how do we know what truth is ? how do we know what we are told is true . how do we know that the language we speak is really the true language? is truth the origin ? or it truth the “re-constructed” when you look in the mirror how do you know that, what there is . really is there when your eyes cant even see the world for what it really is without the brain? what about numbers? if we couldnt speak supposedly as cavemen. how were these numbers brought about . feet, inches. height , size. why is this “word” that i reasearch give me this definition. the truth . what makes something true . is it because once something is established and created, &everyone comes to an agreement that this is what its going to be . that makes it true? religion , there are so many different religions how do you know which religion is the true religion . vitamins & minerals , elements , cells , were all founded and given a statement to which was brought to the other population and everyone decided if this is the way its going to be .. ever thought about how is the person you are with or just seen view life? is it dull are the colors as bright , how sharp are the edges . is anything blurred? the color blind , if a group of color blind babies were grown up distant from the rest of the world. learned everything the same as everyone else in normal society but the colors they see were true to them because they all agreed that this apple was purple and this grape was red? the hearing impaired may hear something else and say its true because theyve heard it this way . how can you really say anything is true or false? positive and negative , why is this side negative and why is this side positive? i hope i am explaining this correctly i dont want to come off as unintelligent or as to be making no sense . if i am please tell me . the truth , who can accurately determine what truth is , what is true and what is true when since from birth we are told this and we are told that . in america christian might be brought up as knowing this is the truth or if you eat this it is good for you , likewise in asia where their asian religion is told to be the truth , . as if you have a baby and tell a baby that drinking this soda will help you grow big and strong and milk is bad and will make your bones rotten , then until this baby reaches a higher conscious it will forever believe what it is told . just because you are told something it is true or false . once it is determined , it has to stay that way? i think not and has been proven , for years people believed the earth was flat . until you know who came along , now their truth is now false . what if in 100 yrs they figure out the earth is not round or flat , it is in curved in a spiral formation but the human eyes put it together in this shape (bogus trying to make a point) anti matter , matter . how we know something is there and not there . if i was sitting here and heard a voice and there is no one there . does that mean their are spirits or ghosts? just my mind playing tricks? or the neighbor was close to my thin walls and i heard one of his words spoken loudly , .. i can go on an on . but the main question i want to ask . what is truth , how do you define it , and if truth is truth then what is false , or lies to speak of ? if anyone can explain what my mind is trying to type feel free to add on or disagree with me , all feedback is welcome .
@joesacco, A fact is not a belief. This is why so many get confused.
Again, yes it is a link. I post links because someone has already said it. They may say it better than me…. And… I am lazy.
Check it out to understand what I said.
truth is before any idea of truth. it simply is and therefor any way you can describe it ultimately falls short. Like this one.
The taoist’s got it right “anything that is described as the tao is not the true tao”
The truth can only be known. I’m glad that more people are beginning to awaken. I don’t even really remember life before awareness woke up to itself experienced by this body/mind. Everything just fell apart, and is still doing so in some ways.
you can use other people but still you have to use your senses to communicate with them. So the came concept applies. Its just your senses interoperating what everything around you seems to be. If they have the same type of nervous system then it does seem accurate that they would come up with a similar solution regardless of weather it was correct or not. Something widely believed, has nothing to do with weather it is true or not.
it’s just a story. if it wasn’t being told what else would there be?
if it’s nothing then why be afraid of it? you cant be aware of being nothing there would have to be something to be aware that nothing existed.
maybe we are mostly afraid of losing an identity to a memory. which again wouldn’t matter if you lost them cause you wouldn’t be aware that you did.
unless of course someone told you about your lost memory.. but how would you know what they said was “true”
because they gave you “facts” to show you that your “lost” memory was true.
if you told them that it wasn’t true cause you don’t remember experiencing the memory so it isn’t “true” to yourself
but they believe it to be so
no such thing as truth. just a bunch of beliefs we choose to agree on.
even this language being used right now to communicate is a limiting shared belief between us just so we can try on some level to “understand” each other.
each word’s definition that im typing to you and that you’re reading is a contract. we are agreeing that these words has a loosely smiler meaning to you to me.
even still there will always be some kind of miscommunication cause these words are limiting the infinite.
you say the word “fact” we ASSume what that means .
but i could say in my realty ive come to say that that word means “flying purple space dragons.”
and i wouldn’t be wrong because that’s what i would believe.
and i know no matter what i say non of this is “true”
by your definition. or by my own cause.
we are all just interpreting the story in whatever way we can. no one else is going to be able to tell you what’s “true” unless you believe it.
There is no ultimate understanding (that is just an idea to attach to). There is simply understanding.
You speak of truth as benefiting something as a means to an end. You are correct that this is the only value of truth…as value. Means must seek value because it has none; ends have dignity and need no value. If a cure is an end then it needs nothing, not even truth.
Truth is an idea, a concept, something that is used to create an identity. Note “is used” meaning it is a means and not an end. It has no dignity. It is useless.
@thatofficialguy, not sure of the actual master who the words come from, but its a well-known phrase of zen. And i definitely recommend checking zen out. Its a practice that leads to the realization of the nature of reality, so you can “see” the truth for yourself
Namaste my brotha
@thatofficialguy, What answer? My answer was I have already answered you.
@howardholmes, I do agree with you up to a point.
“There is no ultimate understanding (that is just an idea to attach to). There is simply understanding.”
I do think we have a ultimate understanding of somethings. We know 1 will always be one (No matter what language you say it in or how you display the number 1) and we know one atom is one atom. This is just a few. All natures laws are facts… some we just do not know yet
“Truth is an idea, a concept, something that is used to create an identity. Note “is used” meaning it is a means and not an end. It has no dignity. It is useless.”
“Truth” is just a word. The meaning of that word does have a value though. If we about anything in life it can come down to just a basic word… That does not take away the value or meaning. Truth and Lie are two opposite words. We know what a Lie is.
Lie has no truth in it.
A Truth has no Lie in it.
We need to give values to things and stick to them. If we start to have people having their own meanings for words then we can’t communicate.
But yes, the person or people who invented the word “Truth” did it for a reason. Truth or Facts were around before this… We just did not have a word for it. Facts have always been around as Nature/The Universe only has facts/Truth.
What does “ultimate understanding” do for us that “understanding” fails to do? Nothing other than provide a label to identify with.
I am not claiming words have no meaning. In fact, it is words and not life which do have meaning. Words have meaning and that is how they create identities. Truth is of no use in the real world because it refers to nothing. If show, show me some of it. Truth is of use in the world of lauding where it becomes valuable to claim to have it. “I have more truth than you.” That is where the value of truth lies.
@howardholmes, Yes. You are correct with that.
Do you think that Truth exists not just in the human mind though? I believe truth was around before even life started. Before we or any life was around things were still happening. I sometimes think that only truth existed before Humans came along. We have confused it.
@dafunks, oh so now you want to walk on the other side on the railroad track huh? ” I sometimes think that only truth existed before Humans came along. We have confused it.” most meaningful thing you ever said in this whole post . you have just completely forgotten everything you were defending with that stated statement “opinion” .. yeah and im the one who has an issue with truth
oooooo why all all the insults . not once have i insulted you sir . @dafunks, just because you do not understand my understanding and i do not understand yours . im pork? is that the way we are going now ? i thought we were all civilized people here. placing their thoughts and opinions . now my thoughts and opinions has been labeled as pork ? the one who created the post is the one with the least understanding of the subject? come on dafunks , are you serious? does my questions hurt your small mind which maybe has taken this long to develop at the age you are now? is it really that hard? or am i really not making any sense is what im saying really bogus , because i would really like to know. that is why i am here . to know . atleast try to know . shame on you dafunks. someone who tries to teach the student & gives up on the student should not try to teach … sorry had to change wont to do not , didnt like the “will not”
@howardholmes, What truth is it your looking for? Many truths exist.
When i mentioned WE i meant Human beings. I meant that we confuse the word truth. Like many words we it changes depending on who you talk to. It does have a simple meaning but many people add on many things to the word now.
Let’s take something that might typically be labeled as true: having unprotected sexual intercourse might sometimes lead to pregnancy. I act as if a possible consequence of unprotected sex is pregnancy. What difference does it make to me whether it is true? I am merely suggesting that the discussion of whether it really is true is irrelevant. Once I am willing to act upon a proposition, its truth is of no consequence. If we spend time arguing about how to label this proposition (true or untrue) then we are merely staking out bragging rights. If I understand science correctly this is the approach of science. They seek workable theories. They have no interest in considering any theory true. It accomplishes nothing to label a theory as true. It is irrelevant because if the theory works better than another, it is used. If it does not, it is discarded. It just seems to me that the label of Truth is just like so many other words that belong in church where we can laud them and worship them, but otherwise have no practical use.
I was asking about the “we” because it seems to get confusing when “we” comes into a discussion. I find that that when I use “we” I am merely talking about other people and trying to deflect from that fact by being falsely humble and saying we rather than they. After all if I say “we are confused.” I certainly don’t mean to include me in the we, so why do I say we?
” Once I am willing to act upon a proposition, its truth is of no consequence.”
This is untrue. If your acting upon something truth has 100% consequence. If your going to shoot someone but holding no gun then it matters. If your going to fly a plane but have no plane then reality will soon catch up. I could go on.
Truth has no say so in anything. It is true or untrue. Weather you wish it to be or not, it is one or the other. Even if truth has no impact on your… It is till true.
Just because you had unprotected sexual intercourse and may or may not have conceived is irrelevant. It is irrelevant if you care or not. Just because you decide not to care about it does not mean it is not happening. Truth has no mind or power. It just is what is true (Or not).
” If I understand science correctly this is the approach of science. They seek workable theories. They have no interest in considering any theory true.”
The whole point in science to find what is true. Science means “knowledge”. knowledge is knowing about what is real, true and fact. No one wants to know any knowledge that is untrue. The ultimate goal of knowledge to know and fully understand something.
Maybe some of science is not 100% proven true. The reason the continue to use it is because they hope that it will take them to the truth. If Science was nothing to do with truth then it would be of no use as no one would care. No one would have any use for it if nothing they did was using truth. If they could use anything then everything would break down.
“It just seems to me that the label of Truth is just like so many other words that belong in church where we can laud them and worship them, but otherwise have no practical use.”
Well I guess this depends on how you understand the word truth. Many people say “truth” for another meaning of “God”. I guess this truth that they talk of is Faith in something they think knows everything.
I see it differently. I see truth as something that is without a lie.
Maybe I am misunderstand you. I think your saying that Truth only has the goal of feeling superior?
My answer is. For humans maybe this is true. But for Truth that is irrelevant. How a human or anything wishes for the Truth or Fact to make them feel has no effect on it.