TRUTH please read

ThatOfficialGuy (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 5 months ago

how do we know what truth is ? how do we know what we are told is true . how do we know that the language we speak is really the true language? is truth the origin ? or it truth the “re-constructed” when you look in the mirror how do you know that, what there is . really is there when your eyes cant even see the world for what it really is without the brain? what about numbers? if we couldnt speak supposedly as cavemen. how were these numbers brought about . feet, inches. height , size. why is this “word” that i reasearch give me this definition. the truth . what makes something true . is it because once something is established and created, &everyone comes to an agreement that this is what its going to be . that makes it true? religion , there are so many different religions how do you know which religion is the true religion . vitamins & minerals , elements , cells , were all founded and given a statement to which was brought to the other population and everyone decided if this is the way its going to be .. ever thought about how is the person you are with or just seen view life? is it dull are the colors as bright , how sharp are the edges . is anything blurred? the color blind , if a group of color blind babies were grown up distant from the rest of the world. learned everything the same as everyone else in normal society but the colors they see were true to them because they all agreed that this apple was purple and this grape was red? the hearing impaired may hear something else and say its true because theyve heard it this way . how can you really say anything is true or false? positive and negative , why is this side negative and why is this side positive? i hope i am explaining this correctly i dont want to come off as unintelligent or as to be making no sense . if i am please tell me . the truth , who can accurately determine what truth is , what is true and what is true when since from birth we are told this and we are told that . in america christian might be brought up as knowing this is the truth or if you eat this it is good for you , likewise in asia where their asian religion is told to be the truth , . as if you have a baby and tell a baby that drinking this soda will help you grow big and strong and milk is bad and will make your bones rotten , then until this baby reaches a higher conscious it will forever believe what it is told . just because you are told something it is true or false . once it is determined , it has to stay that way? i think not and has been proven , for years people believed the earth was flat . until you know who came along , now their truth is now false . what if in 100 yrs they figure out the earth is not round or flat , it is in curved in a spiral formation but the human eyes put it together in this shape (bogus trying to make a point) anti matter , matter . how we know something is there and not there . if i was sitting here and heard a voice and there is no one there . does that mean their are spirits or ghosts? just my mind playing tricks? or the neighbor was close to my thin walls and i heard one of his words spoken loudly , .. i can go on an on . but the main question i want to ask . what is truth , how do you define it , and if truth is truth then what is false , or lies to speak of ? if anyone can explain what my mind is trying to type feel free to add on or disagree with me , all feedback is welcome .

June 11, 2013 at 6:44 pm
Timo (41) (@timoteo) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@thatofficialguy,
As the zen master would say,
“if you seek truth, cease to cherish opinions.”
You have tasted the fruit of truth! I.e. That the “truth” can never be defined and put into a box. It just is what is so
:)

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ThatOfficialGuy (7) (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

mind-blowing [email protected], and who is this zen master i would like to research & study this master of zen

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PRAKASH (236) (@lesterxp) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@thatofficialguy, Truth is non-dual. If you seek truth as opposed to illusion you will have only one more illusion.
As Timo @timoteo, I would complete it – “Don’t seek truth, just drop your opinions”.

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ThatOfficialGuy (7) (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@lesterxp, dont seek truth , drop your opinions? i do not understand this phrase what so ever but i do understand the comment made towards me ,so if truth is non-dual . then why is illusion even put into the matter if truth is non-dual … the free dictionary duality

1. the state or quality of being two or in two parts; dichotomy

wiki :Nondualism, also called non-duality, is a term and concept used to define various strands of thought.
the free dictionary non :indicating negation nonexistent

http://www.successconsciousness.com/what_is_nonduality.htm

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PRAKASH (236) (@lesterxp) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@thatofficialguy, You don’t need to understand it. Just try it. Take a challenge for a day. Give up all opinions. ALL OF THEM. Even those that form in the back of your head (these include preferences, morality, etc). Miss a step and the challenge is failed.

Truth as a concept in written or spoken language is dual. That is because language itself is dual. There isn’t one term that hasn’t got its opposite. That is because the mind cannot exist in the absence of duality – for any thought you have there is its rival. Mind itself is duality and illusory. By dropping opinions you drop the mind – you cannot form opinions if you have no opposite terms for comparison. By dropping the mind truth is revealed.

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ThatOfficialGuy (7) (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@lesterxp, this is very very fascinating . but being who i am an the state of conscious that my body mind and spirit is currently in . i do not understand how to drop all opinions. i would try to compare it to being a vegetable but a vegetable still thinks , (paralyzed human) .. have you ever dropped all opinions? how do you do it . please inform me , because i can not wrap my mind around the concept of dropping all opinions

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DaFunks (366)M (@Dafunks) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

I have talked about this many times on here. The problem with questions like this is that the person asking the question needs to educate themselves on so many things. This takes time which normally the person asking is not willing to give.

Learn some history on language. It is an amazing subject. Learn the differences between Facts, Theories and hypotheses. Most people have no idea what the differences are between these.

1 will always be 1 no matter what language you say it in. Stop over thinking Math as it is not a language like we speak. Math does not lie.

People always wonder these things. If you get into any debate with people for long enough these things always come up.

Some links you may or may not be bothered to look at:

http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/1122science7.html – Explains the differences between Facts, Theories and hypotheses

http://grammar.about.com/od/grammarfaq/a/Where-Does-Language-Come-From.htm – Theories on language

http://www.livescience.com/26697-are-ghosts-real.html – Ghosts

http://www.venganza.org/category/evidence/ – How most of what your talking about can be used. It is also one of my fave books.

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PRAKASH (236) (@lesterxp) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@thatofficialguy, There isn’t a standardized way to do that. That isn’t actually an action so it isn’t DONE It is called “letting go”. “renunciation”, No one can teach you how to “let go” except your SELF.

In the Chan (zen) tradition it is supposedly achieved through meditation and koan solving.
It may work or not, usually after attainment the student (now a master) realizes the futility of the practices because dropping the mind is dropping everything in it, this including the practice (be it any kind, any action). It is like waking up from a dream. What do you do to wake up and realize you were dreaming?

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ThinKaLini (16) (@Thinkalini) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@Lesterxp Dropping all opinions is impossible. without opinions you are not being true to yourself. every person has their own sets of morals and standards whether they are right is left up to the judge. Truth is like beauty.. in the eyes of the beholder

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ThatOfficialGuy (7) (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@Dafunks, i put the time into finding the answers that i have questions for , but i am saying this without going to the links you have posted YET, i noticed that you may have over read my description and overlooked some things . i dont ask why , this is true . why that is true . i ask HOW do YOU know THIS in TRUTH . i quote from above ” since from birth we are told this and we are told that ” you have only merely posted links to thoughts that were created by another person . you have not created these for yourself , you were not the origin . you are not who made up these Facts, Theories and hypotheses. you only have entrusted your mind to believe that these are true because you have convinced yourself they are. ever tried to convince your self of something ? make yourself stop believing in some you do . (i really need to learn how to make my point better)

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PRAKASH (236) (@lesterxp) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@Thinkalini, one quesition: what is a person?

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@thatofficialguy,

Relativity. Context. Consistentcy. Relative to the context at hand, what is consistent?

I have also wondered the same thing and made a thread about it too: https://www.highexistence.com/topic/definition-of-truth-what-is-real/

Basically I have found, after thinking about this for some time, that truth doesn’t really exist. Some people associate truth with real, but what is real? If you define real as “what really is”, then how can you know what really is? If you can’t know what really is, how can you know truth? The answer is you can’t.

I think anything that is “true” is a consistent relative context. Think about it. Everything “true” is something that normally stays the same in some form relative to how we percieve it. Thus it is said to be true.

The definition I give to truth is “what is consistent relative to what you observe and experience.” My definition suggest that there is no objective truth because even if there was, we could never know if there was. Claiming to know something outside of your own observation or experince is just a guess.

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ThatOfficialGuy (7) (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@lesterxp, well if your saying you can drop all opinions by meditation i can sorta relate . by making the mind think of nothing than you drop all opinions? what i am thinking you are trying to say . is making yourself into an infant once more . BUT even an infant has opinions , just because it does not speak does not mean it doesnt enjoy something or dislike something . are you forgetting the definition of opinion? google 1″A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.”2 “the beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing.” . so if you drop your opinions you have no decision on truth you cannot say what is truth or what is not truth because you have no opinion on it , if no brain in the world had an opinion then everything would be the same? or would everything be more different from each other? would it be more careless? opinion i think can be based on multiple things, all of the problems in the world are based and fought over opinions . look at all the warss who thought this and who thought that we are fighting over opinions of another person, these opinion which have turned into truth because a big enough amount of people have an opinion on the same thing . so if everyone were to drop their opinions , does that mean their would be world peace? is that the key?

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PRAKASH (236) (@lesterxp) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@thatofficialguy, Have you asked about yourself as being true? are you real? Everything you know (by hearsay or or by self discovery) depends on YOU BEING. So You know you exist. But “I” is an assumption. How do you define this “I” ? How do you know it is real?
In the advaita vedanta tradition the question “who am I?” is the primordial. One should ask this question until the mind cannot find any more answers.
Mind creates values – right, wrong, truth lies. So if the answer comes from the mind… can it be trusted?

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ThatOfficialGuy (7) (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@Thinkalini, Truth is like beauty.. in the eyes of the beholder .. love it absolutly love it but , that makes the next beholders’ beauty. in this beholders eyes . hideous . ? amm i right or wrong or nor

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ThinKaLini (16) (@Thinkalini) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@lesterxp, A person is a life force…. in this case a human being

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ThatOfficialGuy (7) (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@monkeyzazu, woah that some deep shit man , forreal that shit sound fuckin believable , so believable i had to use foul language lmao . i really like that definition too , nowhere on the internet could i find a definition like that .. you should consider trying to get that approved by the dictionary people if thats possible

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DaFunks (366)M (@Dafunks) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@thatofficialguy, I post links to these facts because I am not going to write a science paper for a reply to this post. I try to give replies as best I can on here though.

Many things I believe now as facts I do research. All facts, theories can be researched by you. You can look at science papers yourself. You can recreate these theories yourself. You can also make your own if you can back up your ideas and hypothesis.

Fact: The speed of light = 299 792 458 m / s

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ThatOfficialGuy (7) (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@lesterxp, no it cannot be trusted. just because the mind has created this does not mean this creation is true. im starting to lose my idea of truth as this forum goes along and the minds post their thoughts , what is intriguing to me , is that you keep asking the same questions im asking, to me it seems as though you are saying what im saying but ina different way , you too does not know what truth is and according to this “advaita vedanta tradition” which i will do research on , you will bother yourself with an idea until that idea no longer exists in this delusional illusion mind that you have made yourself to believe that if the idea no longer prospers than it no longer is an idea which turns it into a lie which makes it into a illusion that you cannot describe because you dont know if your illusion is true so you rather stay with the blank mind of everything is and illusion which makes your mind to believe that everything is a lie. you are contradicting yourself my friend or my understanding of your thought process is not correct.. please correct me if i did not & hope i did not offend

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ThatOfficialGuy (7) (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@Dafunks, you still seem to me to be avoiding my main question how do you know this is to be “true” well of course science says the speed of light is this The speed of light = 299 792 458 m / s but , how long is 9? or 2 or 7? if my math terminology is right, (im not the smartest person in the world nor am i close to it) but m/s is miles per second? how long is a second in space how long is a second? or a mile ? of course you can break it down and say feet inches centimeters etc etc blah blah , but what makes you entrust in this and believe it to be true . PLEASE dont think i am here saying everything is a lie or trying to deny everything in the world no that is not me , i am merely stating and keep asking what makes you. and why do you, and how you do YOU know ? because its on paper ? its in a book ., its been around for so long? YOU ARE MERELY STATING AND REPRESENTING OTHER PEOPLES THOUGHTS AND CREATIONS ABOUT OTHER CREATIONS IN LIFE … can someone please help me explain myself better? anyone know what im trying to say ? or am i a needle in a hatstack

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DaFunks (366)M (@Dafunks) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@thatofficialguy, ok. Well i think you need to learn the what speed is. You need some basic understanding of Math and measurement.

I do understand your points. But I also have done the research on measuring light. Look it up? Its easy.

I only picked a basic video. Its not great but I picked one that is from a normal person. (forget the God stuff. It explains some of the things you asked) Watch it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toTm9BrvHeo

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ThinKaLini (16) (@Thinkalini) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

the only reason you know it to be true is the trust in the science community i suppose. every time a new theory comes out they constantly bicker about it until it becomes science fact. now you cant trust that everything the science world is TRUE most are just estimates anyway trying to make sense of the world we know so little about. they thought the sun went around the world for hundreds of years… we can never truly KNOW anything. we can only believe what we want to believe as a great philosopher once said “once you realize you know nothing you can start to know more”

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ThinKaLini (16) (@Thinkalini) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

ah i miss quoted Socrates! “The only real wisdom is knowing you know nothing”

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DaFunks (366)M (@Dafunks) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@Thinkalini, Again. Learn what a theory is. What you describe is not a theory. This why most of what you said is crap.

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ThatOfficialGuy (7) (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 5 months ago ago

@Dafunks, THIS IS NOT ABOUT LIGHT SIR THIS IS ABOUT TRUTH , THIS NOT. I SIMPLY SAY DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH TRUTH , you are still AVOIDING my questions , DO THESE QUESTIONS CONQUER YOUR MIND TO WHERE YOU HAVE TO RESOLVE IN POSTING LINKS, VIDEOS AND COMMENTS ON THE TRUTH THAT OTHERS HAVE CREATED FOR YOUR MIND? i am not stupid sir , i fully understand math and measurements . time and space. what you keep implying and returning to is the given truth that has been given to you , you are not really making sense you answer a different question with the same answer . why wont you answer my question , because what you are talking about is CRAP

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