Religions- Expressions of the Same Thing- Find your Expression

 TheSeer (@drallarnnat)7 years, 8 months ago

Some of us ( you know who you are) just have this deep connection to pursuing something “higher.” This deep intuitive knowledge that there is more to existence than atoms. There are those that just feel like it is common sense that our boundaries and sphere on influence cannot end at the tips of our fingers. Those that understand that the physical properties of this universe, space and time, cannot exist as we perceive them, for time SEEMS linear, which implies cause and effect, but there had to have been a cause creating the first cause, and there’s a paradox if there ever was one.

This desire to understand can motivate us for lifetimes. Some of us are fortunate enough to end up reaching that realization we always dreamed of reaching. We call this fundamental understanding enlightenment.

But what is there to understand? How do you reach this understanding when there are so many spiritual paths? First of all, let’s be cliche and make it clear that all paths ultimately lead to the same thing. Second of all, the beauty of enlightenment is its simplicity, its effortlessness, and the focus in the present moment.. ( we are getting off topic, I apologize)

So, enlightenment is the ultimate goal. An understanding. Of what, though? It is the ultimate. The wordless and nameless. It is the way. It is a fundamental “field” of infinite creativity from which everything else arises. Sounds fluffy, doesn’t it? Well that’s because it is. It is the source of all expression. Of rational and artistic. Of love and intellect. Romance and science. It is you, it is me, it is the computer, it is your thoughts, my thoughts, my feelings, your feelings, imagination, the sun, the moon, extra terrestrials. It is all and nothing. However, something so pure, so fundamental, cannot simply be communicated.

This is where the different belief systems come in. Through our intellect, through the very effort of putting something like this into words, we distort it. We impress upon it our own uniqueness. Different spiritual paths is exactly that: Someone’s personal uniqueness impressed upon what they have experienced but cannot do justice to with words or images or sounds. It is too fundamental of an experience. For those of you who have been deeply in love, you may understand. It becomes so difficult to communicate this love. You just don’t know HOW exactly to say it, and when you put words to the feeling, something is lost, and you can feel that you aren’t getting your point across, at least not fully.

Religion, spirituality, is like this. This ultimate source of which we are all apart, sometimes called God, is the goal, and is that “spark” that is spoken of but always elusive. That “life force” you may call it. When people experience something this incredible and pure, it must be interpreted. It must be molded so that it may fit somewhat into the paradigm of that person who experiences this ultimate reality. Some personify this infinite creativity. Some call it an all-pervasive energy, some call it consciousness. They’re all words, they’re all different expressions – made different by the personal imprints the one who experiences this leaves when they attempt to communicate such a pure understanding. It’s all the same thing, with a twist.

So, is there something to offer in all belief systems? Yes, absolutely. Luckily for us all, there are many out there, with many different aspects. One path is bound to resonate with you, to feel compatible with your personality. This just means that that system is closest to how you yourself would interpret the absolute once you recognize it ( as already within and without you, of course). And so this is the path you choose, in hopes of someday experiencing the absolute, which you will then find, was effortlessly attainable because you already had it, and can never lose it ( but you won’t just let yourself see it without first feeling that you’ve earned it. Something so spectacular can’t come without a price. And so you make enough sacrifices until you feel you’ve earned this understanding. And that’s when you realize that simply existing is the only prerequisite, and that you were the absolute all along.)

So, go find that spiritual path that resonates with you, and don’t look down upon other paths for being different – they are all the same thing – fundamentally – with a twist! Happy existing!

January 5, 2014 at 11:14 am
Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 7 years, 8 months ago ago

“This deep intuitive knowledge that there is more to existence than atoms.” [email protected]

Yeah mate. Quarks, neutrinos, photons, sound waves. Good stuff.

“Those that understand” [email protected]

Now hold on just a second. For your information, the clinically insane also think they understand things that others don’t. But they’re really just crazy.
Always keep things in perspective.

You don’t know what you don’t know. A belief is nothing but a belief.

“but there had to have been a cause creating the first cause,” [email protected]

Then THAT would BE the FIRST CAUSE.
So what came before that? And what came before what came before that?
What you’re doing is called circular reasoning, and it’s not a wise thing to do. Might wanna look into that, mate.

“First of all, let’s be cliche and make it clear that all paths ultimately lead to the same thing.” [email protected]

That’s something a lot of people say, but where’s the damn evidence? Huh?
Everything is pointing at the direct opposite. The paths lead in different directions because they’re fundamentally different.

“Someone’s personal uniqueness impressed upon what they have experienced but cannot do justice to with words or images or sounds.” [email protected]

Accepting someone else’s pre-made theories at face value is an expression of uniqueness and experience?
No, it’s the exact opposite of that.

“For those of you who have been deeply in love, you may understand.” [email protected]

This is odd, because you said earlier that this is nothing like atoms and such… yet you compare it to love which is nothing but molecule clusters at work.

“You just don’t know HOW exactly to say it, and when you put words to the feeling, something is lost, and you can feel that you aren’t getting your point across, at least not fully.” [email protected]

So it’s just like imaginary friends that go away when real people are around. Or like the glorious miracles people claim to have performed, when nobody was looking and all the evidence got magically erased.
All those beautiful women that the fat basement virgin told his friends that he fucked.
All those amazing powers people have, which don’t work when anyone’s watching.

Yeah, that lie is really convenient when you want to “explain” the absence of something while claiming that the same really exists.

“This ultimate source of which we are all apart, sometimes called God, is the goal,” [email protected]

If you’re part of something, that is no goal since you cannot reach the position you already occupy. You cannot come closer to anything than being a part of it.

Chasing your own tail, mate.

“One path is bound to resonate with you, to feel compatible with your personality.” [email protected]

Yeah, that’s called a bias. It boils down to an instinctive screening for the most positive or/and easy outcomes. The ego stores this bias for easy access at all times.

“This just means that that system is closest to how you yourself would interpret the absolute once you recognize it” [email protected]

Yeah, the easiest way of inception is to tell people what they want to hear. Then you give it a name and assign a bunch of other “meanings” and directions to it, to “get people on your page.”

This is a basic manipulation, and it is done either for validation (gaining followers/peers, feeling that you’re right about something) or power (getting people to do your bidding “to get to paradise.”)

End notes:

Look, buddy. If you wanna experience the absolute, look no further. You are already surrounded and filled by it, you are made of it and it’s all you’ll ever experience.

Stop chasing your tail like an inbred dog.

Peace and love
//Elion

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TheSeer (168)C (@drallarnnat) 7 years, 8 months ago ago

Interesting perspective, now we shall engage in an enjoyable debate.

“‘This deep intuitive knowledge that there is more to existence than atoms.’[email protected]

‘Yeah mate. Quarks, neutrinos, photons, sound waves. Good stuff.'”

Correct, they are good stuff. I feel here, that possibly I was misunderstood, or possibly you understand what I meant, and are simply nitpicking. Whichever the case, it is my fault for not being more clear.
Atoms, molecules, quarks, all the fundamental particles that are believed to be the basis of the existence of the physical universe. I am making a claim that there is something more fundamental, non-physical.

“You don’t know what you don’t know. A belief is nothing but a belief.” [email protected]
That’s exactly right, a belief is nothing but a belief. This damages my claim in what way? You BELIEVE you are right. You BELIEVE there are other sentient beings on this planet. You BELIEVE there exists a world independent of your consciousness (well actually, I’m not sure if you believe these things, but I hope you get the underlying point) and that underlying point is that our worldview is completely subjective. You call the clinically insane simply crazy and dismiss their reality. To them, you’re the crazy one. Their perception is simply different, and because more people seem to agree with your perception, gives you the authority to dismiss their perception as false? Hmm, sounds like you are clinging to truths that are simply beliefs just as much as you claim I am.

““Someone’s personal uniqueness impressed upon what they have experienced but cannot do justice to with words or images or sounds.” [email protected]

Accepting someone else’s pre-made theories at face value is an expression of uniqueness and experience?
No, it’s the exact opposite of that.” – @manimal

Do not forget the subject of which I am speaking. There is a difference between BELIEVING someone’s theories to be true, and accepting them as truth to them. I never said accepting one’s theories at face value was recommended. I said that there are many theories, many practices, each with different methods of realization. Find one that suits your personality. That’s all…

““For those of you who have been deeply in love, you may understand.” [email protected]

This is odd, because you said earlier that this is nothing like atoms and such… yet you compare it to love which is nothing but molecule clusters at work.” – @manimal

I’m sorry, I don’t see in my post where I claimed such a difference. Actually, based on my post, it is implied that there is a fundamental source of everything. You call it molecule clusters at work. I agree, but the difference is I don’t believe that is the most fundamental aspect that affects our feelings. My reductionist beliefs simply reduce reality to a more fundamental substance than yours does. There are conceptual events that happen on a very different level of reality that are then actualized in the physical universe. All physical events are correlations of a more fundamental event on a non-physical level. The molecules in work that create the feeling of love is the physical correlate of love on a conceptual non-physical level which is actualized depending on the intensity of the emotion or concept.

““but there had to have been a cause creating the first cause,” [email protected]

Then THAT would BE the FIRST CAUSE.
So what came before that? And what came before what came before that?What you’re doing is called circular reasoning, and it’s not a wise thing to do. Might wanna look into that, mate.

I’m afraid you missed the point with this one. No harm done. I was explaining that linear time, as we experience it, goes against the very same reasoning that we use daily. Not a wise thing to do? I don’t see how pointing out the principles of cause and effect and how they relate to our reasoning is unwise? If anything, it seems like a doorway to growth and development of reasoning and understanding.

““One path is bound to resonate with you, to feel compatible with your personality.” [email protected]

Yeah, that’s called a bias. It boils down to an instinctive screening for the most positive or/and easy outcomes. The ego stores this bias for easy access at all times.

The means is virtually irrelevant. The bias of one is different than the bias of another, depending on past experiences etc. So yeah, one is bound to have a preference of one method over another. The recommendation is to use that method- all methods have the same goal in mind, realizing that which is already a part of you.

“This just means that that system is closest to how you yourself would interpret the absolute once you recognize it” [email protected]

Yeah, the easiest way of inception is to tell people what they want to hear. Then you give it a name and assign a bunch of other “meanings” and directions to it, to “get people on your page.'” – @manimal

I’m afraid that by misunderstanding my intentions and making assumptions, you have once again misunderstood the meaning. It’s funny, actually, because you argue against my point that spiritual paths, although different, are simply different expressions of something that is too fundamental to be communicated, calling it a convenient excuse. Yet, by misunderstanding, you have validated the point that I was trying to make – communication through words skews ideas, and one’s own personality, when receiving the information, skews it further and molds it to their own bias, ideas, beliefs, and expectations of reality etc. You call love a simple interaction of molecules because that fits your paradigm, and that’s okay. You call my arguments invalid because they are based off of belief rather than fact, and then later imply that your perception is more valid than my own, when really, they are simply two different perceptions, both based off of beliefs. Granted, yours is more valid to YOU, and you are entitled to that, but to invalidate someone else’s perception for being different is… ignorant, arrogant, narrow-minded?

Also, referring back to your “inception” remark: You’re right, giving something a name DOES give it more meaning. I fail to see the connection. I am not “trying to get people on [my] page.” The whole meaning of my post was that diversity of spiritual path and belief is completely okay…

I’m very confused that you call this a “basic manipulation.” I need no validation for my point of view because any validation another could give me is not true validation – it is simply a validation that my perception of reality and their perception of reality have commonalities. A basic point made in this post is the difference of perception and the fact that multiple perceptions may be different but both valid…

“Look, buddy. If you wanna experience the absolute, look no further. You are already surrounded and filled by it, you are made of it and it’s all you’ll ever experience.” – @manimal

Thank you for agreeing with me. Note that I say “recognize” the absolute and I specifically make the point that this absolute is already within us and around us, but many feel that something put on such a pedestal must be earned through sacrifice of time and effort. So, was the point of that comment to simply agree?

“Stop chasing your tail like an inbred dog.” I’d just like to point out the irony of comparing another’s ideas and actions to that of an inbred dog and saying “peace and love” as an exit statement the very next line. This made me chuckle… High Existence is a productive community, and I thoroughly enjoy debate, and had you presented an argument that had convinced me, I would have humbly agreed. However, such an analogy is disrespectful, implies arrogance, and I must say, subtracts from the credibility of your argument <– apologies if this sounds condescending, it does to me as well, I just know no other way to communicate this point clearly. If you want to make a good argument, your rhetoric must hold on all sides, including your credibility and character which is built by at least presenting yourself as having good ethics.

Thank you, and I look forward to your response.

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TheSeer (168)C (@drallarnnat) 7 years, 8 months ago ago

One more thing,

When people feel their set of beliefs is threatened, they tend to become rigid, condescending, and disrespectful in hopes that they will undermine the other person and their argument, further validating their own beliefs and belief system.

I am not forcing mine on anyone. In my post, I was respectful of all belief systems. You do not have to agree with me, but I just ask for the same respect that we all deserve. I sincerely apologize if my lengthy reply was taken in a rude way. I must admit, I did feel a little defensive because I felt as if my view was being attacked rather than debated. I hope that we can put this slight hostility behind us ( if you even felt any. for all I know, the negativity is just my perception, and you felt none!) and engage in a reasonable debate that can hopefully lead to the growth of both of us!

My post was simply communicating the point that no matter what specific belief system we use to pursue fulfillment, the fact remains that they are all different paths, leading to the same realization. Different interpretations maybe, but same underlying knowledge. Have you done any reading on the beliefs of the hermetic system? What I was getting at is closely related to the teachings of hermeticism that there is one truth that is present somewhere in all religions.

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