Subtle Violence

Mike Wuest (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 7 months ago

Anyone notice how subtle the violence is in our society nowadays? Like it’s been perfected. Whereas before you had to exterminate or enslave people physically, nowadays you can just do that on a psychological level in such a subtle way that most people don’t even notice it’s happening?

I’ll give you an example. We go to school from a very young age. We’re expected to sit still, pay attention, and memorize a bunch of meaningless facts. If you rebel against this system of control by not paying attention to what you’re supposed to, you get labeled as having a problem and get put on medication. If you rebel against this system by not being able to fully participate in this system, you get labeled as being depressed and are put on medication. Only the ones who buy into it and don’t question are rewarded. You get rewarded for having a weak mind, basically.

That is violence, and tons of other examples could be made. No matter how well-intentioned the people are who are supporting these things, it’s a subtler way to break people into homogenized behavior and thought than using physical chains and extermination.

What do you think?

October 11, 2013 at 6:38 am
Ben (62) (@Mallorn) 8 years, 7 months ago ago

here is the problem in understanding :”Giving people free housing sounds nice and all, but it never teaches them to earn stuff on their own, and they become dependent like an addict.”

I’m not providing solutions for anything, i’m illustrating a truth. as i said you can either give something to someone or not and walk away…to not give a vital resource to someone because of the chance that that person won’t act intelligently is as foolish as not giving them this intelligence. as a simple analogy, a painkiller won’t save you from a snakebite but it’ll help you survive until you get the antidote. surely you can deny the pain killer just like a homeless person can deny free food. seriously though, welcome to the real world.

You’re bi****ing about homeless people becoming addicted to generosity… think about the world we live in and get some damn perspective. surely it matters more that they survive the night than that their ego stays in tact. Which it likely will if they’re so not used to such things. so they can survive inside the house, assuming the diseases they’ve accumulated WHILE BEING HOMELESS won’t kill them, and then the next day reflect on how they’ve been given something with nothing expected in return, and give back out of their own volition. Not because some moron expects them to.

someone doesn’t lose their free will if they come to expect something. they’ll just have to think to realize that they’re expecting it and whatever implications follow. sure, people can be stupid, and often are. But it doesn’t stop there. Ideally a person is educated while receiving some resource that is being given to them out of generosity, and with certain human faculties like empathy they can come to be grateful and maybe give some in return.

Of course a profit-seeking company doesn’t do this. they give the free stuff and don’t tell you there are hidden fees and so on. welcome to earth where people can be d***s. sometimes they don’t give you anything without expecting something in return. maybe they don’t realize they were given life with no payment expected.

Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 7 months ago ago

@mallorn, Make sure to @mention so I know you responded.

Ok you raise some good points. But what I’m talking about is giving homeless people housing is merely palliative. It’s not solving the problem of poverty, just treating the symptoms of it. There is nothing wrong with this, in and of itself. The problem that I am trying to point out is that people mistake things like this with an actual solution. And that’s where it gets dangerous.

I’m not bitching about anything (you can say the word by the way, its ok), I’m just trying to illustrate how these solutions are no more of solutions than giving morphine to a burn victim and calling it a day. My example is just much more obvious (hence the key word in the title: subtle). This stuff isn’t obvious, that’s why it’s so hard to spot. It goes along with a specific mindset. Western medicine, for example, only treats symptoms, and not the root cause. Its not just medicine, it’s a whole mindset that permeates our culture.

Doctors, for example, WANT to help people, I admit their intentions are good, but all they can do is cover up the symptoms. If someone has a heart attack, they can go in and fix the valves, but they can’t fix the underlying reasons that caused it in the first place. And if people who have heart attacks just get the valves fixed everytime, they never learn to stop doing all the things that caused them to get the heart attack in the first place. That’s how it makes people dependent, lazy, and weak minded. They never learn that they need to eat right, think right, and live in a way that is congruent with nature. Even though the doctor’s intentions are good, the methods still make people dependent on the medical system to fix (aka temporarily evade) their issues, and the greater the technology, the easier it is to do this and the more dependent people become. Same goes for the homeless situation.

And that has everything to do with free will. A system whose goal/outcome, no matter how unintended it is and no matter how good the intentions are of most people, is to make people dependent does take away their free will. When your solution is merely a cover up, as are all of our solutions, the underlying cause remains unresolved. Instead of relying on yourself, you never learn from your mistakes because they’re constantly being covered up.

As for you snakebite example, the painkiller doesn’t help you survive, it just takes the pain away. And in this case, yeah it would help, because in this case its obvious that something more needs to be done than just administering a painkiler. But in other cases, such as with psychological pain, people mistake the painkiller/symptom reliever with an actual cure, and that’s where they stop.

Look around you. You say I need to get in the real world? Look at how addicted almost every human being in our country is, to some physical or psychological thing. It’s no coincidence.

Ben (62) (@Mallorn) 8 years, 7 months ago ago

Indeed people often focus on fixing symptoms rather than underlying problems…and lots of americans behave foolishly. so there’s this whole range of problems in our society and many can be analogized to palliative care. Many of these problems are fundamentally different and this needs to be considered if they’re ever going to be solved.

For instance, someone taking an anti-anxiety pill rather than reflecting and introspecting is a very different problem than the way kids are conditioned in our schools. And both are different from poverty. While they can be analogized, this doesn’t do anything to actually solve the problems. But it does show a lack of genuine understanding of key cross-discipline issues in our culture. Dumb amurikans

Maybe you’re trying to get at the result of misunderstanding all situations like this, on the individual level. The addict who doesn’t understand his addiction and is filling out “What’s your shoe personality?” quizzes online. This brings advertising to attention, which is responsible for a lot of what you’re talking about. Someone believes xanax will cure their depression because the commercial tells them so. immoral without a doubt, slowly dumbing people down and they have no idea. that’s capitalism!

fortunately we have the ability to think and get out of traps like that…unfortunately not everyone is able to just turn their thinking cap on. how to get people to think for themselves…

Verona (5) (@verona) 8 years, 7 months ago ago

So, I’m not gonna have kids anytime soon, but I’m always concerned about parenting. I guess I think about it because I babysit frequently, and when I do that I’m basically following the parent’s rules and I become the enforcer of that. But when I think about having my own kids, I don’t know how I’m gonna teach them what’s “right” and “wrong” because of my philosophy. I don’t want to feel like I’m brainwashing my kids but I also want to teach them in a way that I think models a good person. But that’s my idea and when my kids grow up it might not be their idea of a good person. When I was growing up my mom would say bad things about politicians and celebrities who had different values than she did. Now that I’m an adult, I can understand why she did that and why she had those feelings, but I don’t think it’s right to speak so negatively about a person you don’t know based on one thing you know about them. But I also feel like I need to teach my kids that it’s bad to hurt people and say bad things about others and do bad things, but to do that I feel like I need to make an example of someone, which is something that a lot of parents do. I fear the day that my daughter asks me if she’s pretty. Because I want to tell her that it doesn’t matter if she’s beautiful, and that she shouldn’t feel pressured to be pretty or anything else. But if you say that to a child, she wouldn’t understand, and she would think she was ugly. She wouldn’t take away that it doesn’t matter if she is ugly, or if one person thinks she’s ugly. And I want to teach her to be proud of who she is and not to let anyone tell her that she isn’t good enough (beautiful enough, smart enough, fast enough, anything enough). But I also want her to know that she is not the best at everything and that she is not invincible. And I want to teach my children healthy eating habits, but I don’t want to make them obsessed with food and diets. I want to teach my children to have a voice and to stand up for themselves, but I need to have control of them to some extent. If they stand up for themselves too much then they could rebel from me, and they just won’t listen to me. And that’s what I’m really getting at, it just took me all of this other stuff to realize it. A parent needs to be able to teach their kids without making them rebel. Some parents will simply teach that other people are “bad” and in order to be considered “good” the kids have to be just like their parents. Which, as it’s defined here, is violence. I don’t want to be an apathetic, but I want my kids to be independent. I don’t want my kids to rebel, but I want to teach them that there is corruption and that they should stand up against it. And no matter how I think to do this, I can’t figure out a way to make my kids into fair, thoughtful, independent, productive adults, but I can’t find a way that that is possible without brainwashing them and essentially forcing them to think the way that I do. This turned into my own mind thought, and it didn’t contribute much. If anyone actually read this, please let me know if you can relate or not.

Mike D (14) (@NotTallButHigh) 8 years, 7 months ago ago

People like it when someone always seems to agree with them.. People dont like to have our opinions contested against. This goes for people of authority as well of course.. So the people of authority will reward whomever makes their job easier.

Josh (213) (@reinvented2012) 8 years, 7 months ago ago

@mikeyw829, spot on with what I believe man. I have wondered what it would be like to have lived somewhere less advanced.

I’m sure overall an awakes individual that doesn’t succumb to the pressures of modern society has it better than someone in say the slums of India. However here it’s harder to know your being oppressed by the powers than there. They can see their troubles, we can’t necessarily see ours since as you said it’s more psychological not physical.

Mike Wuest (510) (@mikeyw829) 8 years, 7 months ago ago

@mallorn, Yep what I think this boils down to is that the final frontier of freedom, the most important one, is not anything external. It’s an internal thing. I think America, while being externally “free,” is actually starting to become one of the least free places in the world, because people are losing their internal sovereignty without even realizing it. The external stuff is only a facade.

And @verona, I like the parent-child analogy, because you can definitely relate it to a societal level too. Societies dictate how parents raise children. But the way parents raise children can also direct societies too.

, Yeah it’s almost like other parts of the world are going through what America went through 50-200 years ago. America I think is at the forefront of all of this, and therefore at the forefront of decay as well.

The thing is, it’s harder to see here, but easier to combat. Because on one hand, we do have external freedom (for now…), but without internal sovereignty none of that really matters all that much. And as the battle turns from a physical battle for freedom to a psychological one, it does get harder to see, but at the same time the individual has much more power to confront what is occurring if he can start to see what’s going on.

Once you can control the way a people thinks and get them to enjoy servitude, you can go back and take away physical freedoms without any dissent. It’s like traumatizing someone into compliance by beating them into submission without having to use any physical force. No wonder there are so many school shootings in America. So much suppressed rage.

Anonymous (17) (@) 7 years, 7 months ago ago

“To live outside the law, you must be honest.”—Bob Dylan

I think it’s the only reason to be an artist.

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