question to atheists

CJV (@somuch2say) 10 years, 9 months ago

this is what i know:

in the spiritual world…you make a plan…based on what you believe you need to learn in the physical world (not restricted to earth)…when you incarnate to the physical world you are suppose to figure out your plan and execute it (fate or destiny)…your main goal is to connect to the light within you…but; you also have to gain life experiences…you have 144 live times to complete your task…if; you fail…your spirit/soul disperses into space…

February 26, 2011 at 3:31 am
CJV (2) (@somuch2say) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

how do you explain your existence?
I obviously understand and fully believe in evolution but how do you explain evolution even starting. What came before the atoms?

I’m curious how this is seen from an atheist’s point of view?

[Hidden]
Martijn Schirp (112,780)A (@martijn) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

Its an infinite regression problem and it seems its a paradox because humans think lineary. The same question can be asked for everything. What came before the big bang? What is outside the universe? If God created everything, who created God?

Also, your question implies an answer, as in, you validate the existence of an answer by asking the question while in reality there could be no answer and the questions has the same basis in reality as “how do you open your hand, grow your lungs or blue your eyes?” You’re doing that just the same as the universe is earthing and the earth is peopling, but you can’t explain how.

[Hidden]
CJV (2) (@somuch2say) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

actually i wasn’t implying there was an answer. not at all. I’m curious as to how others rationalize this. I ask because these are questions I seek to answer within myself.

[Hidden]
CJV (2) (@somuch2say) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

I’m currently reading conversations with god, great so far. And after I’m reading the god delusion. It’s all got me really thinking. Two ends of the spectrum. :)

[Hidden]
Martijn Schirp (112,780)A (@martijn) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

Ah sure, my fault. My answer is still in there tho, I feel like we can’t rationalize it in the same way we can’t rationalize how we walk. We just do it. In the same way we can’t rationalize the universe (it just happens or it just does it, depending on your metaphysical assumptions.) I do believe there is a transcedental ‘something’ that can be experienced and also cannot be put into words.

[Hidden]
Martijn Schirp (112,780)A (@martijn) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

That one is on my reading list aswell, Jordan made me.

[Hidden]
CJV (2) (@somuch2say) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

it was because of him that I decided to read it. haha :)

[Hidden]
Chief O’Dell (0) (@keithman) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

I like this conversation. More people need to be asking these questions and avoiding the usual “God” explanation for everything that can’t be explained.
Time to grow up, people!

[Hidden]
Syn.Ther. (46) (@luna) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

Accept Time to be only relevant to us, as mortal humans, if you stay within the 3 known dimensions it makes perfect sense.

The ingredients are everywhere, the conditions are by chance, we are just lucky. enjoy it.

2 things are infinite, the universe and mankind’s stupidity.

[Hidden]
Luna (0) (@sweetbeast) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

My question is : Why even bother about finding answers ? Why not just live ? Have fun, read, learn, experience… I will never understand why people “torture” themselves seeking answers that they will NEVER find.

[Hidden]
Syn.Ther. (46) (@luna) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

@Luna (what’s in a name)

Living is finding answers, or perhaps you have a very different definition of just live

discovery of ones true self is torture, to rid the doctrine, after that the torture ends and freedom starts.

And to state answers can never be found equals giving up.

I refuse to do so, and believe me when I say I am past torture

Just because the answers are not what you wish them to be

does not mean they are less true.

How can you deny millions of fellow citizens the joy and hope they find.

My 2 cts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY7u4ITYbVQ

[Hidden]
Anonymous (1) (@) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

I would generalize an atheist to have the same sort of -if not more- convoluted explanation of how things went down and somehow make sense to “them”. Though I wouldn’t put it past most people to see past all the mythology and delusion to see that they really can’t see….those who will explain this world away are those who want it to be true. Some want it to be true so badly that it becomes real and hey, who I am to disrupt them of their peace of mind. We may be anything including nothing. I’m spiritual but not religious but lately I’ve been sliding to the belief side of the spectrum and I feel so much better. Definitely a lot less selfish and introverted than in my “baby” training thoughts. Oh the joy of discovery. What tonics it may brew…

[Hidden]
Alex Eastman (71) (@alex) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

There probably isn’t an answer we can find while we are alive. ‘Our minds are limited by our brains.’
But if anything, I think what happens is the universe eventually collapses back onto itself and either restarts the big bang, or as what some scientist believe to be possible, “membrane theory,” where we are just one of many multi-verses, and when two collide, (like the big-bang) it converts the energy generated by the colliding membranes into matter.
But there is always that question “What is beyond THAT?”
There can’t be just NOTHING, because that too is something. it is space.
Humans are extremely narrow-minded compared to the universe. We can’t imagine infinity, but we also can’t imagine nothing as well.

We will probably never know…but perhaps there lies the answer… we will never know because there is no answer!

[Hidden]
Kaleb (0) (@huskeyk) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

i’ve always subscribed that evolution is just the “how” and not the “why.” some things are just bigger than the human scope. and, as–for lack of a better term–“miraculous” as the human perception is, perhaps there are concepts that we just cannot comprehend. this doesn’t imply that there’s some other being, or existence necessarily, but that there are some forces that we cannot understand, no matter how hard we try.

one of the only downsides of being human is that we feel a need to understand our surroundings. i feel that the tragedy of the human condition is that we’ll never really get there

[Hidden]
chris de vera (4) (@yogini) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

i don’t think our minds are limited by our brains per se…but maybe more by our own habits of thinking (about the universe, our mind, and our own reality). the thing is, the universe is a physical phenomena…and our mind or consciousness, while encased in a physical body, is not quite so…. That’s why many mystics, philosophers, gurus, and scientists even suggest that if we can understand the nature of our minds (the universe within)…if we can get past that…we will be able to comprehend the universe without. Maybe then…we can come up with an exact answer to this beautiful question.

i sure as hell have not mastered my own mind…but in the mean time, it’s also fun and exciting to come up with possible answers…however limited, conflicting, or far from the truth they may be. it’s in our nature to wonder, to search for meaning, and search for answers…i think it’s the best part of LIVING.

[Hidden]
Bryan Hellard (307)M (@xyver) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

Why 144?

[Hidden]
Derek (1point6180339887) (0) (@1point6180339887) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

Interesting facts about 144: 144 is 12 squared; 144 is the 12th Fibonacci number; the golden isosceles triangle has two 72 degree angles and one 36 degree angle – 2 X 72 = 144. Just a cool number.

I see that this question is asked to atheists. But whether a person is a theist or an atheist, they still won’t be able to know for certain what started the existence of matter. It seems impossible to know. Before atoms there were free standing quarks and leptons, but that lasted for trillionths of a second. That was so far in the past that my statement about quarks existing outside of their normal pairings might very well be wrong, but it has been logically deduced by experts in the field, so I guess I’ll roll with it.
We can understand more and more about HOW the universe works and HOW it is composed, but not WHY. The only way for us to better understand this infinitely complex universe is to study it and draw logical conclusions. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Personally, I am atheist. I do not BELIEVE that a single deity created and governs the universe. However, I do not deny the possibility, because just as there is no evidence for God, there is also no evidence that proves that God doesn’t exist. I remain on the fence, but as a whole I feel like no human religion is completely right (although I am fascinated by Buddhism).
There seems to be a reciprocal relationship between matter and consciousness (double-slit experiment is one example), so if I had to take a guess as to what started this physical universe, I would probably say consciousness, since it seems to be non-physical. But then that begs the question “What created consciousness?”…It’s a Möbius strip of mental conquest.

[Hidden]
Cole (3) (@colemathis) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

In my opinion our exsistance is a mere expression of probablility. Humans and life everywhere on earth can be seen a collection of complicated and repeating chemical processes. Chemical reactions and processes occur everywhere in the universe because of the laws of physics. on earth the chemical processes have created this thing we call life, and these processes have become complicated enough to create this feeling we call consciousness. In an infinite universe all probabilities must be expressed eventually no matter what, we just happen to be one of those probabilities created by the laws of physics. Explaining our existence is no more simple or complicated than explaining why the earth moves around the sun, and the universe is what it is.

[Hidden]
Michael (26) (@mike) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

Cole,
While I agree it is entirely possible that consciousness may simply be a product of chemical processes, the challenge still lies in us offering an accurate explanation of the mind and of consciousness in purely physical terms. From a scientific perspective we are still currently unable to account for many characteristics of the mind; mental events, personal experiences, thoughts, memories, imagination and other properties which are not spatially located but are cognitive more than anything. My skepticism lies in how we fall short of being able to describe most of the diverse mental experiences we have, as well as account for much of the ‘immaterial’ aspects of our mentality (i.e. consciousness).

[Hidden]
Michael (26) (@mike) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

@Cole; While I agree it is entirely possible that consciousness may simply be a product of chemical processes, the challenge still lies in us offering an accurate explanation of the mind and of consciousness in purely physical terms. From a scientific perspective we are still currently unable to account for many characteristics of the mind; mental events, personal experiences, thoughts, memories, imagination and other properties which are not spatially located but are cognitive more than anything. My skepticism lies in how we fall short of being able to describe most of the diverse mental experiences we have, as well as account for much of the ‘immaterial’ aspects of our mentality (i.e. consciousness).

[Hidden]
Anonymous (3) (@) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

@Bryan; i do not know…


@Derek
; i like your comment…i do know there are 26 and growing super clusters…with in each there are clusters…within them universes…with in them galaxies…with in them 1 to 2 life planets…it works out to about 1/2 million life planets…but; how this all stared is a very good question…and the next question that comes to my mind…how was the first soul created?…and if; by your statement…it was created by consciousness…who’s consciousness…and how did that consciousness get created? (here we are on the same path)…as to proving god exist…just look in the mirror…the image looking back at you…is god…so; if, you believe in yourself then you believe in god :D

[Hidden]
Paul (2) (@4everlyfe) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

@Robert

Derek is not referring to consciousness as a “who” but rather a “what”. Consciousness isn’t a single person, its our ability to synthesize, analyze and interpret information. We as a species created the notion of a soul to title this ability.

The first “soul” that was created/evolved probably wasn’t very complex. It would be the simple urge to reproduce oneself (Archaebacteria). They see nothing in the world other than thriving and reproducing.

As to your statement about the mirror, that isn’t god looking back at you, it just reflected photons =P

[Hidden]
Cole (3) (@colemathis) 10 years, 9 months ago ago

@Mike; you are completely correct, there are a lot of aspects about the human brain and consciousness that modern science does not completely understand or have a good grasp on, yet. As many people place faith in religion I place my faith in science, that through hard-work and determination to find the truth science will find answers to these questions and that these answers will help us understand how we as humans perceive the world around us, which will allow us to probe for ever deeper questions, and that eventually we can come to an understanding with a reality that extends much deepers and broader beyond our own perceptions and other biochemical, physiological, and psychological limitations

[Hidden]
Paige (0) (@splosion) 10 years, 8 months ago ago

@ Martijn “… the universe is earthing and the earth is peopling, but you can’t explain how.” that is a very simple fragment that I thought was pretty great. thanks for that.

[Hidden]
Eric (1,819)M (@blankey) 9 years, 9 months ago ago

Atheists leave these sort of questions unanswered because they simply cannot be answered at this time. It is straight up ridiculous to answer the unanswerable. Atheists are open to ideas, but they need to be backed up. Saying some “thing”, some “god” created this all and we are his people makes no sense and has no facts at all.

The time will come when science can answer these temporary unanswerable questions. To take a stab at it and guess now serves nothing, however, if you use the scientific method, go for it.

[Hidden]
Viewing 24 reply threads
load more