Subtle Violence

Mike Wuest (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 3 months ago

Anyone notice how subtle the violence is in our society nowadays? Like it’s been perfected. Whereas before you had to exterminate or enslave people physically, nowadays you can just do that on a psychological level in such a subtle way that most people don’t even notice it’s happening?

I’ll give you an example. We go to school from a very young age. We’re expected to sit still, pay attention, and memorize a bunch of meaningless facts. If you rebel against this system of control by not paying attention to what you’re supposed to, you get labeled as having a problem and get put on medication. If you rebel against this system by not being able to fully participate in this system, you get labeled as being depressed and are put on medication. Only the ones who buy into it and don’t question are rewarded. You get rewarded for having a weak mind, basically.

That is violence, and tons of other examples could be made. No matter how well-intentioned the people are who are supporting these things, it’s a subtler way to break people into homogenized behavior and thought than using physical chains and extermination.

What do you think?

October 11, 2013 at 6:38 am
Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

Should have labeled this “Subtle Violence.”

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Filip (2,818)M (@filipek) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@mikeyw829, Will edit.

I agree, so much violence among our contacts. Indeed, it has become a lot more subtle than before. More verbal violence as well, which maybe is even more harmful than physical violence at times. Bullying in schools for example. In Japan there is an alarmingly high rate of suicides among (high) school teenagers.
Problem is that this kind of violence is a lot more difficult to measure. I call you a jerk, you get offended, depressed and sad. How to measure this? I punch you in the face, you break your nose. Easily measurable and causalities are better seen.

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Josh (213) (@reinvented2012) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@mikeyw829, the problem is most people think this is good, it’s normal. Why go against the status quo. Well soon people will see what’s wrong with our society and hopefully that ignites a fire deep within all the thinkers, doers and leaders. And not the ones currently in power but those that don’t seek power but those that seek peace and love for us all. Those are the leaders we need, spreading the knowledge and ideas around that will catapult us into a state of permanent bliss. One where we don’t have to work at monotonous jobs all day, a world where we don’t have to fear our government but respect them for the necessities and luxuries they provide us with.


@filipek
, I also agree verbal violence is way more prevalent today than any other form of violence, at least on a personal level. Globally governments are inflicting physical pain.

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Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@filipek, I agree. It’s as if we live in more of a mental reality nowadays, rather than a physical one like in previous times. As @reinvented2012, said, people think this is a good thing, because what they don’t realize is that all that’s happened is that the violence has transferred from the physical domain into the psychological. It’s not actually any better, it just appears that way because people don’t pick up on subtlelties. That’s when things get really dangerous, because the less obvious things are, the more potential you have to control people.

I would also say that globally, at least in America and much of the western world, our government is inflicting as much violence on us as they are inflicting on Middle Eastern states, just in a different way. It’s much less obvious.

The only reason no one rebels in America is because we’re conditioned to think that material acquisition, comfort, and safety is what matters more than anything. If people realized these things don’t mean shit, they’d see just how oppressed we really are.

You could make the argument that people in 3rd world countries have it better than us if you look underneath the service. A happiness based on entertainment, chemical stimulation, and comfort is not happiness at all.. all that is is numbness. People enjoy their psychological prisons though.

If I had to pick between physical torture in “underdeveloped” (aka under-conditioned) nations, and psychological torture like we have here in America and the “developed” world, I’m really not sure which one is better. What’s the point in being “alive” if you no longer feel aliveness? You might as well be physically dead. I think most people would say psychological torture is better, because you can just be made to feel numb and “happy” if your mind isn’t strong, and it appears better.

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who (557) (@season) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@mikeyw829, Agree 100% with a lot more cases day to day. I fight it by babbling until the person fucks off, cuz most people do it automatically as part of their shit personality.

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Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@season, Yeah I know. It pains me everytime people ask me how I’m doing, and I just respond “Doing well, you” or something. And we’re both just dead behind the eyes with smiles on our faces. Except most people don’t notice the deadness. They think it’s normal. When I don’t do that I feel so much better, but usually acting real repulses people. It’s sad.

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fucksake (26) (@fucksake) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@mikeyw829, we are all part of this system that has taken many thousands of years to get to where it is now… and maybe thats just how it is.. systems grow because of individuals but also because of the majority . Yes there are people up there pulling the strings … but maybe if they didnt, we wouldnt have videogames, films, medicine, all the other bullshit…. we wouldtn have this website or the internet… .

i dont see an alternative.. i dont believe in good or evil .. survival is only possible because the cunning and manipulative people up there formed the biggest gang in the world ; the police and government

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fucksake (26) (@fucksake) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@mikeyw829, as a girl once told me “depression isnt attractive” you can think of the big picture and obsess over it; and you can come to terms with everything being pointless. enjoy yourself every second. do not fear death. have some things to work on and achieve because you want to. even if they go against everyone else .

Depression is easy. its easy to be negative and think shitty things. just entertain yourself and dont take this too seriously. be greateful. there are blacks in africa somewhere starving to death, they have never heard music or had a chance to jerk off to porn . i am very depresseed at times and think fuck this shit… but then i remember i can just say haha and go to xhamster , smoke a fat blunt and jerk off for 2 hours…. then i can watch a film… for free.. on super fast internet connection which was built by clever people

yes life is not all fun , a lot of it is boring , and a tedious grind. a lot of being fake. but you cant have good without “bad” and even then you can change that bad into good. just relax, its all pointless anyway ;)

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fucksake (26) (@fucksake) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@mikeyw829, why do you feel numb? because of the way you percieve the world to be shitty ? everyone is being manipulated ? Well be proud of yourself that you can recognise this ! many will NEVER even fathom this !

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Ben (62) (@Mallorn) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

to say that people in 3rd world countries “have it better” than vain, deluded people who are wealthier is a little absurd. its the latter’s choice to do so. Living in America, I’ve found the majority of people are like that, but that doesn’t mean an individual has to adopt their mentality…

Indeed people don’t notice they’re being indoctrinated; that’s why it works. Psychological enslavement as you put it, which is really just distorting how a person views the world, exists on multiple levels. To me the combination of social forces both outside the family and inside it are what make it so effective. it’s more of conditioning the individual to go along with the majority with physical force as the ultimate punishment than real violence. such is living in most governments! However, adults have this crazy thing called the ability to think, and are able to think themselves out of these prisons if they just let go of their ego. But then comes dissonance and they go back to square one.

School is just as you said and ridiculous for making people into clones. Memorize the same information and spit it back in the same ways, screw individuality.

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Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@fucksake, I appreciate the advice man and you trying to help. But I’m not looking for advice. And I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. Because I’m not depressed, and I’m not numb either. I used to be.

Yeah that’s how it is now. Although I never said anyting about anyone pulling the strings. It’s no one’s fault how things are. Even if people are trying to pull strings, they themselves are getting their strings pulled. No one is at the healm of this, because “this” system is a construct of the mind. The mind is in control. We’ve confused who we are with our minds. Im not blaming anyone. It isn’t anyone’s fault. Its a natural progression. That’s part of your misunderstanding.

Of course there’s an alernative. The system we live in isn’t sustainable indefinitely. It was bound to fail from it’s start, which as you said, was thousands of years ago. Hence all the stories of apocalypse coming from so long ago and from many different cultures. People just making predictions based on the inevitable.

Also, I don’t have a negative view of the world. It’s positive. I see beauty and wonder on a consistent basis. If someone punched you in the face, and somehow you didn’t realize it, and I pointed it out to you, that isn’t me being negative. I’m stating a fact. The real negativity, and the SUBTLE VIOLENCE I’m talking about in the original post, would be to deny that you got punched in the face at all, and to just “distract” yourself from what really happened, as you say to do. Facts are different than opinions. What’s really negative is your idea that “nothing matters,” so I just shouldn’t care because “everything is pointless”. Those are beliefs, learn to differentiate beliefs from facts. Look into that, and you’ll see how negative that is.

Life is only a boring, tedious grind if you’re controlled by circumstance and the situation you’ve been given. I appreciate your comments, but I think you misunderstood the point I’m making.

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Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@mallorn, “Living in America, I’ve found the majority of people are like that, but that doesn’t mean an individual has to adopt their mentality…”

you’re 100% right. The problem is though, most people do. And in 3rd world countries, people are more real, more connected with reallity and with each other. It’s up to you if comfort, security, and material posessions are better than true connection and a real personality. Obviously, if I had to pick living in a third world country or living in America, all else being equal (including the sovereignty of my mind), I’d pick living in America. That’t why you won’t see me moving to a third world country anytime soon. But as you said, you don’t HAVE to be controlled by psychological manipulation, which is what makes it better than physical constraint. Problem is, it’s just harder to spot.

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Charlotte (51) (@11mothernature) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

I agree. How there are 6 vacant houses or so for every homeless person, that is violence.

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Ben (62) (@Mallorn) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

for reals @11mothernature, the more you think about it the more you realize how absurd it is. To tell a person they have to sleep outside because a far away bank “owns” the property…………………………………………………………………………………………….and that house is just going to sit there….

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Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@11mothernature, @mallorn, I see where you’re coming from. But by merely handing out things to people, you’re providing symptom relief only. If someone has third degree burns all over their body, and you give them morphine, that’s only symptom relief, it’s not a cure. And if all you do is provide morphine, the person becomes dependent on it in the absence of a real solution.

Providing handouts to the poor, while the intentions are sound, is actually part of this subtle violence that I speak of. Because since you are not accounting for an actual solution to the poverty, people are taught to just become dependent on hand outs. They learn they don’t have to work for what they need, it’s just given to them. Nature doesn’t work that way. Nothing is just given to you in nature, you have to give in order to receive, you can’t just receive. And when people become dependent in this way, they are easily controlled. This is actually a tactic people use for manipulation and control.

This stuff looks good on the surface, but when you look deeper you see it’s not what it looks like at all. Hence why I call it subtle violence.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@fucksake, “i remember i can just say haha and go to xhamster , smoke a fat blunt and jerk off for 2 hours”

eh…you sure you’re doing yourself a favor there?

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

All I have to say about 3rd world vs America is, yes, things alone will not make you happy if you don’t like who you are. But try not having things like they do in the 3rd world, ESPECIALLY if you grew up with things in the 1st world….I can almost guarantee your rage/frustration will immediately go from 0 to 10.

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Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@theskafish, yeah it’s funny because that’s exactly what I’m talking about is subtly violent, and he’s saying it’s a good thing. People think numbing themselves and living in a constant distraction is a good thing. All that is is creating an artificial reality for yourself. If you’re depressed and you just jerk off to porn and smoke a blunt to dull the feeling, you’re not actually solving the problem, you’re just putting it off temporarily.

And you’re missing the point about what I said about 3rd world countries. Go to a third world country and see how important things are really to a lot of people. Why are many people in third world countries happier than people in America, who have all this “abundance?” Where did I ever say things are bad? If I could choose between having things and having nothing, I’d choose to have things. Look what I said in response to Ben. And yeah if you grow up with tons of stuff, and then it all gets taken away, of course you’d be mad. Because you grow up thinking that the stuff is what matters and defines you, instead of it just being a tool.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@mikeyw829, most definitely. Personally, I have had miserable experiences with both porn and weed so I feel I can speak on the negative consequences of both. Feeling like garbage, thinking these things will help, but only feeling even worse afterwards and the vicious cycle repeats. I mean, it’s a free country, people can do whatever they want. But I would not recommend either to anyone, and when either is presented as a solution I feel I must call it out. Lots of people defend that crap to the death, but you hit the nail on the head: “If you’re depressed and you just jerk off to porn and smoke a blunt to dull the feeling, you’re not actually solving the problem, you’re just putting it off temporarily.” The problem will just keep coming up again and again until you run out of time.

I never said that YOU said 3rd world countries were better though. I just said that in general, the 3rd world experience is not a desirable one.

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Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@theskafish, “it’s a free country, people can do whatever they want.”

So they say, at least. In my opinion, that’s just a fantasy for most people. And that’s where the subtlety comes in. It looks free, it feels free, but is it? Depends on the individual. Most individuals, the vast majority, aren’t free at all even though they think they are. Our constitution is free, our laws are free, but what is actual freedom? That’s the big trick that’s being played. And all these things I’ve talked about above are ways that psychological freedom is taken away, so it looks on the surface that people are deciding for themsleves, but they really aren’t. It’s brilliant. Because freedom is an internal thing, having sovereignty over your mind. You can be free and be in prison or live in North Korea.

And yeah I agree with what you say about the distractions. Even when you use the distractions, the pain is still there under the surface. It’s scary because in the near future, I feel that people will be able to live in literal artificial realities where they can just be permanently disconnected from pain.

But you’re saying that 3rd world countries are not desirable, but that is coming from a 1st world mindset. There is no doubting that people in 3rd world countries are happier. You only get unhappy when you start depending on stuff for your happiness. They’ve never been exposed to that. And that’s because on most levels, they are more prosperous than us. They have real connections to people, are close with families and with nature and their food. Hardly anything is commoditized. They aren’t divorced from real life. I’m not saying revert back to the 3rd world or anything though

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Anonymous (328) (@) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@mikeyw829, Yes. People get used to the disposable lifestyle. Fast, convenient and if something is faulty, cuss at it, throw it out then buy a new one. Without realizing this also spreads to a persons feelings, thoughts, relationships and personality.

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Ben (62) (@Mallorn) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

absurdly naive that is. Certainly there are no “hand outs” in nature, there’s no consciousness in nature to be benevolent. There would similarly be no hand outs in society if there didn’t exist conscious humans who thought it nice to give someone a helping hand…

If you have the morphine, it’s your choice to give it to the burn victim or not. Just like it’s the bank’s choice to foreclose, etc. Then, because humans have this crazy thing called the ability to think, the individual can realize “oh, I should probably get that surgery so I won’t need any more morphine, so I’m not dependent on it.” Or maybe the person will become addicted and steal your money. Such is life. People have free will. You can either do favors for people and not expect anything in return, or do nothing and expect nothing.

Analogizing the way we condition children in public school to giving free food to hungry humans… no

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DaFunks (366)M (@Dafunks) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

It’s not new. Look into Roman schools.

I think it’s just more psychological now. It also goes deeper.

I think it’s quite dangerous. Were holding in our inbuilt anger and nature. When it comes out OT has very bad effects on us. I think it’s worse for men who are now told that our own nature is bad.

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Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@mallorn, Whatever man. You’re only looking at skin deep “solutions” to these issues. Covering up the symptoms, rather than getting to the core of the issue. When you just cover up the symptoms, most people see no incentive to find real solutions, because they mistake the cover up for an actual fix. That’s how it works. That’s why we’re in this mess in the first place. Giving people free housing sounds nice and all, but it never teaches them to earn stuff on their own, and they become dependent like an addict.

and the thing is, you say people have free will…. Well, if you just give people stuff for nothing, they lose their free will most of the time. If you want to control a group of people, the best way to do it is to give them free stuff. Subtle violence disguised as social good. And whether the intention is to help or not, it doesn’t matter. Plenty of people who think they’re helping actually are just making things worse.

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Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 3 months ago ago

@dafunks, Yeah it’s been in the case for a long time.. just amplified now to an extreme degree. Like what you said about people learning their own nature is bad, that comes from biblical times.

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