People are quick to bring the statistics on how [INSERT DEMOGRAPHIC GROUP HERE] have less than [INSERT OTHER DEMOGRAPHIC HERE] in certain areas… but they’ll deny the statistics that show how it’s the other way around in other areas.

And most importantly, they never stop to ask WHY x has less than y. As if it just randomly happened and wasn’t the result of their actions.

People have what people deserve. In order to get one thing, you must sacrifice another.

We’re already equal, but different. If you want one of our privileges, give up one of yours first. Be proactive and initiative, don’t take things for granted.

Peace and love
//Elion

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 8 years ago ago

Time for a quote

“I am most anxious to enlist everyone who can speak or write to join in checking this mad, wicked folly of ‘Women’s rights’, with all its attendant horrors, on which her poor feeble sex is bent, forgetting every sense of womanly feelings and propriety.

Feminists ought to get a good whipping.
Were women to ‘unsex’ themselves by claiming equality with men, they would become the most hateful, heathen and disgusting of beings and would surely perish without male protection.”

-Queen Empress Victoria I, the most powerful woman in history

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TJ (57) (@Justus) 8 years ago ago

@ijesuschrist That was the joke! Lighten up, man. Jesus.


@manimal
And this can be applied to every situation of anything compared to anything, most commonly everything compared to white men. Although we aren’t entirely equal. Assuming you’re talking about developed countries, sure. But in places like the Middle East, where women are treated poorly and have no real rights or safety, that’s where the argument gets changed. But that’s not what was being talked about in the first place, so we can save it for a different thread.

By the way, Elion is an awesome name.

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Flynnstone (813) (@flynnstone) 8 years ago ago

@ijesuschrist, I’m actually a woman, and I posted earlier. 2nd page I think.
I’ve not posted since because 1. I am studying for finals and 2. it didn’t seem like the reply I got was going to lead to a productive discussion about the topic, it was just telling me I was wrong and to go educate myself.
I have been following the discussion to see if other women would post eventually, but I didn’t really think it a big deal to reply until now…my name’s not gendered, though, and I don’t have a picture of my face up, so I guess it’s easy to overlook if you don’t know me I guess :)

I don’t want to address why women may not seem to be posting as much as guys, as I’m sure there’s several reasons and women may have different reasons than myself for posting/not posting.

@tangledupinplaid21
, hey girl! :)

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 8 years ago ago

@justus, Haha you nigger. Just a joke, lighten up.

I really don’t care if people use the word bitch. But if we were talking about racism, and I just said “Hey quit being a nigger” in the fucking post….?

Really? Come on dude. You’re clearly part of the problem here, you seem completely in the dark as to the actual situation.

If you’re not part of the solution – you’re part of the problem.

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YHVH (462) (@spaceghost) 8 years ago ago

@sasho-stoyanov, I thought…I was sure….

I guess I should’ve made sure I killed you.

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Liptons (12) (@liptons) 8 years ago ago

@manimal Let’s play the argue like a middle schooler game. “Look guys I have all these quotes for my argument, just like i learned in 6th grade e.l.a.!”

So your argument is that “Feminism is scurry cause women say men are the enemy and that makes me penis-scared.”

Let’s see what famous existentialist and feminist Simone De Beauvoir has to say, not megalomaniacal monarch Victoria.

“To catch a husband is an art; to hold him is a job.” – That’s weird, it sounds almost like she wants… a husband? But I thought feminists hated men! Huh isn’t that funny.

“No one is more arrogant toward women, more aggressive or scornful, than the man who is anxious about his virility.” – Damn dude Simones calling you out.

“Representation of the world, like the world itself, is the work of men; they describe it from their own point of view, which they confuse with absolute truth.” – Ohhh shittt she’s got you pegged like a nerd playing dodge ball.

“If the feminine issue is so absurd, it is because the male’s arrogance made it “a discussion.” – Damn she’s blaming your penis for why you’re so stupid.

So if feminism is just an excuse for people to complain about not having opportunities, why would somebody so damn successful be studying it? Or love men and end up married in her life? You are what happens when people disregard countless years of feminist study and have opinions on it. It’s like if you watched a Harry Potter movie and told somebody J.K. Rowling is a shitty writer.

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 8 years ago ago

@justus, Not sure what you’re addressing, what is it that can be applied compared to almost anything?
Yeah the middle east thing is fucked up, but those issues don’t exist here. Except in the countries with loads of immigrants from the middle east who demand to have their old (illegal) ways over here.
Funny thing though, how those women often defend their oppression (oh I mean “culture” of course), it’s sad.

Thanks for the compliment. It’s an alright name, at least I’m not going around calling myself Jesus Christ.
Your name reminds me of the pimp from those gigolo movies.


@liptons
, Did something wicked just crawl up your mangina and die?

What is penis-scared, and what makes you think someone feels that way?

“That’s weird, it sounds almost like she wants… a husband?”

-Catching and domesticating a human being… yeah that doesn’t sound fucked up at all, does it?

Replace “husband” with “negro” and all of a sudden you can’t pretend it’s innocent anymore… strange thing…

Chauvinists want to tame women, feminists want to tame men. Out of hatred and imaginary superiority. Two sides of the same fucking coin.

“Damn dude Simones calling you out.”

-If you’re gonna go ad hominem, at least try to make sense.

First of all, that quote states an opinion, nothing else. Although I agree with what she said.

But it’s not a matter of fearing for one’s own virility or position, or even being arrogant per se. It’s true about the lowly, weak guys, and also about supremacists such as feminists themselves.
I don’t oppose women getting stronger and more free, I salute and support it… but feminism is just an attempt to artificially level the gap at the expense of others, and without the necessary process.

“Representation of the world, like the world itself, is the work of men; they describe it from their own point of view,”

-So science is just our point of view? Well, that’s just the kind of babble that makes a lot of people think girls are chronically stupid. It’s not helping.
Science is science, it is neutral and objective, it’s nobody’s point of view.

As for society, the cities, the conveniences and privileges in it, etc… all built by men of the past. By men, for men and women alike.
Can’t deny that.

I’m very glad that women are finally joining in building the world around them, not just passively receiving. I’m very glad that they’re breaking free, not just floating along.
But feminism jeopardizes all of it.

“when people disregard countless years of feminist study and have opinions on it”

-If they were actual studies of actual things, there wouldn’t be a word ending with “-ist” before the word “studies,” unless the -ists were the ones being studied.

As for Rowling, she’s been targeted by raging feminists many times… so I don’t see how this helps your cause.
As for her books, meh, overrated.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years ago ago

@liptons,

|| “No one is more arrogant toward women, more aggressive or scornful, than the man who is anxious about his virility.” – Damn dude Simones calling you out. ||

yea, dang man, that deep

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years ago ago

@sasho-stoyanov,

=D

| And this account is probably also going to be removed by this little bitch Martijn. What a cunt! Anyway. |

yea^ but probably only bc you added this part =P

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years ago ago

@flynnstone,

ay, but there is no reason you should feel oppressed here, i am sorry that some ppl come on strong, i think you probably know this to be a dude thing, i guess, we need your opinion, and that of other females because look at how the convo has gone,

its turned into a pissing match…

and this is why we need woman, bc woman HATE pissing matches bc you guys tend to be more rational and pissing on each other just gets both wet… and stinky…

which is why you should feel strong enough to post your opinion here, we need to hear it from you, and if we tell you are wrong about how you are feeling as a woman, you need to tell us its not about right/wrong, its how about it is, to you, not them, the males… who automatically thinks they know more than you

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years ago ago

@manimal,

| Time for a quote |

…….sooooooooooooooo……… [ is that an example of how you feel as well….. ? ] or are you just making a point?

bc if you are, you do realize the time frame from which she was speaking from…. right?

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years ago ago

@manimal,

| You just have to keep replying, don’t you? Can’t just let go… … You’ve responded at length many times the last 6 months, but hey, keep telling yourself that you haven’t. You’re not fooling anyone though. |

oooo… man, the irony i am choking on reading this from you, do you not see that you are the exact same way man?

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YHVH (462) (@spaceghost) 8 years ago ago

@tine, He never said why he still comes here like I asked him. Had no problem continuing his thing with Jon though. I guess it’s obvious he comes here just to do what he always does.

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iamhedonism (1) (@iamhedonism) 8 years ago ago

Yes, all the gender nominations is becoming boring. Oh, women are discriminated against? Really? I haven’t faced any… Men and Women are not equal.. No one is equal, it’s an arbitrary concept. People are different (men vs men or men vs women or women vs women).
People should do what they are good at! They should be afforded the same rights across the board(where applicable) but as far as true equality. It will never happen..

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Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years ago ago

@ijesuschrist, The reason that only guys participate on this site is because discussing and arguing about stuff is a very masculine activity. And seeing as though most men are masculine-type people, and most girls are feminine, you’ll naturally have way more guys on a site like this, debating and arguing and discussing. Feminine people see no point in stuff like this. There are differences between men and women, despite what feminists want to think.

In their push for equality, feminists actually disown the “feminine” aspect of women by trying to fit them into a masculine dominated culture. The reason why women on average haven’t been as successful as men (on average) is because they aren’t as focused on goals, achieving, succeeding (on average) and all that stuff that you have to be good at in order to “make it” in this culture.

Feminine qualities are marginalized and disowned, and even most women consider these qualities unimportant and trivial or even negative, and they try more and more to fit into the masculine way of being in the world. It’s like raising kids and doing stuff like that is considered pointless nowadays because you don’t get anything out of it monetarily or in terms of status.

So feminists, and people who support feminine equality, are just seeking homogenization of men and women, and that is not equality at all. That’s actually pro-masculinity and anti-feminine. They take for granted the tenants of this society, which is completely masculine-oriented, and then seek to mold women (or feminine type people) into that way of acting.

So before you call out other people (@justus) for not understanding the situation, look at yourself. If you don’t understand why mostly males participate on this website and want more girls to participate, then you obviously don’t see the natural reason as to why this happens.

Instead of shaking your head at the fact that more girls don’t participate, you’d see it’s only natural. But that’s what feminist views will do to you, and instead of seeing the naturalness of it, you deem it a failure on the part of women and call for them to fit into the masculine mold of communicating.

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 8 years ago ago

@mikeyw829, “discussing and arguing about stuff is a very masculine activity”

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

Now I am sad.

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Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years ago ago

@ijesuschrist, that was a dumb response.

Just like dancing and painting and doing right brained stuff like that are feminine qualities.

I mean if you don’t see how that is the case, you are misinformed. I could understand why your views are so confused though.

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 8 years ago ago

@mikeyw829, Prove to me arguing and discussing things is a more ‘masculine’ thing, and define masculine. Is it based on hormones? Can you elaborate on the biology that would make men more argumentative and discussion-oriented than women?

Having it not being stemmed simply from history?

Did you look at the link I posted?

There is an area where women work, are more competitive, and take the role of the what the ‘man’ does in western society:

Where Women Are More Competitive Than Men

Women are more competitive than men;
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/women-more-competitive-than-men-study/144476-19.html

Female monkeys more dominant in groups with more males;
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080715204745.htm

The majority of the lemuridae family of primates has females who are more dominant than males.

Please, clearly and succinctly explain how you came to the conclusion that discussing and arguing is a “masculine” thing and not a societal thing?

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Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years ago ago

@ijesuschrist, Prove it? Like something can only be true if there’s a scientific study on it. Using your own brain and observational skills are so undervalued… I don’t know why.

And if something is just a product of history, well explain to me how history developed in that specific way? History is shaped by biology, and biology shapes history. It’s impossible to say which drives which.

I’m talking about the masculine and feminine archetypes. There are qualities that are masculine, and there are qualities that are feminine. Masculine does not mean “male.” Women have masculine qualities. Men have feminine qualities. On average, men are more masculine, and women are more feminine. This has nothing to do with human laws or rules.

I described above how this society revolves around and respects only the qualities that are masculine: linear, ideological thinking; pursuing goals; acquiring stuff, etc. So more masculine type people will thrive, who can keep their heads down and focus on little goals. And feminine qualities are marginalized. So pushing for “female equality” means to make women, who are naturally more feminine, into masculine players, which means they disown their natural inclinations. Because feminism only focuses on superficialities and not the root cause of the problem.

And in that first article, even though the women are in charge, it’s still a MASCULINE based society. The women are acting like your stereotypical western man. It’s the same thing as a western, male dominated culture, only the women are in charge. they didn’t go into specifics about how the culture is run, but if it’s the same, it’s still a masculine-dominated culture, only women are in charge instead of men. In this case, the women wear the pants and the men are the feminine bitches. It’s really no different though.

I never said women can’t do stuff like have a career as well as men can. Just that naturally, they are not as inclined to do so. That first article you showed me is a society constructed by the human mind and by rules and laws (ideology instead of natural inclination). Just like men aren’t as naturally inclined to raise children and be a “mothering” figure. There are NATURAL differences. Of course you can find exceptions to every rule, that doesn’t mean that on average, things aren’t a certain way. Just like men and women LOOK different, they also ACT different. Sure, there are more feminine looking men and more masculine looking women, but on average, men look more masculine and women more feminine, and they also act that way.

In the article, they say, “This distinction has implications for hiring managers, policymakers, business owners, educators and parents alike who want to increase diversity in the workplace.” And that is looking at this whole thing from a masculine perspective. It’s taking a neutral observation and using it to validate a certain perspective, which is about as “unscientific” as you can get. That’s the state of “science” (aka religion) nowadays though.

But I mean that is clearly changing, seeing as though there are more women in college now than men. Women are becoming more assertive and are better at using their masculine qualities. They aren’t just submissive “bitches” anymore. And men are becoming more feminized, more flowing, more accomodating of opposing viewpoints, more artistic, less assertive more submissive etc. Probably has to do with why low testosterone is a growing problem in men, because they aren’t acting in accord with their natural disposition. This is leading to a homogenization of our population. And the men and women who support feminist views are just adding to this.

Instead of harping on one small point of my original argument, why don’t you respond to the rest of it.

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 8 years ago ago

@mikeyw829, “On average, men are more masculine, and women are more feminine. This has nothing to do with human laws or rules.”

Thanks! That’s all I needed to read.

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 8 years ago ago

@mikeyw829, And, continual use of the words masculine and feminine is really counter productive in this entire scheme of things, since masculine is tied to male, and feminine is tied to female.

In the Shashi culture, they would call men the feminine ones, and women the masculine ones from their perspective. You calling them the other way around shows me that you’re still not understanding what I’m saying.

Culture drives things, and given we have an absolutely advertisement-influenced society, we, on an individual scale, are not in control of how our gender defines us. It is predefined by the people before us, and for centuries its been a certain gender-bias towards things.

Men like sports, women like cooking.

It may be true, statistically, but biologically I find it bullshit. Neither of these activities have very little to do with anything in our past, but if you look closely, they have been engrained in us by corporations. Women stayed home to work, and therefore they were expected to buy more, and therefore advertisements were directed to them to buy things for the kitchen to make their man happy.

If it is continued to be believed that certain actions are more apt to be taken up by a certain gender, all that happens is a self-perpetuation of a single ideology of infinite possibilities.

Women tend to cook more because their mothers tended to cook. Boys tend to watch sports because their fathers tended to watch. I would argue these aren’t feminine or masculine things.

Giving birth and breast feeding are feminine things. Sexing girls is masculine. A dick is masculine, a vagina is feminine. Thats about it. The rest is societal based.

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Flynnstone (813) (@flynnstone) 8 years ago ago

@tine, Well, that’s just it, though isn’t it? I don’t participate as much because I have no interest in getting into pissing matches, and I am willing to bet a lot of the women on this site have no time for it either. So it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I’ve actually posted a lot less as the overall quality of discussions has gone down or gotten repetitive. I think this is the third or fourth thread I’ve seen about feminism that’s been run by guys. Not that I think any less of the site. I just pick and choose where/when I give my opinions to avoid the nonsense.

As for who is more argumentative, if you’ve ever been in a women’s space before (locker room, restroom, bridal shower, etc.)…Women get into discussions just as much as guys. I think the rules and style of debate is sometimes different though.

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