The Duality of Nature

 Anonymous (@)9 years, 1 month ago

This subject to me, is the end-all of philosophy. All philosophy basically gets trampled in the face of duality.

What is duality? Well if you ask different people you’ll get different results. And depending on the time of the day, I’ll give you different responses as well.

To me, Duality is two main things;
The physical universe, with its laws and logic, in conjunction with the dual; the spiritual, the consciousness, the feelings of existence.

It also particularly plays an important role in consciousness itself. Duality here could be substituted with another word, but in this case it pertains to the subjective nature of observation and perception. On any certain day you can wake up, and feel absolutely amazing, and the world WILL BE absolutely amazing. Under the same circumstances, you could wake up and feel absolutely dreadful, and the world WILL BE absolutely dreadful.

These two concepts; the split between objective reality, and subjective consciousness ultimately explain to me that no matter what your beliefs are, you cannot overcome physical reality, and no matter how much you study physical reality, you will never “deduce” spirituality / consciousness.

This is the duality of nature, and since the two are like oil & water, any absolute truth you find in one, cannot, ever, be applied with absolute certainty to the other.

Causing a personality split? No… but maybe:
http://rutube.ru/tracks/4141115.html

May 1, 2012 at 7:24 am
Anonymous (2,833) (@) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@tine7, yes..

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Gosho (50) (@gosho) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

In nature, there is no duality. There is harmony instead.

Duality is just a way of perception, and I’d say it’s limited. Some people will always see black and white, while others will see that those are just abstractions which try to generalize the way someone sees reality.

You say physical reality and consciousness are the two sides of duality – can you not see the consciousness in reality? Or the reality/realities your are constantly creating, for example in your dreams?

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

I have trouble accepting duality, as I do not believe in black and white, or absolutes. I believe that “opposites” or dualities, are more often than not, actually continuums, or in some cases, so inexorably intertwined that to split them in half is absurd.

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@tangledupinplaid21, I have to disagree. There is a very hard line between spirituality and objective reality, and it takes place somewhere in the brain.

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

Call me a solipsist but I, so far(always open to change my mind), haven’t been able to reconcile the thought of any “objective reality”. What proof do we have of ANYTHING that exists outside of our own perception? Certain laws agreed upon by a bunch of guys in white coats, that they observed with their own perception?

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@tangledupinplaid21, Let me know when you can fly away, and I’ll defect.

The whole point of this thread is just that:

You will never be able to fly around, no matter how much you believe it. If some monk proves me wrong, I’ll defect!

You will never be able to have laser eyes.

These are interactions of you consciousness (spirituality / subjective-self) trying to cross over into objective reality.

F=MA will never change (unless you go into relativistic speeds). No matter how happy or sad you are, gravity will always be there. No matter how much you put your mind to it, you cannot create energy from nothing.

There IS an objective reality.

There IS a subjective “self” (consciousness / spirituality).

They share a elegant relationship through the mind and brain, but neither can cross that threshold.

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

What constitutes an objective truth? A bunch of people agreeing on it? Official written documents? Tests that prove the truth right? Because those truths are often disproved later on. NOTHING IS OBJECTIVE.

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

Planes bro.

Semantics yes but it’s true.

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Anonymous (2,654) (@) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

I disagree. As much as I believe in the existence of all points of view, I see everything as objective. Where unity also plays a big part, where duality doesn’t exist at all.

You might as well start thinking about trinity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondualism

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@tangledupinplaid21, … I’m sorry ellie, but you will never get around the fact of gravity. You will never create energy from nothing. You will never side-step F=MA, you will never destroy energy. These are objective truths. No matter how subjective you try to make them, they are still rock solid. As long as you live in this universe, there are rules your body must abide by.

@beyond, if it is nondualism, then Mitchell Heismann is in perfect standing and there is absolutely no reason not to kill one’s self.

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@ijesuschrist, You’re making absolutist claims based on your own limited understanding and current place in time. How many people do you think thought it would “never happen” that people would live past 35 years old? That synthetic working legs could be built and used? In the fucking car? THE INTERNET?!!!!

ob·jec·tive
Adjective:
(of a person or their judgment) Not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

Give me an example of something that we can prove has not been influenced by personal feelings or opinions. This word literally disproves itself.

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Anonymous (2,654) (@) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@ijesuschrist, Yes. It doesn’t surprise me, though. Not to mention it doesn’t shock me at all.

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@ijesuschrist, considering the fact that we have no fucking clue what is holding together about 90% of the universe, you might want to be a little more humble with your absolutist statements.

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@tangledupinplaid21, ellie that isn’t the point.

The point is there are rules your body must abide by.

Physics is not just going to DISAPPEAR some day.

Give me an example of something that we can prove has not been influenced by personal feelings or opinions.

Gravity.

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

Physics is not going to disappear, but it is going to constantly evolve and be revised just like everything else. So how can it really be objective?

How did we discover gravity? The fact that we have a WORD for it means it has been influenced by personal observation and thus opinion! Labels are opinions! And the fact that, like I just said, about 90% of the universe is a mystery to us, means that there’s still a gigantic piece of the puzzle missing, that, being discovered would most likely re-define our understanding of everything, ESPECIALLY GRAVITY. So how can you call this objective?

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West (78) (@west) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@ijesuschrist, I don’t think ellie is trying to say that the laws of physics aren’t real, I think the point she is trying to make is that we don’t understand them well enough to make conclusions as to which laws confine our existence. Maybe one day we’ll realize that energy is created and destroyed in a way we can’t understand now. Maybe that will open a whole new understanding of “physics.”

But, to me, dualism is the defining law of the universe. Is/isn’t real/imaginary true/false mass/void ying/yang they are all the same thing to me. We just create different words to represent the different aspects of the duality that we can’t fully understand.

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Gosho (50) (@gosho) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@ijesuschrist, you are making claims and statements which contradict with some of the main ideas of this website. What you say is “objective truth” is just something you read somewhere. Some guy said gravity is the ultimate force, made up some formulas, and that is your objective reality? Take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW6pVFOpE6Q

This video makes me wonder, what other “objectively true laws” people have defined, which can be proven wrong?

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@tangledupinplaid21, because it never actually changed, we just didn’t understand it?

Its like seeing the top of a building, you study what you can see, and slowly you realize the structure beneath. The structure doesn’t change, just because we have different hypotheses…

Gravity never changed. Our perception (the conscious side of duality) has ebbed and flowed, but the solid relationships that it holds have remained constant throughout our existence.

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@gosho, really?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLgmCY1fEE8

anything I’ve said so far has not contradicted any “main” ideas of this website (many, yes, but not “main” ones).

@tine7 exactly.

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Gosho (50) (@gosho) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

You know, denial is the worst addiction…

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@ijesuschrist, but it did change. I will repeat: Our only way of being aware of certain physical laws, is by observation, subjective observation, multiple subjective opinions based on tests, coalescing into an “objective truth”. THIS is where we get our understanding of physical laws. I said give me an example of something that was not influenced by subjective opinion, you said gravity, I find that laughable since gravity is a TERM WE INVENTED WITH OUR OWN SUBJECTIVE BRAINS! Would this law still exist without human observation? Maybe, but I’m guessing you’re an “evidence based” kinda guy, so would we be able to prove it? No we wouldn’t. And by your scientific standards it wouldn’t exist at all.

Nothing exists outside of perception. Do you think it does? PROVE IT!

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@gosho, Man, really?

Why are people so pent up about objectivism. I understand at first, that it is confronting, it says that no matter how much you believe something you aren’t going to change the laws of physics. There is no levitating – where does the energy come from? By levitating you lift your body against gravity, if you were to create energy from nothing, then you have defied all of physics, and all things are subjective – something that isn’t obviously the case or we’d all be flying around. So where does the energy come from?

Just because you WANT something to be true does not mean it is.

I’m very open minded. And if you can PROVE any paranormal phenomenon as true – there is a 1$ million dollar reward out.

http://www.skepdic.com/randi.html

So please, if you honestly think you can do it, gosho, there is an objective, real, prize out there.

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@tangledupinplaid21,

Now you are proving my point. Without perception (subjective dual) there is not way to prove anything (objective dual).

Do you think, before Johnny appleseed came along and said “Hey, why am I stuck to the ground?” gravity just… didn’t exist?

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Gosho (50) (@gosho) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

Actually I no longer see any point in this discussion. People will always stick to their beliefs, that’s why its so immature to argue with religious people.

In your duality, both sides of the argument can find an infinite amount of examples/statements/whatever which will “prove” them correct. In the end, its up to you what you want to believe in. Good luck :)

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 9 years, 1 month ago ago

@gosho, “In your duality, both sides of the argument can find an infinite amount of examples/statements/whatever which will “prove” them correct. In the end, its up to you what you want to believe in.”

If it cannot be proven wrong…?

And here you use dualism; “in the end its up to you what you want to believe in”
an extension of dualism.

You’re all dualists and don’t know it

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