Wonderful People of HE, I SERIOUSLY need some guidance here. I’m Markus and here is a challenging situation I’m in. Would appreciate ALL ideas, comments and advice. Fancy yourself a teacher or guide? Please I need help on this. Here is the situation:
My girl is Christian. I am a “univarsalist” apparently. To her, it seems, the bible is the only way. She is relatively open-minded and (god help me she never reads this) have giving me enough reason and patience to believe she is! But her insistence that we cannot trust ourselves and should rather just follow the bible, as well as her getting offended when i say the bible is man written and inspired by god rather than being written by god, indicates she might not be as open minded as she claims.
She believes she understands what the bible is trying to say and last night she was trying to read me some christian book that was going on about how God’s plan is bigger than your own desires and that we as His creations will never get close to understanding what our personal lives were intended for and therefore all we can and have to do is follow the scriptures of the bible. It was all about how we are to obey and not question (or rather that questioning is pointless) and that to try and use intelligence to figure out your life’s meaning or purpose is a waste of time. Because god is our creator, and bigger than us, we just cannot understand him.
This obviously was very irritating to me as this is not the “god” or “love-force” i know.
My point is that i don’t really mind who’s right and who’s wrong, as long as we can all co-exist and settle for the idea that god is love, no matter what point of view you see it from and this has been the common ground for us to agree spiritually and morally upon on a lot of things until now.
So, last night, i questioned all this “you know nothing, God knows everything” reading and it resulted in her (taking a guess here) feeling misunderstood, frustrated and alone.
I NEVER want her to feel that way again, but i cannot pretend to agree with the bible on all things and just follow blindly.
We’ve been together for almost 2 years now and i have moved in with her, earlier this year. I was her idea and it has been good so far. We have a lot of fun together and often share loving peaceful times, but this religion topic, has a way of doing a lot of damage to the trust and understanding we share. If the topic of spirituality could be avoided, i would do so gladly, but being excited about how glorious the universe and its creator is, is something i am passionate about and need to express, i cannot do so. Similarly, i know that she needs to express and be passionate about her spirituality too without me arguing or implying that she is mistakin. She also needs to feel “agreed with”. I wish we could celebrate together instead of avoiding the subject.
Thus far we have had the common ground, that “god is love” and that Jesus was an example of living as love.
But this business of there is only ONE true god and everyone else is mistakin’ and we cannot trust our own revelations if it is not backed by the bible is creating a sticky situation.
I knew full-well that she was a traditional christian when i met her and thought that this “god is love” principle was enough of a bridge for us to live together as spiritual people. Did i make a mistake?
How can i restore and improve mutual trust and understanding? How can i let us share together and celabrate our spirituality? Do i have to take her to church and just eat up the ideas i fully know are limiting concepts?
Please. I need help. I love her to death. But i cannot live without understanding being there for us both.
Sorry bout the essay and putting all this on you. But i hope you will enjoy the challenge more than I.
Choose an emoticon
@yaelalonso, Yes, In the email i was referring to earlier, I took as much blame away from her as possible and tried to own up to as much as i could as well as dedicate myself to change and more support. Thanx for your fighting spirit. I needed that along with all the advice. Rest assured. I’m NOT giving up. I’m trying to OUT-EVOLVE this thing so to speak and raise the vibration as much as i can. NOT defeated here. In fact, i am FIGHTING and WORKING. She’s so worth it and deserve someone who will be there till the fat lady sings..
@analogfrog, You have to remember that a lot of religious people believe their immortal souls depend on observance of the ideology, and if she really loves you it will likely be a case of her trying to convince you to see her truth, her love for you may allow her to accept you without that faith but her love for you will also compel her to keep at trying to bring you over to it.
So you can accept her for her beliefs without trying to change her, but can she do the same? Or can you some how convince her that you are not damned even though you don’t observe faith as she does? Unfortunately certain questions draw a line between people, it is a made up and bullshit line but people insist upon it and it can be something that cannot be reconciled.
What you can choose to do is fake it til you make it.
@analogfrog, Some people, like me, can handle the idea that when I die I cease to exist, and I believe in doing what I determine to be the right thing, a combination of logic, compassion and discipline, but I do that for my own current psychological stability, not by hope of some divine reward or fear of afterlife punishment.
But fairy tales like that give people comfort and who am I to take that away from them? So I stay true to my way, but I also humour a lot of people so they can get by without any concern for me. Generally I don’t draw attention because my way flies under their radar, giving people peace of mind is not really a lie, it is a courtesy, and it is not being untrue to yourself if you still do things your way.
“Am i learning that without a mutual spiritual understanding a great relationship is IMPOSSIBLE?” @analogfrog, I think you may have solved it for yourself. Think about where the relationship could go with deeper, conflicting beliefs. What happens when it comes time to raising children? What if she wants them to strongly believe in the Bible as she does and wants them at a private school that teaches things you don’t agree with? That’s just one example.
My point is, 2 people who come together will last if they are headed towards the same place in life, and have similar values and beliefs towards life. Who knows, maybe once you find someone who shares your viewpoint (and more) you may look at this current relationship in hindsight and understand why it didn’t work out/won’t work out in the long run.
@analogfrog, Yael doesn’t know but it’s textbook the things they say when the ego is threatened so hard like his is. He’ll be alright. It’s okay. He is loved eternally. And he’s holding onto a big hurt. We’ll hug it out eventually on some spaceship in about 300 years. Life is joy and happiness at all times. The default of life is never misery. Pain is a symptom that something is wrong. Always. GOOD LUCK to you.
@yaelalonso, I am not trying to shame you. I am just speaking just like you. Why are you seeing things that do not exist in me? I am human. I have feelings, too. And you are hurting mine….I was just giving a different perspective…which I will not do on this board again in a thread that is not my own. I hope that helps…no one. Congratulations. Let’s have cake.
Thank you all :) @planetconcrete, @meraviglioso, @trek79, @yaelalonso, Too good all you’ve shared. And thank you for your wishes. That will drive me. @trek79 Yes. I also think it is more graceful to not let others be bothered by your own beliefs. I see that now. @meraviglioso, I can now only hope that we are going to the same destinations. Once i knew and had “mystical” dreams with loads of symbolic indicators. I will keep faith and relax about it. She already has a son, 8 years old now, and she grants him alot of freedom and does not try to indoctrinate him with her own personal beliefs, but she guides him gently toward what she thinks is good. We have had the having children discussion and she assured me that when we do have a child I will have equal say in all matters. Not necessarily the truth when the time comes, but at least she thinks so now. Once again all this has REALLY helped loads and i am willing to roll with the punches, adapt, move on, whatever it takes to have as much love in my life as possible. We’ll see how it goes from this moment on. Later today we’ll talk about it and now thanks to you all, i can make it as healing as possible. Peace and Love to you all and [email protected], lets have some cake now.
@planetconcrete, Haha, that was extremely condescending, as I’m sure you know. I am fully aware of how I react and behave, and I am aware of my ego, and I’m fine with it. The real question is, why must you abandon yours to find peace and happiness? You’re a smart guy, so I am sure you understand that when you talk about another like they are lost and ignorant, as you are doing to me, it is condescending, rude, and of course highers your own inflated sense of self worth, or ego. Please don’t try to make it seem like you are an ‘elightened’ being, you are just a human with an ego pretending to be without. Do you, but don’t be condescending, and don’t be repetitive.
OMW. I’m so embarrassed. Bwakakakaka… XD fuck me. i need to chill. She just phoned me and she sounds so cheerful! She MUST love me A LOT! Turns out she’s not all that upset after all and its me who’s sitting here freaking out about it all alone. Now i’m sure she meant every word in her email, but what i just heard in her voice makes me sigh a MASSIVE sigh of relief. Either way lesson learn. Just thought I’d update you all after being so genuinely caring. Gonna stick to my plan though and make let life be AWESOME. PEACE!
@planetconcrete, @yaelalonso, Aye guys. Chill. @planetconcrete. Your advice was super useful to me man! Please you have much to share! DO NOT HOLD BACK on other public posts and forums. Your contribution is valuable! @yealalonso, dude lets just let it go man. If you saw yourselves as i see you from this post, you would forgive and forget because, seriously, how can such awesome people not recognise the awesomeness in yourselves and each other! HAH THIS iS HILARIOUS! LOL AND NOW I’M PREACHING TO YOU! LMFAO! What a choas being human and having emotions and ego’s and shit. ANYWAY. there i go again. Just thanx. Just goodbye. If any of you need anything, check with me first to see if i can help OK? PEACE.
@analogfrog, Hi, I’m familiar with the predicament you’re dealing with. You’re not alone. Managing relationships with fundamental Christians can be frustrating not only for couples but in business and other types of relations as well. The good news is that there are methods that do work. They generally revolve around a core theme, which then has to be adjusted to individual circumstances. I can share some possibilities, but could use a little more information to understand your situation. If you could answer a few questions either here in reply or private messaging, I might be able to suggest a practical, working solution. For instance, can you tell me: How often does the issue come up? How does it usually surface? (Just out of nowhere, does the wrong button get pushed etc.). Who initiates it? You, Her, Both? Are there certain times or circumstances where it’s more likely to surface? Are there days or longer periods of time where the issue doesn’t surface at all? If so, what can you think of a reason why that is? Just answering these questions to you may provide some insight. Any additional information you can add, that is unique to your circumstances would be helpful.
@analogfrog, Thar’s beautiful, hop you’re feeling better about it all.
@planetconcrete, What I said may have been crude (I was up for twenty four hours coupled with a depressive state), however I stand by the main sentiment that most of your post presuppose that you know more than everyone else because you had a “soul- transfer”. Regardless, sorry for the accusatory nature of the post.
@yaelalonso, I do know quite a bit because of that. I am sorry if my knowledge of the afterworld and “all that is” is offensive to you. The soul transfer was not fun nor was this past summer where I poured thousands of hours of study and research into what happened.
“main sentiment that most of your post presuppose that you know more than everyone else because you had a “soul- transfer”
My bedside manner is a bit off since I don’t have the programming from childhood and adulthood. My intention is to help. I cannot help it if I know these things. I cannot help it that I have two arms. Shall I cut off one of my arms so that you will feel better? It’s silly. My intention is to share what I know. Not to be a “know it all” because I do not know it all. Love at all times. I am a “blank” and others project their fears and insecurities onto me. That is true. Tell me how I feel.
@analogfrog, religion is a hard thing to argue about. If I were you I would find a good documentary on youtube or wherever that reflects your views. Have her watch it and see what she thinks. You cant force an idea upon someone, all you can do is provide information on something and let them make a conclusion based off the new info.
@analogfrog I personally don’t think conflicting beliefs really exist, they are just made up lines we draw between each other, but one person cannot decide what makes sense to another, the only place conflicting beliefs can exist is within the one person.
There are people who are willing to kill or harm others, then there are people who go out of their way to avoid doing that as best they can, we say it is belief that causes this but that is bullshit, people adopt beliefs so they can justify their shitty behaviour but really it is just about greed, desire, fear, ignorance and general confusion, an excuse to avoid using discipline.
People are lazy and weak, they find it easier to justify that by excuses than to actually make an effort in life or to control themselves. They use excuses like their beliefs or another persons beliefs to be dicks, to exclude people, to not care. It is easier to ignore the sufferings of others if you consider them scum who deserve it, and that is all beliefs really give us, comfort in treating each other like scum.
Just a little update. I’m reading her book now. Life is moving along. The loving atmosphere between us is restored. @trek79 Your advice was the solution to my situation. If there is true love and beliefs start getting in the way, hold back on opinions and find another way to celebrate and express your truth, Like on HE! :) I feel like i’m getting my say and i don’t need her to agree after all.
There is enough we agree on, in the bible and out, so that i really don’t have to discuss every detail with her. After all, like you helped me understand Ray, Beliefs are mainly personal and don’t have to be public all the time. Unless you’re using it to excuse something away, or avoid a real-life matter.
Don’t know if beliefs are really just created to excuse or justify negative behavior though. After all it is my belief that we are all one, that grants me the power to be patient with assholes and close-minded people.
I have mentioned that i am over-emotional at times and would like to correct the very first post i made to start this forum. She is open minded enough. Open minded enough to co-exist with me that have strong views against religion and open minded enough to put love first, ABOVE the differences we have. Obviously this indicates that one of her beliefs is that love is above all and the most real thing there is – wich is the leading idea of ALL that i believe.
Also might i add that there is belief, the things you believe and then there is truth. Belief as a word can also mean “personal truth”. When the belief has led to healing or achievement it becomes personal truth and that is exactly why i pissed her off. Regardless of her actions i should have respected what she knows to be the truth! And that is why respecting her personal truth has cleared the air and restored our channels of comunication almost instantly.
If we can respect each others personal truths, where beliefs have proven to serve the individual, we will naturally influence and expand each others personal truths. Without your personal truths i could not get this clarity. Instead of questioning and trying to refine another human’s beliefs, refine your own. This was the growth i needed and am now engaged in. It has expanded my beliefs. So thanx again for being different (yet the same)! ‘Nuf preaching from me! MUCH Blessings to you all!
@analogfrog I feel you bro, beliefs are also a huge part in learning to do things right, the most efficient or painless way, and that is where a lot of religion plays. But I believe that comes down to logic and the fact that examples prove the rule.
However a lot of people abuse belief to justify their laziness or their resolve to impose their conclusion onto others, when they have not really explored alternatives, it is blind faith so to speak, trusting a source that is either unproven or no longer applies to different circumstances.
So I’m glad if I have helped in some way, to help you see the range of perspective, but I am not claiming to be right either, it is ultimately what makes sense to you and to her, it has little to do with my opinions, and that is all I am giving.