TRUTH please read

 ThatOfficialGuy (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 4 months ago

how do we know what truth is ? how do we know what we are told is true . how do we know that the language we speak is really the true language? is truth the origin ? or it truth the “re-constructed” when you look in the mirror how do you know that, what there is . really is there when your eyes cant even see the world for what it really is without the brain? what about numbers? if we couldnt speak supposedly as cavemen. how were these numbers brought about . feet, inches. height , size. why is this “word” that i reasearch give me this definition. the truth . what makes something true . is it because once something is established and created, &everyone comes to an agreement that this is what its going to be . that makes it true? religion , there are so many different religions how do you know which religion is the true religion . vitamins & minerals , elements , cells , were all founded and given a statement to which was brought to the other population and everyone decided if this is the way its going to be .. ever thought about how is the person you are with or just seen view life? is it dull are the colors as bright , how sharp are the edges . is anything blurred? the color blind , if a group of color blind babies were grown up distant from the rest of the world. learned everything the same as everyone else in normal society but the colors they see were true to them because they all agreed that this apple was purple and this grape was red? the hearing impaired may hear something else and say its true because theyve heard it this way . how can you really say anything is true or false? positive and negative , why is this side negative and why is this side positive? i hope i am explaining this correctly i dont want to come off as unintelligent or as to be making no sense . if i am please tell me . the truth , who can accurately determine what truth is , what is true and what is true when since from birth we are told this and we are told that . in america christian might be brought up as knowing this is the truth or if you eat this it is good for you , likewise in asia where their asian religion is told to be the truth , . as if you have a baby and tell a baby that drinking this soda will help you grow big and strong and milk is bad and will make your bones rotten , then until this baby reaches a higher conscious it will forever believe what it is told . just because you are told something it is true or false . once it is determined , it has to stay that way? i think not and has been proven , for years people believed the earth was flat . until you know who came along , now their truth is now false . what if in 100 yrs they figure out the earth is not round or flat , it is in curved in a spiral formation but the human eyes put it together in this shape (bogus trying to make a point) anti matter , matter . how we know something is there and not there . if i was sitting here and heard a voice and there is no one there . does that mean their are spirits or ghosts? just my mind playing tricks? or the neighbor was close to my thin walls and i heard one of his words spoken loudly , .. i can go on an on . but the main question i want to ask . what is truth , how do you define it , and if truth is truth then what is false , or lies to speak of ? if anyone can explain what my mind is trying to type feel free to add on or disagree with me , all feedback is welcome .

June 11, 2013 at 6:44 pm
MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 4 months ago ago

@thatofficialguy,

I’m only quoting you becuase it has been a couple of days and it looks like you have been busy on this thread.

“woah that some deep shit man , forreal that shit sound fuckin believable , so believable i had to use foul language lmao . i really like that definition too , nowhere on the internet could i find a definition like that .. you should consider trying to get that approved by the dictionary people if thats possible”

Reguarding your thoughts on my post, thanks. I postulated about what truth really was for a while and came to my own realization of what I think it is. The definition is something that came from that.

In relation to where you might find something similar and in relation to some of the other disccussions you have been having, I think you might be interested in the field of Epistomolgy. I was pretty happy when I found that that there exist a whole subject matter dedicated to things like this.

Taken from wikipedia(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology):

“Epistemology (Listeni/ɨˌpɪstɨˈmɒlədʒi/ from Greek ἐπιστήμη – epistēmē, meaning “knowledge, understanding”, and λόγος – logos, meaning “study of”) is the branch of philosophy concerned with the nature and scope of knowledge[1][2] and is also referred to as “theory of knowledge”. It questions what knowledge is and how it can be acquired, and the extent to which any given subject or entity can be known.”

I skimmed threw your discussions and it seems like you are not looking to find truth, but more along the lines of how someone can “know” truth. This is the goal of Epistemology and its many topics. Also, Epistemology is a branch of Philosophy. There might be other branches of Philosophy you might be interested in. I pretty much foucs on Epistemology and Metaphysics.

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ThatOfficialGuy (7) (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 4 months ago ago

@monkeyzazu, thank you !!! alot ! somebody that knows what i was trying to say , you put what i had in my mind into simpler terms . i appreciate that man ! “I skimmed threw your discussions and it seems like you are not looking to find truth, but more along the lines of how someone can “know” truth. ” yes this is correct but i am interested in truth ., but the problem is like you said how could i know that this is the truth . its not establishing a “truth” which is difficult . it is determining how this truth is “true” if that makes sense . the reason i am fascinated in this is because how far time goes back . & there are so many things that are kept from public records. and books of knowledge that was lost to time ., its just mind boggling . all i want is the origin , nothing more , nothing less. this a life quest that i think i will never find. unless there is a creator and this creator tell me itself. or aliens come and gives us some information . until then i can only come close , or near , maybe far . lol

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DaFunks (366)M (@Dafunks) 8 years, 4 months ago ago

@thatofficialguy, Sounds to me that you have your answer and you want to fit facts around it to make it fit. Do you really think if people showed you facts that differed from what you believe you would change your views…. By the look of this thread I do not see that.

Your waiting for Aliens or God… The truth is around us. It just takes lots of time and study to learn things. Its really fun to have your mind warped with new ideas of things you did not even understand before.

Looks like instead of TRUTH your looking for some sort of mythical truth with fantasy ideas behind it.

I am not trying to belittle you with this. You say your want Origin? Look into it. You can find so much in fossils, rocks and our own planet…. and by looking at space. We can see billions and billions of years into the origin of of our galaxy. We can even see to where everything started.
We can see new galaxies being born… and these happened Billions of years ago! We can only see it because it took that long for that light to get to us! That’s amazing. Its owe inspiring to see it with your own eyes.

You can find these things. You can ponder them, even ponder them with minds who know things we that would blow our minds. Get a telescope, its free to look at these things.

Just look. It is out here.

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 4 months ago ago

@thatofficialguy,

A longer reply is coming, but not right now. Just want to say 2 short things.

After all of my thought experiments and discussions with people on HE, I’m kinda starting to think awareness is more important than knowing or knowledge. How can I be sure I know something, without a doubt, for a fact? In order to know, I have to question knowing in and of itself. But awareness or being aware of something seems to be more reliable than knowledge. I’ll explain this more.

The last thing is a little thought experiment. If you cant see something, does that mean its not there? Whats behind you? Taking this deeper, If the only things you percieve come from your fives senses, how can you know if anything exist outside of “your” five senses?

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ThatOfficialGuy (7) (@thatofficialguy) 8 years, 4 months ago ago

@dafunks, see dafunks i like that you keep trying to say , diagnose/ ? what im trying to say . it makes me think about what comes out of my mouth and how it perceives against other minds. if perceive is the right word…but im not waiting for an outer space lifeform or a so called god. im looking towards another any other type of creature sorta say to be able to tell usabout how they view life other than human beings. as in , i really want to try to teach monkeys a valuable language we all can understand and get them to comprehend definition so they know what they are talking about , since monkeys are the closest to understanding humans.. think about it . them telling us their monkey gods. beliefs , morals . just thoughts in general. please dont go in to too much detail about this monkey topic if you wish to speak on it because i know about they are capapble f sign language and pictographs. that is why i said comprehend definition… but no i have not found my answer i dont think i will ever find my answer until i reach death or have a near death experience, maybe an out of body one? but still this does not confirm anything because i read before that this is just the brain sending chemicals through itself to escape from the aching pain off reality. but how does that explain it happening when not near deATH? i do not wish to put facts around it , because i am skeptical about facts and have a hard time believing anything . that is why i wrote this post and sibgned up for HE ..im fascinated with what i just learned from @monkeyzazu, because he is the closest person in my mind to come within the understanding of what im trying to understand and showed me that this mind of thinking i am not the only one and has be thought of before .not to say i did not know what the other fellow members were saying . but it was either doubt . orr a certain . and i am neither . i am or . in any debate in anything where you have to choose sides . i am or . in the middle . i defend none but both. .. yes i am interested in origin . i know that there are plenty things on our beautiful planet that can be learned and outer space. i study these things . i do alot of studying . but i am young no w. and the situation of my life at its current state is not for me too act on these things just yet . only to develop a deeper understanding for them . ve heard of this. that new glaxies are forming / have been formed . there are also univereses which have e en created and been formed before this.i wish to “learn” more about these things when the time is right… but one thing that has pondered my mind since i ve heard they claimed to see the edge of the universe and the begininng you say . its been on my mind since i was a toddler . whats behind it. or sorta say around it? when we figuered out our solar system was not the only one our minds were blown. what would happen if we were to step on the other side of our own universe? & thanks i forgot about telescopes .. i will be purchasing one very soon! lol. wish i could speak more about it but this pc is aggravting me with its slow typing response. that is why there are so manyaerrors so bare with me … yes monkey i have heard about this before . the awareness. its very confusing if you ask me , how to know if what you dont see is really there . i can come up with sooo many not to say theories . but thoughts about this . does your mind just make a mamory of what its seen and when it comes close to seein it it implicates and creates it before we have time not to see it? why when i turn around is the door still there then? if what we can not see can not be there . if i walk backwards will i not bump into another objecT? which comes to say again . howtdo we know anything past our 5senses? ive also heard that there is a 6th sense. you know that feeling when someone is staring at you ? you can feel it . its the sense that connects humans together i think . i seen an experiment where they were trying to get peopleoto read each other minds by concentrating very hard. they put ppl in a room 2. and had one close their eyes while the other said this word on a card over and over and over again in their head while staring very hard at the other person . some where able to guess the word correct others were not, 9myversion is short and simple may not be correct but is close 0…. awareness is a power powerful thing , i think so . its so powerful that the government tries to limit o ur self awareness with tv and games work, these illusions they portray etc . makes people forget about reality or just to amek them become less aware. blah blah . i hope i have explained myself well enough . i have a hard time doing that and having a hard time believing i am explaing myself good enough lol so you know . `! and just to be clear . i do not claim to know much , i do not claim to have the correct answer . i simply state the possibilities . nothing more . noihing less.

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DaFunks (366)M (@Dafunks) 8 years, 4 months ago ago

@thatofficialguy,

I think you need to stop thinking that anything your mind can think, come up with, dream of… is not always reality. Just because you may find something you do not understand or think is possible… it may not be. This is why so many people get caught up in conspiracies. They get so ocused on them that all facts and reality goes out the window.

But, some of your questions were very good. I took the time to write some answers but then found that others have answered them much better than me. Here is one (By Brian Cox)

If the universe started expanding with the Big Bang, what is it expanding into?

The current view, drawing on Einstein’s picture of the universe developed in 1915, is that space and time itself are stretching. Think of space being elastic; it warps and curves and actually that provides our best explanation of gravity.

What you’re seeing with gravity is the curvature of space caused by the presence of stars, planets and galaxies.

But the expansion of the universe is actually the expansion of space itself. In the past decade or two, we’ve found out that the rate of expansion is increasing and we think that it’s going to continue. Meaning that the rate of increase in the size of the universe is itself increasing. It’s an odd thought.

It’s a golden age for astronomy and cosmology. We’re finding out more every day because of the experiments that we’re doing. It’s an exciting time to be an astronomer.

This is an edited version of an article from the issue of Radio Times magazine that went on sale 10 January 2012.

(Check out the full post)
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2012-01-18/stargazing-live-professor-brian-cox-answers-your-questions

Monkeys and other animals that are related to us most probably would never be able to think like we do. We split from these species way before we developed speech and thoughts like we have today. Many things that make us Human were developed LONG after we left out Ape friends behind. They do use sign language… but they would find it very hard to even talk and communicate like we do.

I would say the only hope we have of ever speaking to another species is maybe Dolphins. monkeys and other Apes (not us) think in a complete different way to us. Even if they could form speech (Which they can’t)… I very much doubt we would ever be able to understand them.
All animals think different from us. We form most of out thoughts with our own understandings that come from language. They would think in pictures and feelings…They also have a different knowledge to us.

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 4 months ago ago

@thatofficialguy,

Sorry it took so long to get back to this thread. My time is not my own. I’m pretty busy with other stuff right now. Even as I write this I’m pretty tired… I kinda forgot what I wanted to say, so I”ll just expand and explain my last post more.

Like I said before, I think truth is something like a relative consistent context. People see truth as a consistentcy. Relative to the context at hand, what is consistent? When something is “true” you logically deduce whether or not everything matches up with what your percieving things to be.

Truth is something we deduce and conclude using our logic and reason, but the data being processed by our logic and reason comes from our senses. How do we know our senses can be trusted? How do we know that we are actually using all of our senses to percieve something? How do we know that there isn’t something outside of our senses that we aren’t percieveing? Thats where I was getting at with the thought experiment from my earlier post. A person with 4 senses, say a blind person or a deaf person, will never have the same truth as a person with 5 senses. A person with 5 senses, most people, will never have the same truth as a person with 6 senses. And so on.

To picture the ideas I put forth better, I ask you to watch these short little vids. The first one is a scene from the movie Dark Star. The guy is trying to convince a super computer why it shouldn’t explode. The second video is an animation of the philosopher Plato’s “Allegory of the Cave”:

Dark Star – Bomb 20 Conversation (Audio is bad on this vid)

Plato’s “Allegory of the Cave”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E13Jyi1C2m4

I hope those vids gave you a more visual understanding of what I’m trying to convey.

Talking more about awareness, you can always question your knowledge, but your awareness seems to be more solid. Someone on HE told me you can always question your experiences, but you can’t deny that you are experiencing them. It was something like that. I think it was from trek if I remember correctly.

Also Rene Descartes “I think therefore I am” relates to this. It trys to conclude that the only thing a conscious being can be certain of is their own existence and nothing else. There are alot more philosophers and topics to discuss when it comes to truth and epistemology. I also suggest looking up Immanuel Kant’s theories. I have yet to actually read in depth any of his works, but he has alot of good stuff too from what I’ve heard and seen.

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