There is an equation to the way the wind moves the leaves, and the manner in which our minds think. There is an equation to the heat on my skin and the breath within. But it is not for us to understand it, only to know it exists.
@spiraltouch F=mA, ?, (delta)T= Q/mc, V=(pi)r^2h Newton was a man who revealed to humanity a way of thinking about the universe which literally defines human education today. The physical universe is understandable in concrete, often mathematical terms, and not only is it possible to discover the values and relationships which make up our subjective experience, we can manipulate them to our advantage. While this, in my opinion was one of the greatest contributions an individual has ever made to humanity in terms of raw POWER, today it has caused us to misidentify ourselves with God and lose the sense of mystery and awe which are so beneficial in there own respects.
@spiraltouch In Fyodor Dostoyevsky’s famous short story/novella Notes From the Underground, his mentally unstable and isolated narrator philosophizes to his audience (or a group of hallucinated gentlemen) about the trajectory of society and the nature of free will. Writing in the late 19th century, determinism was becoming a real threat to spirituality for those in Europe and even across the globe. As one physicist put it, we have nothing left to discover in science, only to measure to more and more precise decimals. What kind of effect would having complete knowledge of the physical world have on the future of mankind? When “even love is reduced to a set of tables, a series of values”, nothing sets us in awe, nothing drives our curiosity, our sense of infinite potential. Mankind would stagnate, degenerate, rot in its own pride. In our pursuit of knowledge, although we constantly discover how little we truly understand, mankind often thinks itself master of the universe. Destroying his own environment, poisoning his own air and water, burning irreplaceable resources for the present disregarding the future. Men and women embrace atheism somehow due to our better understanding the nature of the big bang. Discredit God and replace him with his laws of nature and quantum physics, which are only manifestations. While science is an incredible and beautiful gift we have been given, there is no sense of gratitude or humility in it. I have no qualms about studying or discovering anything at all, but it is how we view that knowledge which I have become disappointed in. The beautiful symmetry and mathematical clarity of this universe is mind-boggling, the complexity and orchestration of the dance of life for 3.5 billion years is truly a testament to some higher intelligence, and yet Darwin is hailed by some as the man who killed God. As a whole, the human ego has begun to engulf our every action and thought and the consequences of that could be very serious.
@stfrancis, What you said resonate a lot with what I think. It’s also a very beautiful insight.
I agree that atheists discredit God. Those who call themselves atheists, they do it so because they read about it, and decided to adopt it as a belief. They incorporated it to their lives. Atheism when treated that way, is just hatred. When you discredit God, you create dissonance with those who believe in it. I don’t believe in God, but I don’t discredit it. I was raised in a catholic environment, but I never really understood the representation of God. I never managed to understand the existence of an old guy, living in the sky, watching every movement we do, judging us for everything we do, that will decide if I will go to heaven or hell based upon my actions. This is how I understood while I was a kid. Since I started reading a lot of psychology, spirituality, HEthen knowledge in general, I managed to reformulate my beliefs.
I still don’t believe in God as that judging-human-element as they taught me in school (religious school). Instead, I started to not to believe (I think believing is pretty much accepting a limited label to your life), but accepting life as a whole, and this whole is what a lot of people call by God. Instead of projecting the image of God towards the outside, praising something else, that is not here, but we supposedly ‘feel it’ (faith), I projected God inside me, and inside everyone else. What you said about the lack gratitude and humility in science is brilliant. But I just don’t resonate with people that project the humility and gratitude towards something external. ‘Doing the right thing’ would be just a consequence. I think that limits ourselves too much, in terms of relating to other people. Once you start seeing everything as a whole, me, you, and everyone else, as a just one, and this one is God, your humility and gratitude goes towards ourselves, you, me, and everyone else, directly.
I am sounding like a preacher. I actually don’t want too, I am just trying to make my point, not change yours. Just to make sure. (:
@fercgomes I too was raised in a Catholic environment and came up against the same issues. Today though I incorporate catholicism into my beliefs rather than rejecting it. I believe the world’s religions all have something to teach us about spirituality and the nature of reality, but it takes wisdom to discern human error and tradition from the truth. Religion is an attempt to understand, when what is really needed is an attitude, an orientation toward truth.
@stfrancis, I don’t have much knowledge about Christianity, so I can’t incorporate much from it. But I do think that Religion and Science are two different ways to explain the same thing. Different labels of the same thing. I would blindly say that philosophy can connect both. At least I use it to connect both systems, in my view. I think Religion is also being using as a ‘Big Brother’, as a mass-controling tool. I can’t argue the value of Religion too much, I wasn’t present in its whole process of creation. I can only set my values of it based on my present situation as each one can set its own value for Religion. Some use it for they own comfort. Some use for justifying their actions. Some use it to find a light in the darkness. Some use it to find order in chaos. It’s all about questioning and getting pre-made answers.
I have only found my inner peace in the question, not in the answer. Abstaining from the question, actually. I think you shouldn’t question the meaning of life. If you question the meaning of life, you will use words, a system that is limited in meaning. I think those who can truly ‘find a meaning’ are those who doesn’t question themselves the meaning of their lives, instead, they just experience life as a meaningless experience. It’s all about ‘enjoying the ride’, ‘singing or dancing the song’, and I could spend a long time just naming metaphors. When you are listening to a song, you’re looking for the end of the song, otherwise you would just listen the last note. You want to feel it as a whole.
I just went too far from the subject, let me back up a little.
Religion, at least Christianity messes up too much with your guilt. I have proved that to myself last night, when I was arguing with a street preacher, and he was really trying to make me feel guilty, asking if I think rape and murder was right, and saying that I was the reason there is evil in the world, so I would lower my guard and he could plant the seeds of the christian doctrines in me. Luckily, I didn’t. I don’t find comfort in something that cage us into ‘rules’ as a condition to be ‘salved’ in the end. The expression ‘Jesus died for you’ summarize what I’m trying to say.
Maybe in a long time ago, Religion was something that REALLY united people, something that really tried to explain life, just like science is trying to nowadays. Today it is being used as a pretext for war and hate with those that doesn’t agree with you, and as a mass-control tool. The world is too crazy now to not have someone to guide it, right? But we can’t know, we were not there to know it. The books were written by someone, and in the author’s view. We can’t take someone’s view as ours, it’s like putting a square inside a circle, it will fit, but it won’t fill it completely. That’s why I don’t put so much value in the Christian’s doctrines, it is so much based in the past. I put no value in the past. Past is non-real.
”Religion is an attempt to understand, when what is really needed is an attitude, an orientation toward truth.”
Well, I am not trying to understand life anymore and my orientation is not toward anything, just to life itself. Life is constructive and destructive. Opposite forces that creates balance. You can ask yourself why does it happen, but it won’t change anything. I prefer letting myself go with the stream. For me, ‘Life’, ‘Truth’, ‘God’, are just different names for the same thing.
I guess I have to say sorry for writing such long texts, unfortunately I still can’t express myself in short sentences, I always take it too far. I hope I can work on that soon.
I think Alan Watts put it very well one time. If there was a point to life like an end or making it to heaven or something then that would be the only point and we should die right now. If the end was the point of things then composers would only write the finale of songs, the best composers would be the one’s who wrote the shortest songs! Dancing would only be the final move! It is in experiencing life, in listening to the music, in dancing the dance that joy and purpose are found. The meaning of life is to live, not to seek some holier existence. You are holy today, the kingdom of God is on earth.
@fercgomes @stfrancis I could never much believe the concept of God in a form either, but that was needed for the masses and i completely get what you’re saying about the mass control, but i’ve come to see the beauty that it gives to followers. Leaving ones faith in God, the holy entity, who is full of the good emotions and factors, believing that he is by one’s side truly empowers them as their thoughts will stay because hey it’s God, how can he fuck it up? So the doubt that many of us have is removed, and removing doubt and believing that what you want will truly happen, makes it happen!
Also prayers, kind words, they really have an impact. I went for this basic pranic healing workshop. Prana being another name for energy, just like Chi. We could feel energy, auras, see energy (at a very beginner level) on the very first day and everyone could take in energy from one hand and send it out on the other, actually transferring this energy from the air, sun or water to other people(felt by both). So they spoke about a spiritual chord that everyone has, its connected to your head and goes up towards the sky? heaven? universe? i don’t know, so we could feel eachother’s just like we could feel auras. Then they told us to put our tongue as far back as we could, as if we were trying to swallow it or at least touch our pallet and made us feel the same person’s chord once more. It became almost double the size, they then went on to do the same, but this time say a prayer in your mind while doing so. It doubled again! so that showed me that even though i don’t pray, i just said 4 lines of this mantra we say at the end of yoga class, it truly became 4 times larger than the original size.
Thoughts control our actions that control our life, and devotees that are deeply into it, will create whatever reality they find suitable under God’s light, where many of us will hit a lot more stumbling blocks because of fear, doubt and disbelief.
Understanding this, i still can’t be one of them. I was an ‘athiest'(not that i was against anyone’s personal choice of beliefs) up till a few months back, but i now have a different understanding of ‘God’.
Everything has it’s positives and negatives, i’ve realized the good side of religion and wanted to share it because i too have been pretty against it for the majority of my life :)
@stfrancis, i see your point,- agreed…… but it is hard for people to come to there senses, see that allot of things they say actually say the same thing, so they’r magical for lack of a better word understanding and innerstanding don’t become beautifull,- creating beautifull new words or definitions or even talk with the idea of mathematics or imagination of mathematics.
We tend to put people in boxes and when they experience something out of this box they are put back in the box because it is not matching the “believe” system of interaction,- it becomes or less the stigmatized people that might in fact if they where given the chance produced the most amazing insights, conceptions, ideas,-
To me everything radiats with mathematics,- everywhere i see, read i see equations, ideas being formed, attached with new math and consolidated to say things with less words,- nature / weather. So i directly used your mathematics to create ideas, i’ve stopped looking and talking with people from believe systems cause there frustrating but i def. see your point,- a bit more AAWW for the world would be appreciated.
@stfrancis, yeah seen it many times,- it isn’t that far from a truth form. Love it how he interwove the kabbalah in to it,- so smart!
In a way the stock exchange is a reversed idea” – it is a part of an equation to me, question perhaps that has lost it’s purpose. It’s like there pulling a bull,- but it ain’t a bulls game anymore. So we as mediocre thinkers are subject to a game of psychopaths that lost there magical touch, don’t think or put things back on the shelves where it belongs. Some books are not ment to be used in a fabricated plastic illusion of capital fantasy,- sure capital turns wheels,- but once a wheel has become to big,- does not bring the balance where it is intended to do so,- for what is the purpose of capital. It is those questions that gave rise to that flow,- equation perhaps, but things tend to come in 2’s ,- catch my drift?