I’ve given some thought over the years as to the possibility that (this is just an assumption/hypothetical of Judeo-Christian mythology, I am an atheist) Satan is in fact what humanity should identify as a force for “good” (as relative as good and evil may be) and Yahweh, God, whatever you want to call it, would be an example of evil.
After all, it’s God that demands obedience to at times, completely arbitrary rules, to which the punishment that could follow being stoning or even death.
For example: Deuteronomy 21:18-21
“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.”
The advocation of slavery, misogyny, turning people into pillars of salt, burning entire cities, telling Abraham to murder his son… the list goes on and on.
He does plenty, it seems, for the people who seem to curry his favor (at least temporarily) but he is much more responsibly for directly inflicting death and suffering than that I know of Satan, if someone could bring up some examples of Satan’s hand in killing, or “evil” work, I would like to read up on it.
But, I have yet to here much in the way of Satan’s misdoings, I hear about him leading Adam and Eve “astray” from the garden, but my interpretation is that he introduces disobedience to authority, questioning… and most obviously KNOWLEDGE! to humanity.
Satan asks not for obedience, he does not smite, he does not kill, judge, or send his son to be tortured and crucified.
If I’m correct, the word Satan doesn’t even have any necessarily negative connotation, it just means “one who opposes.”
Enlighten me :)
@cosmicd46, It’s refreshing to know that even the Vatican is starting to acknowledge changing times
Look up “priest says hell is an invention of the church” it’s about 3 minutes and is pretty nice to hear lol. He’s wearing a black dress coat with red undershirt
@unstoppableobject, I would like to contribute some thoughts I want to throw out there if that’s alright. Not looking for an argument or anything, just a good conversation. :)
The reason that the bible and judeo-christianity seems arbitrary in content is because it is. God didn’t write the bible, people did. It’s like a game of spiritual telephone – God says one thing, you say what you think your best idea of what he said to the rest of humanity. When you make that translation, would you subconsciously slip things in? So what the bible is (at least to me) is the human translation of ideas from God. So to me, at least, the bible is an embodiment of human error and how we fall short, like satan. This can be seen in the death count graph as well – God did not tell people to slay others, but rather people decided to slay in his name. This is another example of how our imperfections destort the Goodness that is given to us. That’s where “satan” comes in, or as I like to think of it, the absence of God. I think the idea of satan is just that, not an actual embodiment, but that’s just my opinion. Since we’re corrupted with sin from the beginning, his actions are our own selfish and ego driven actions as well. But when we’re free from ego, we’re free from our animosity, our instinct, and being primal, that’s when we make the distinction that we are separate from the animal.
Personally, I think the only parts of the bible worth reading with that much coherency are the gospels. They are essentially letters from the apostles from various locations – mostly Jail, for being monotheistic in the time and age. Anyway, the reason I think this is because in these letters and scriptures, they actually quote things that Jesus said, which is (in my opinion, many won’t agree) the only thing we should be looking at if we wish to have the word of God, because it’s one of the only parts that actually contains it. Yes, there’s lots of storylines we can learn from in the bible, but these teachings are what we should be pondering in our minds.
From the video: “The church doesn’t like the people to grow up because you can’t control grown ups. That’s why we talk about being born again. When you’re born again, you’re still a child.”
Amazing! It confirms my suspicions.
“I think the idea of satan is just that, not an actual embodiment”
The term Satan comes from the Hebrew for opposition, obstruction or adversary. It has been argued that in the original text Satan and God are not physical figures but rather abstract entities that represent evil and good, respectively. So, they’re metaphors.
Interestingly, in 2 Samuel 24:1 it states: ‘The Lord said to [David], “Go and count the people of Israel.”‘ Then later in the Bible, in 1 Chronicles 21:11 (which is a retelling of the events in the Book of Samuel but from a different perspective), it states: ‘Satan made David decide to take a census [of Israel].’ So God was either filled with the characteristics of Satan or He ordered The Satan to do the above.
I agree with your last paragraph completely. Although I haven’t read the book you mentioned.
I have often wondered the same or at least a similar thing. Personally, I’m not sure what I believe. I guess I would say, the unknowing or unsure. I hope there is something good, there’s got to be something otherwise why are we here?
I like this quote, pretty much sums it up i guess…
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” -Marcus Aurelius
I know exactly where you’re coming from. I think I get the point now though. I saw it how you see it, but now I see the dangers of knowledge. I think that story has been twisted. I think the original concept is about knowledge vs. …i cant find the right word. Lets call it love I guess. It’s now designed to direct one towards pursuit of knowledge, because fuck authority telling us what to do. It creates that influence. I think the original concept of obey god was more acceptance of all as is and love unconditionally, which it is still like that really, but the creation of religion has distorted into something it isn’t.
Please watch these videos. I think they’re quiet relevant to this topic: