There seems to be a lot of mystics and psuedo- intellectuals that regularly post on these forums. Normally, this of no problem, there will always be those willing to believe anything, but here it seems to be acceptable to be ignorant of the science you are twisting to fit your perspective. People on here use Quantum Mechanics to provide evidence for their idea of a one world consciousness, energy fields, blah, blah, blah, without having any real knowledge of the Quantum world and its processes. There are constant streams of the Spiritual attempting to co-opt new scientific revelations to provide proof of their beliefs. Enlightenment is a cute term that is constantly thrown around here, as if a constant barrage of ‘we are one’ rhetoric makes you of ‘higher’ conscious than someone else. So can we please place ourselves in perspective and be conscious of the information we are consuming and creating?
@spaceghost, Nice evasion. It depends on what you consider an experiment. Do I think through the possibilities, coming to conclusions and then looking for established support of those conclusions? Yes, sometimes I do. Do I study the mathematics of Quantum Mechanics and come to wild and unsupported conclusions? No, I do not. And yes, like most people I read the information and theories provided by others and attempt to string together a comprehensive picture of the world I exist in. I attempt to learn more in order to be better equipped in understanding new and more complex ideas that I do’t quite understand fully at the moment? Are there any other evasive questions you would like to ask, or can you go ahead and answer the two I proposed to you?
@psychonaut, Interesting. I read the first meditation, will read the others later on, and it comes to no conclusion on knowledge or it’s essence, I assume this question will be further expounded on throughout the succeeding meditations.
I’m unsure if you have watched Jason Silvia We are the god now http://vimeo.com/52701660. He talks about The Denial of Death Book by Ernest Becker. Where he talks about the human mind is under great strain so they give them self illusion of something higher and how there is three main things people use. If you don’t wanna watch the entire thing just watch from 3 minutes to 5 minutes. Its really the same thing religion has done to knowledge any thing someone cant comprehend it must be god. Neil degrass Tyson talks about how scientist have done it over the years http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti3mtDC2fQo. go ten minutes to 14 minutes and he explains it. The limits of someones knowledge they to go a *magic*/god point. He says it in other parts but I don’t feel like re watching to find it for you so if you want to see. My main point in this rambling is just people stop research and point to god when something happens they cant understand. But when they don’t believe in god they go into a mode that allows them to live forever with out technology thus enlightenment. Then they get tricked by the feeling of enlightenment or a higher power by their brain. Ever heard of the god helmet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y02UlkYjSi0 Here is a video Morgan Freeman voices about how god is product of your mind and how a certain part of your brain giving magnetic push on the right central lobe giving you the feeling of someone else.
i am speaking more about mystics, shamans, enhancement shaman, etc, than quantum theorist, bc, i agree with it is kinda silly how people use it, but i propose this is because you do not yet know how to decipher an individual’s vastly different perspective into something you can see,
every different idea out there comes from some sort of cause/effect, simply bc your cause/effect perspective does not label or connect things like they, does not meant here is no value in what they are saying,
@yaelalonso, Good post. There’s way too many people who are just accepting something as truth without proper rational thinking. But, there’s also many who are well read and good at rational thinking. Let us just hope the scale doesn’t tip too much toward the irrational side…
@tine, I definitely understand where they are coming from and what they are attempting to say, but it becomes irritating when they falsify information and twist the facts to reach those conclusions. If you don’t fully comprehend the tools you are using to explain your reality, then you have no idea what you are actually perceiving and you live in imagination land, where it seems many seem to live.
and please know, i realize there are lots of 1 dimensional thinkers out there, i guess, dont allow the limitations of the individual’s perspective prevent you from exploring the idea yourself, if you see more deeply than you will get more out of what they are saying,
pseudo – science is not the goal with concepts of the mind, these different approaches to reality have been given that name bc they are not understood, often, bc the person does not want to take the time to understand, and it is only bc of this that they are not deemed relevant
how is that your concern? do you think posting this will actually change that? this post is about how you feel .. above .. others. yes yes i know, ‘no its not’, but yea, it is.
if you see the discrepancies, say something or dont, this post is about you though
this site is designed for ppl with limited knowledge to come talk, debate, and grow,
nobody is coming to the table with a complete understanding, if they approach it this way that is a reflection of their ego, not reality.
so why does it make you disgusted to see people make statements, even ignorant statements. if you see something false, why be angered at it, engage it, find out why first, then give input,
@tine, Just like your post was about you, all of our post are us expressing ourselves and our ideas, that’s how thought and language works. You utilize it to express yourself, obviously you can’t express someone else.
@ijesuschrist, Yet scientific inquiry has taught us more about consciousness than any other field of study. Philosophy is intriguing, but it merely showcases the prowess of consciousness to obsess over itself, not the essence of what it is or how it manifests.
‘about you’ – you wanted to ppl to know you were smarter than these.. pseudo – fools. this is what i meant and, | all of our post are us expressing ourselves and our ideas, that’s how thought and language works. | your words, prove my point
@tine, Disgusted? I never said that. Angered, no. Confused, yes. I am confused because people here claim to be enlightened, awake, etc. while doing everything possible to believe in what feels good to them instead of what is. I could care less what someone believes, but if you’re saying you’re thinking about life and then come to conclusions that hold no bearing on reality, I must question how seriously you are thinking.
@yaelalonso, on a forum such as this one, it’s bound to happen. I’m all for education instead of premature conclusions, but I don’t believe there’s any kind of smart way to enforce that kind of mindset, or that it would even be moral considering free speech. Also, pseudo-intellectualism may even be a sort of semi-necessary stepping stone on the “road” to actual intellectualism. I wouldn’t know, of course. I’m still very much a pseudo-intellectual, myself. Only time and effort will fix that, anyway.
The only real problem is people thinking “A” is “B” because they’re using the terms wrong – like with quantum mechanics. Sort of like people thinking mental disorders are demons/spirits. With the latter example it’s not that bad as long as you don’t start enforcing your view onto others. I also think this should be a mutual thing – let the veiled be veiled. Those who know better will know better, because they find out for themselves, from the real sources, and question what they consider their knowledge. Questioning is paramount for knowledge, but it can be painful – that’s why no one should be forced to do it.
Also, why not let people believe in their commercialized view of enlightenment? Once they’ve meditated long enough, they’ll see it for what it is (the permanent death of the individual self while the body is still alive – some may liken this to brain death). The benefits of meditation, at least, are beginning to be well documented. It’s not even a waste of time, then, as long as you don’t overdo it – as it is with all things.
@lucider3, thanks for the videos! Awesome that you had the time to fish these out. I know what I’ll be doing for the rest of the evening… :)
@tine, Maybe you can interpret it like that, or maybe I would like people to be held accountable for their words and ideas and actually care enough about them to properly represent them by truly understanding them, not just pouting at their own ‘exceptional’ perspectives. And aren’t you doing the same thing to me as you claim I am doing to others?
@yaelalonso, I can see that. It’s too bad. :T That’s also always what happens when you question someone’s perspectives outside of the scientific community, where such questioning is welcomed. You do know what Christians are like when you point out there might be no God, right? They get defensive. It is the same thing with all religions (including, I suppose you could say “some forms of atheism”, by which I mean fundamental atheism), and also with “spiritualism” (which has become a sort of religion in the modern age).
The good news, of course, is that progress has always been met with ridicule and defensiveness by dogma and ignorance. It’s nothing new. Still, progress has always prevailed – eventually. It sadly doesn’t mean superstition has disappeared, and this may in fact even be impossible to accomplish (since superstition tends to transform along with language), but that’s thankfully not entirely essential.
I think yours was/is a good post. Keep it up, you.