The tool: the Ego.

VladtheGlad (@nappa) 8 years, 9 months ago

To be present, aware, and egoless. A beautiful concept, and can bring great peace.
(If you are not familiar with the concept, i’d recommend looking further into it.
A great novel is “A new earth” by Eckhart Tolle.)

However, it is not the point i wish to discuss in this discussion.
In light of this concept, maybe an ego has its use.

In a modern world like today, maybe an ego we are aware of, in control of, and use in our every day lives to interact with an egotistical, expectation rooted system (such as business, leadership, and other areas where regimented and defined roles are assigned) Is not only necessary, but efficient to interact with the world?

After days, weeks, and even subconsciously months of thinking, and drafting ideas, the idea stands that yes.
Using the Ego as a tool, while being aware of it, can be, and is effective and beneficiary to the user in interacting with the modern world, and creating the world he wishes to create.

From contemplation, 3 different ego’s serve as the foundation.

1) The developing ego – an ego that responds to what the wielder needs to enact(to be) in order to efficiently execute goals.
2) The experience ego – an ego based on past experience, development, difficulties overcome, and future goals, a general character one may use when interacting with new characters in a egotistical scenario, or in a scenario when another is using an the ego.
3) Presence – Not using an ego, separating yourself, leaving it for when it is needed and experiencing (the concept at the beginning of this passage).

The ego can be used to;
– Keep on track with goals,
– Cement values, morals, and ethics to bring up on short notice, without deep thought,
– Remember past, future, and learned experience (what one has been through) to bring up on short notice.
– “Defend” against manipulation, and egotistical approaches found in society today
– The list goes on and on (If you think of any other area’s do bring it up)

Ideas, opinions, thoughts?
Has anyone pondered the idea before?
Anyone consciously using/used the ego?
Benefits/Detriments of the ego?

The interested, the questioning, the thoughtful, the skeptics and everyone else encouraged to comment.

February 25, 2013 at 6:48 pm
Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@nappa,

well, first, how are you defining the ego,

this is the best explanation i have found so far,

http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm,

it was posted by zonetti in one of my ego threads, if you read it, get back to me =)

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VladtheGlad (11) (@nappa) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@tine, The definition i’m using when referring to ego is as follows:
Ego – Words, Objects, thoughts, ideas, beliefs, emotions, literally anything one uses to define themselves or attributes to their idea of themselves.
An Identity. Any Identity one presumes unto themselves.(Self made, or conditioned by society)

Here are thoughts upon reading the post:

Interesting view on Morality, the ego society gives to keep you smooth and operational.

” The society creates an ego because the ego can be controlled and manipulated. The self can never be controlled or manipulated.”
– One of the tools of using an ego, can be to resist manipulation. To be aware, to distance yourself from the ego you create, there by not being rooted, or attached to any impacts society makes on the ego (you created).
Thereby, being greater able to keep your values, goals, ideas, and dreams steady, while the ego is worn by society standards, morals, and etc.

” With the ego you feel, “This is MY darkness.” ”
– Here’s where the idea really separates. This idea is to be aware of the ego. To make one, and to be aware of it always. To leave it when its not needed, and brandish it like a shield or a sword when it could be of use.

” The difference is just like the difference between a real flower and a plastic or paper flower. The ego is a plastic flower – dead. It just looks like a flower, it is not a flower. You cannot really call it a flower. Even linguistically to call it a flower is wrong, because a flower is something which flowers. And this plastic thing is just a thing, not a flowering. It is dead. There is no life in it.”
– :) Thats just beautiful. Beautifully said.

Wonderful, refreshing read.

The best explanation (very thorough and indepth) of the ego, and its intertwinings i have found comes from A New Earth – Eckhart Tolle (you can google A New Earth – Eckhart Tolle pdf and print the literature). I recommend it if your interested on the topic.

To the point thought –
Ego can control you if you are not aware of it. It can take over you, and submerse you in its “darkness”
However; maybe, one can be aware of the ego, and use it to its advantage. See it completely, define it, refine it, update it as needed, and use it as a tool of the conscious mind.

Thoughts?

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VladtheGlad (11) (@nappa) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

Interesting source site by the way, certainly begs further exploration.

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Anonymous (2,654) (@) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@nappa, Really mind-opening. I like the 3 versions of the ego. It seems like people have them all 3 in themselves and feel disturbed when one of them is missing. I miss the second one a lot sometimes, other times it’s blowing out of proportion, bipolar comes to mind. And I guess making great effort to get in touch with that ego I become either too much into it or not at all. Well fuck.

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Anonymous (0) (@) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@nappa, read some Ayn Rand. The Virtue of Selfishness deals with this.

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VladtheGlad (11) (@nappa) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@beyond,
The ego feels like a tool of vast complexity, and one that is extremely fruitful to those who are aware of it, and understand it.
Yet, when not aware, one that reeks havoc, and dysfunction.
Like a chainsaw in the hands of a child.

Think about this, is it something to get in touch with and miss?
Or is it something you create?

If you’re interested on the subject, the link @tine brought up could be a great introduction.
And once again, i’ll recommend A New Earth, for further depth and insight.

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VladtheGlad (11) (@nappa) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@serenaelise26, :) I look forward to the read.
Much Appreciated.

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Anonymous (2,654) (@) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@nappa, I’ll definitely need that. I don’t like that chainsaw in the hands of a child at all.

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VladtheGlad (11) (@nappa) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@beyond, Haha, me neither friend, me neither.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@nappa,

i’m glad you liked, pass it on, it’s very good, this is the second time i’ve shared it and i realize i should probably take another look at it before i answer, my perspective has changed a bit since last reading it,

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@nappa,

i think if you are using your emotions to do good acts, then you are not using your ego, your ego puts a malicious taint on your reality perspective, meaning, you are doing what you are doing for something that is not eternal, a material or social gain, as the ego reflects societies expectations,

its about the reason why. the ego would not jump in and help a stranger if he was getting his ass whooped by a coupla guys, no, this impulse, this strength and determination, comes from your true self, and its fueled by righteousness, right action,

now, i am not saying that using the ego cannot motivate you, for sure, but using a negative with a positive always results in some sorta negative, whether it be a potential outcome or the growing of the ego center inside you,

when we hear about walking the narrow path, i believe the path is discerning what is ego to see what is the true way forward, i have chosen to not use destruction as a way to find fulfillment, i find my motivation in creation, whether it be my mind or a some sort of effort,

and in relation to fights, the ego would be a problem because it would cloud you, i would prefer to fight in a calm state, using my rage in a controlled way, calculating, not become rage incarnate and lose control, this usually always results in a negative, either you go to far and beat the living fuck outta him, or you become overconfident and get your colon handed to you in a Wal-Mart bag,

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@nappa,

When it comes to anger, think only peace, this is how you control it, not by succumbing to it for help, but by observing then overcoming its false sense of strength.

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VladtheGlad (11) (@nappa) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@tine,
Any sense of self will be false. It will be ego.
That is the definition of ego i refer to.

Any sense of Good and Bad, stems from ego.
Good and bad are all objective variables derived from “your” perspective.
When you use your ego to do “good”, you are still using your ego.
In fact, especially when you do “good”, you are using your ego.

Depending on your ego, the ego would jump in and save that stranger, for “I am righteous, i help the defenselessness, I am good” (Interesting note; Few murderers think they are bad, or doing the wrong thing)

When we hear about walking the narrow path, i believe it ties more into the narrow path of vision an unacknowledged ego limits the individual to.

In respect to fighting, any action really, the ego is defiantly detrimental.
It sucks energy away from action, from doing, and from making.
To do everything to the best, one must not waste energy on meaningless toils and distractions.

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VladtheGlad (11) (@nappa) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

Defining ego as any concept of self,
A broader description of the idea is this;

Playing a character (*when needed*) to achieve certain goals, and being aware of this/these character(s).

You separate yourself from the ego, there by not limiting your perspective, thoughts, and reality, leaving yourself present and aware when an ego is not beneficial, or necessary;
While, at the same time referring back to a pre-defined ego character whenever confronted with an egotistic situation, or when needed to further pursue your goals.

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AntLive (14) (@onlyicontrolme) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

I’ve been putting all thoughts and emotions into two broad categories for a while now. The two categories are love and hate. I find that “ego” helps me get over the fear based thoughts and emotions because I start thinking I’m not scared, fuck that, i got this etc…

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Terence Stone (48)C (@inception360) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@nappa, I liked your break down of the ego into three entities. Very intriguing. And could be very useful for some. However, at the end of the day, I’m not sure it matters. It depends upon your definition of the ego, but I’m not sure I believe it ever goes away. I think as one becomes more and more present, it expands, it allows for more, it becomes radically open. It integrates into your presence, is absorbed by your presence. It serves you, the true you, and not the other way around. I think it is a mistake to try to discard the ego. It will only result in failure. We must allow it to have it’s tantrums as we sit by and observe with compassion.

-u.s.-
http://wp.me/3cmAz

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@nappa,

–Any sense of self will be false. It will be ego.
That is the definition of ego i refer to.–

i don’t know if i agree with this definition, with a true look at one’s own actions, we can discover who we truly are, our actions define who we are, giving us a sense of self that’s not tainted by anything you can change,

i don’t disagree the ego can taint how we see our actions, but it does this to avoid the truth of them, supplying justifications for destructive acts, meaning, a look at the truth from the true self, the one unbiased by justifications, has the opposite effect,

i think by observing the cause/effect of our actions we can get true sense of self, and this sense is not ego

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@nappa,

— Whatsoever you do, stand out of it, and look and watch.

Whatsoever you do – humbleness, humility, simplicity – nothing will help. Only one thing is possible, and that is just to watch and see that it is the source of all misery. Don’t say it. Don’t repeat it – WATCH. Because if I say it is the source of all misery and you repeat it, then it is useless. YOU have to come to that understanding. Whenever you are miserable, just close the eyes and don’t try to find some cause outside. Try to see from where this misery is coming.

It is your own ego.

If you continuously feel and understand, and the understanding that the ego is the cause becomes so deep-rooted, one day you will suddenly see that it has disappeared. Nobody drops it – nobody can drop it. You simply see; it has simply disappeared, because the very understanding that ego causes all misery becomes the dropping. THE VERY UNDERSTANDING IS THE DISAPPEARANCE OF THE EGO.

And you are so clever in seeing the ego in others. Anybody can see someone else’s ego. When it comes to your own, then the problem arises – because you don’t know the territory, you have never traveled on it.

The whole path towards the divine, the ultimate, has to pass through this territory of the ego. The false has to be understood as false. The source of misery has to be understood as the source of misery – then it simply drops.

When you know it is poison, it drops. When you know it is fire, it drops. When you know this is the hell, it drops.

And then you never say, “I have dropped the ego.” Then you simply laugh at the whole thing, the joke that you were the creator of all misery.–

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@nappa,

— It drops just like a dead leaf. —

this is my desire for my ego, the final part of that essay you read, it makes no mention of picking up the ego and using it , but of the opposite, — It settles into the ground, dies of its own accord. —

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VladtheGlad (11) (@nappa) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@inception360, What is your Definition of Ego?

How does it integrate into your presence?

Could it really go into a tantrum if you are aware of it, and you separate yourself from it by viewing it?

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VladtheGlad (11) (@nappa) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@tine, – with a true look at one’s own actions, we can discover who we truly are, our actions define who we are, giving us a sense of self that’s not tainted by anything you can change –

But aren’t we always changing?
Aren’t we dynamic, and alive, like the flower? Always growing, learning?

Aren’t our actions just a response of the minds conditioning?
Rather than the presence, the perception of reality and sences, that we are born with?

Isn’t defining oneself limiting to true potential?

Also, is ego purely one sided? Only capable of misery, and dysfunction?
Is it possible that if used right, and not forgotten about, if always under attention it could be used to benifit?

That essay is about presence. About Being, and being alive.
That essay isn’t focused about social interaction, communication, and using the ego.

That’s what this idea is really manifested around.
Can ego be used as a tool, be refined, defined, and learned to be used for purpose efficiently and effectively, like any tool?

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@nappa,

No, and you may not understand where I am coming from, I think the main problem is you consider this conversation from your definition of ego and I from mine, its hard not to, the only thing I can say is this, no excuses, is the key, observe the cause effect of your continually evolving actions and mindsets and make sure they align to who you want to be, o and, make sure who you want to be is the best version of you, not some cliché version we all have allowed society to set up for us BC we are to busy pursuing ego centered ventures to spend anytime figuring ourself out, and its BC we are running from the cause effect of our ego-driven,selfish, insecure actions, be it mental or physical,

Lemme think more on it, ty for the discussion

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Equel (11) (@equel) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@nappa,
be careful with ego and using it,
its the same as using psychedelics in my opinion.

stay ontop of the ego, dont let it get ontop of you.

the thing about ego and i mean know dis
is that from your perspective you cannot know this
you need an outside perspective so you can notice
or believe your free from ego in ignorance.

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VladtheGlad (11) (@nappa) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@tine, I think we’re both on the same page about living life ego less, its benefits, and the detriments of the ego.

What’s interesting to ponder though is this;
Can you use the ego, from the state of presence (not succumbing to the ego, but using it with awareness) to better achieve goals, and function with greater efficiency.

Also, have you considered reading A New Earth?
If your interested in the topic, it is a great novel to broaden your horizons, and go in depth.

Thank you as well.

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VladtheGlad (11) (@nappa) 8 years, 9 months ago ago

@equel, Nice Rhyme.
Poetic, and meaningful, and with a great warning.

That’s the idea though.
To be aware of the ego in your daily life, and to work on presence is always a work in progress, and essential.

Where the idea really goes to the meat is this;
When needed/beneficial, to consciously, through presence, use a pre-defined (structurally simple) ego that one is aware of, and monitors.

This way, ideas, reactions, and beliefs that may be essential to the completion of a goal, task, or venture can be quickly supplied without long on the spot thought. (Almost like an instinct, but one that you create).

When an ego is not needed/beneficial (Most of the time), one reverts back to an “egoless” ego.
An ego who’s only instincts is to monitor ego, and be present.
One may also refer this to presence.

Note: Having predefined ego’s one is aware of, and uses, may make it easier to not
succumb to alternate, subconscious, and environment imposed ego’s.

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