This video that @jaethedream posted talks about the venus project and how we can create a new world that is based on a resource based economy. It is very interesting and I like the ideas that were put forth in this video.
I wanna know your thoughts about the video and your thoughts about the current social and government systems that are in place.
One thought I had while watching this, was if this current soical system never existed, it wouldn’t of gave birth to this man’s resource based economy idea. So in a way, isn’t this system kind of good in the way that it helps to make new, more efficient ideas of better systems?
If this resource based economy idea took place, could it in time produce another system like the one that we currently have? What if people start to think again that we should provide a type of payment for the resources that we are being given?
@monkeyzazu, I like the idea of a resource based economy, but for it to be even considered the system as we know it must collapse, but if that happened then the feudal remnants of this system would wage war on any efforts made to install a resource based economy. In short, it cannot be done with humanity in its current cultural situation, with individuals in their current life philosophy.
@trek79, The guy in the vid, his name is Jacque Fresco, he actually says something along those lines. He said something like the way things are now, his idea cant really happen unless this system is demolished first. He also said that this system would demolish itself overtime if people stopped feeding it or something. It was a little bit more than that, but I think that was the jist of it.
@monkeyzazu, I think it is inevitable that civilization and our society consciousness will naturally evolve into this or a similar situation, but that evolution will take some time. The first main step in this process is for every individual to recognize what exactly it is that makes their life worthwhile and what it is costing them and the world to embrace that meaning.
This line of thought has to go mainstream, changing the system does not change a thing if the basis for that system, the human beings, do not change. I like the saying “Think globally, act locally” this can be adapted to each of us. We make ourselves into the vision that we seek.
When we look externally for solace we will always be let down, peace of mind is a structure we build internally. This is not to say seek apathy but the opposite, when you achieve that state, others will benefit and they seek it themselves. When all find it there becomes nothing to be apathetic, or empathetic, about.
I say “True freedom is in self-control, nothing more and nothing less” this kind of core change in human nature would need to be the standard life philosophy before society could naturally evolve into the Venus Project world.
@monkeyzazu, there is always good in the bad and bad in the good. They coexist and create each other; there wouldn’t be better or good if there wasn’t worse or bad. This idea of a better way to live is definitely the result of the way we currently and have been living. Every aspect of it is directly related to and a response to the flaws of this society. And that’s the essence of progression: We make/ do something, eventually recognize the flaws, make changes to negate such flaws, repeat.
I don’t think we’ll ever move back to the current system but maybe incorporate certain aspects of it. It’s all a matter of the knowledge and perspective the collective minds of a society possess and utilizes (and thus, every society is unique to some degree).
This is ultimately in the direction we are heading. The main tenets from what I am aware are the following;
– Economy: Infinite Growth to Steady-state
– Business: Competition to Collaboration
– Markets: Dispersed to Planned
– Work: Human Labor to Automation
– Property and Money: Private Property/Currency to Strategic Access
– Government: Lawyers/Politicians to Technocrats/Scientists/People
– Product Design: Planned Obsolescence (i.e. new product models every year) to Strategic Design/Long-lasting Products
I’ll debate anyone into a fetal position who disagrees with the above tenets.
As for defenders of Capitalism, this is its true face –
“I create nothing, I own”
@KoMaCarpe, It wouldn’t take a global crisis, all we need is time for global consciousness, global conscientiousness, global conscience, to mainstream and for humanity to start identifying, understanding and using certain awareness.
I think a big part of it is to accept that each person, each child, has unique learning needs and we need to start custom tailoring education to suit those special needs. In a lot of cases, kids are educated under a one size fits all policy but many children are not cut out for those methods, infact I believe very few are cut out for it.
So we really need some kind of education revolution, where expert educators can formulate a vast variety of learning avenues designed to suit the personalities and unique capabilities of each kid, a system that has flexibility to adapt to maximize the effort to absorption ratio.
Then you have the actual content of education, we should be sure we are liberating their thinking, free-thinking with an appropriate understanding of subjectivity. You need to be sure education is not cementing the mind, conditioning people culturally and educationally is little more than a method of slavery and ensuring docility, compliance in the masses.
@nakedape, i do not think you have thought through your tenets very well.
Technically you did help make the product possible buy purchasing it.
Can you explain your disdain for capitalism or does your view spawn from a lack of want…to do anything. your collaboration business model, planned market, and strategic access to what was private property sound to me like model to slavery and failure.
“i do not think you have thought through your tenets very well.”
Which aspect? I can elaborate further.
“Technically you did help make the product possible buy purchasing it.”
Is this a question? If so, you will have to be more specific to what you are referring to.
“Can you explain your disdain for capitalism or does your view spawn from a lack of want…to do anything. your collaboration business model, planned market, and strategic access to what was private property sound to me like model to slavery and failure.”
My disdain for Capitalism stems from the fact that it is no longer relevant as an economic system. Naturally certain aspects of it are worse than others, namely.. Fractional reserve banking and our debt based monetary system, wealth inequality, competition vs collaboration, induced scarcity, inefficiency, unsustainability, degradation to our mental and physical health, destruction to our planet, poverty, war, crime… The list goes on my friend.
@trek79, I agree with you when it comes to our educational system failing but I still believe that every radical change comes through some sort of crisis. Our current consciousness seems to be very under developed as the majority of the people can’t even grasp the concept of karma (action and reaction). When I ocasionally talk about karma with people they almost ridicule the idea and rather think of it as luck or unluck – in order to let go of all the responsibility.
The universe is right now trying to make us aware of our counter productive and destructive way of living by sending out all sorts of signals of disaster approaching (hurricanes, earth quakes, tsunamis, unemployment, scarcity of water and food, pollution, epidemics etc). We’re not listening. People, generally, don’t give a damn. For a higher state of mind to occure I believe we will have to reach a point where we have a global crisis of some sort. After that, we can and will start to rebuild our society and system.
@KoMaCarpe, I don’t debate that, it is looking very much like a physical crisis is heading our way, be that climate change or an economic collapse. But those are the crisis results of ignoring the intellectual crisis we face right now, I think every crisis is but a result of our falling short of mastery over ourselves and the cause/effect universe.
edit; The thing is, with no mastery of the self, no self-control, then mastery over the cause and effect universe is futile, because we will know how everything works and how to get the optimal benefit from it all but we will use that knowledge for personal gain rather than for the optimal benefit.
This has always been true, even in cases where we are completely lacking in understanding of the cause and effect universe, our biggest crisis has arisen from lack of self-control.
My quote of the day, sourced of this discussion: “Even if we have no understanding of the cause and effect universe, our greatest crisis will always stem first from a lack of self-control, but understanding the cause and effect universe in combination with that lack of self-control will equate to the greatest possible crisis”
(note; even if it is not our own personal lack of self-control, it is a lack of self-control at some point, of someone, that it always originates)