Was Hitler Right?

Jack Kenealy (@jkenealy127) 8 years, 12 months ago

Was Hitler kind of right? And did he just go about it the wrong way? Ive been learning a lot about evolution in one of my high school classes and have been pondering a lot about human evolution specifically. Are humans and their minds so evolved that we can accelerate our own evolution and/or genetic selection. i know that killing people is wrong and hitler was a terrible man ,but is there anyway we could accelerate this process to help future generations. Is modern medicine and technology slowing this process by allowing less “fit” people to survive and reproduce and thus creating offspring. Haha what if we took the warning labels off stuff and let this problem work itself out. Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.

January 29, 2013 at 10:13 pm
Dan (10) (@scew) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

Honestly I believe the next step in evolution for us won’t come from nature, but from ourselves . . . this already has happened if you know where to look.

Two great examples are the airplane and the submarine. Both inventions of human ingenuity both considered to be evolution to other species. Ha, no other species haven’t built planes or submarines, but we built them so we could fly and go way further into water than any one person could physically manage.

But like a lot of things, these are just cast aside as inventions, not evolution. The fact is that evolution stems from a need for change in the environment and being the dominant species on Earth, the only things left to fight are disease, nature, and death itself.

Why not invent things to deal with those as well, killing people kills ideas so my view on this Original Post is that no, Hitler was a monster and the people he killed could potentially have been future scientists and leader that could have brought a new era of human “evolution.” Unfortunately we won’t ever know.

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Matthew (16) (@tweibaby) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

Wow! I see that basically everyone overshot the actual question just to point out how bad Hitler was (which always happens when Hitler is mentioned)

The truth is, our human genetics are actually deteriorating.. Now, a majority of humans spend most of their lives sitting still in confined spaces, eating highly processed foods, and getting little mental stimulation. Also their immune systems are held up on crutches by a vast array of pharmaceuticals..

100 years ago, alot of these humans would have died, due to their weaker genome, but now they are able to reproduce, spawning more humans with weaker genomes..

The problem is, people dont like it when you tell them they are weak, so most will refute what I have said..
Also, its difficult to morally separate those with good genes from those without. I know I happen to have very good genes, am a healthy and intelligent individual, and I look for the same traits when seeking a relationship, so I also think thats a way that those with good genes will continue to flourish..

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Sugar Magnolia (375) (@melissaurban1991) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@jkenealy127 nobody is ever “wrong” if they are doing what they truly believe is “right”. hitler truly believed he was doing the right thing for his country and his people. is genocide the answer? of course not. but do a little research and see that the United States originally funded Hitler in his endeavors. how many followers did he have? maybe he did have some psychological issues but how was he to know it was “wrong” when so many people were behind him?

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Sugar Magnolia (375) (@melissaurban1991) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@tweibaby, just yes.

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Devon (19) (@devonalixandra) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@jkenealy127 I wouldnt let Darwinism work itself out. That’s what your proposing, right? Let the strong survive and reproduce and the weak die off and never pass on their genes? I can see this only in the light of mental capacity, but like @treck79 said, your biology is not a really true and trusted indicator of how intelligent your offspring will be. I have thought about this Hitler idea as well and I saw the perks of it. But, as @the1paula said, their IS a hierarchy of jobs for those who are best fit in this society.
Also, have you not benefited from the health care given to you? I was born a premature baby because of my parents’ abusive relationship and had to be on oxygen as a newborn for quite a few months because my lungs weren’t fully developed. Should I have been kicked right off the Merry-Go-Round of Life because of this?
Like I said, I’d like to believe this but we have all benefited from the health system if only by the immunizations we received as toddlers. Yes, the strong should survive, but in our society, the strong excel. And strong doesn’t mean by muscular strength, I believe strong means intelligence and drive mixed with ability. Trust me, the social hierarchy kind of does this for us.

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Zykanthos (4,757)M (@chodebalm) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

Your topic title will certainly draw attention.

Well played.

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

@devonalixandra, If the strong are so fucking strong, why do they bitch about the weak all the time? Strength is in compassion, consideration and collaboration, without the weak the strong wouldn’t have a job.

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hulklol (352) (@hulklol) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

Its funny how everyone sees Hitler as the devil, I mean there have been tons of massacres in the world, but why do people only remember what Hitler did? Wasn’t the murder of million of Native-Americans and South Americans worst? Wasn’t the Cold War, the war between Israel and Palestine worst? Wasn’t the Inquisition and the Holy War worst? Wasn’t the massacres done by the Ku Klux Klan worst?
And what about the modern day-slavery? The environmental damage that has killed millions of species? The extreme conditions that some people live today, where they die of curable diseases and malnutrition?
We should think about that. I am not claiming that what Hitler did was good at all, I am just saying that there have been other massacres that we should not forget.

Now. About the topic. Hitler was not right, as the Ku Klux Klan wasn’t right, as the Anti-homosexuals aren’t right and as any ideology or philosophy that claims that one human being is better than another for x or y reason isn’t right. Everyone in the earth has come here for one reason, and has something to give back. We should not confuse IQ with Intelligence.

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pat (169) (@epath) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

You need to study a bit more

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Shivvy (86) (@shivvy) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

Can’t say Hitler was necessarily ”wrong”, his ideas were backed up by a lot of intelligent scientists due to the fact that Darwinism was all the rage back then (and I guess it still is, although it has come under fire as of late). All he was trying to do was create the best possible species of man that he could; he was after a utopia-esque society and was doing everything he could do achieve that goal. Of course the things he did were inhumane, but all he was doing was going along with Darwinism.

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Matt P (16) (@mkp843) 8 years, 12 months ago ago

How can we evolve when our bodies when we get shit for food, crappy information, and shitty choices… That comes from the top down.. elitest thinking sucks in my opinion. Hitler was a douchbag.. funded by the rothschilds family.. who currently own you!!! Not literally, but almost..

I have enough faith in ppl that when given enough freedom, and proper information, that things wouldn not be complete chaos… I could be wrong tho, however I still have faith in mankind.. not so much in it’s rulers

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El Duderino (29) (@eldude) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@jkenealy127,

Sigh. It seems like only a few people took the time to actually read your question. OBVIOUSLY Hitler was an evil dude and killing people is wrong. That being said, you do bring up a good point about whether we as a society/species should try to take the reigns and guide our own evolution in a “stronger” direction.

This concept is called eugenics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics, and it has had a long history in American society pretty much ever since Darwin wrote the origin of species. Without going into too much detail, I’ll give you a few things to think about. But first just as a warning: be careful if you’re actually going to explore the subject further, it is pretty easy to slip into racist pseudoscience before you even realize it, and many people have an intense knee jerk reaction against the topic as a whole. Anyways…

1) “Eugenics” can be split into 2 main categories – Positive and Negative.

Positive Eugenics involves trying to increase the number of “fit” people in your population i.e. offering ppl with exceptional IQ’s government subsidies to have more children, genetic modification, etc.

Negative Eugenics involves trying to decrease the number of “unfit” people in your population. Examples of this include sterilizing convicted rapists, genetic screening before conception to avoid certain recessive gene matches, aborting fetuses with genetic disorders, and of course racial cleansing/genocide/holocaust.

Do any of these seem ok to you? Where do you draw the line?

2) The founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, was a vocal proponent of eugenics. It is unclear whether she really believed in it or just wanted to piggyback on its popularity at the time in order to advance her true interest in Women’s Rights… but it is interesting to think about the population-scale genetic impact of low-cost birth control/abortions/etc. Here is a quote from her:

“Eugenics aims to arouse the enthusiasm or the interest of the people in the welfare of the world fifteen or twenty generations in the future. On its negative side it shows us that we are paying for and even submitting to the dictates of an ever increasing, unceasingly spawning class of human beings who never should have been born at all—that the wealth of individuals and of states is being diverted from the development and the progress of human expression and civilization.”

3) Don’t forget the historical context for all of this (late 19th/early 20th century) – America was growing at an incredible rate due to massive immigration that came in different waves from different parts of the world, so everyone was freaked out and nationalism/racism/xenophobia influenced everything

4) Do kids in high school these days read Freakonomics? If not definitely check it out – the connection between Roe v. Wade and falling crime rates is interesting stuff.

In my opinion, a lot of this boils down to your belief in America (or the World I guess) as a meritocracy. I think it is a generally accepted fact that birth rates decline with increasing socioeconomic status, as evidenced by simple demographic analysis. As such, the question now becomes looking at the connection between genetics and money – on one hand it is certainly logical to think that people who are inherently smarter/better/whatever have been more successful throughout the centuries, resulting in an upper class that is generally smarter/better/whatever, but I think there is also a lot to be said for the fact that a lot of rich people have been dumb as shit for a long time and only hold their position by manipulating the system, and a lot of successful people are successful more because of their upbringing and circumstances than the strength of their genes.

Sorry for the long post, everybody feel free to resume your Hitler-bashing. Fuck that guy.

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Alex (551) (@hollowinfinity) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

Before I really put my two cents into this issue, has anyone here really studied mythology before? If you have, then you realize that in all great mythos, there is the sacrifice of a bunch of people for a greater good. There is always a hero figure, and a villain. If we can narrow down Hitler as a villain, then who or what is the hero? The nuclear bomb? Maybe..it did create more world peace.

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Nick (554) (@splashartist) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@season, Not sure exactly what your trying to say. Of course there’s a glimmer of light in every person, but that does NOT make Hitlers actions okay. What he did was completely disgusting. If my post grinded your gears it’s not my problem. It was definitely a joke, I would never hit anyone unless it was out of self defense. Maybe you read in to my post with too much analysis.

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Jack Kenealy (23) (@jkenealy127) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@the1paula, i understand that but i think so our society will soon be so evolved that mundane tasks such as that could be automated and accomplished by robotic systems

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Jack Kenealy (23) (@jkenealy127) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, no offense but based off your name I’m guessing that you have a pretty narrow perspective on things. If you hear Hitler than you already cross if off it off as a negative. try to be more open minded with this

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Jack Kenealy (23) (@jkenealy127) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@boribori90, i not suggesting homocide, genocide or any sort of “cide” i curious to see if there is ways that we can evolve in more humane ways

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Anonymous (2,833) (@) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@jkenealy127, Lol.

Try to be a bit more open minded with the thread title, yeah?
“Was the mass slaughter of jews a good idea?”
sounds like a 4chan title…

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Nick (554) (@splashartist) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@ijesuschrist, I agree, maybe he did it to generate a lot of traffic. If so, it was fairly successful.

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sparkinthehusk (1) (@sparkinthehusk) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@jkenealy127, I would never say Hitler was right, as his motives were fueled by hate and greed. Eugenics, however, probably started with well-intentioned origins. I think the bottom line here is that we understand as a species that it’s time to evolve beyond our current state of instability. As much as we are oriented in our culture to make as broad a change as possible as quickly as possible, society is made up of individuals. In order for us all to change, we each have to change.

The fastest, most direct method of evolution that I have found is meditation. It is the practice that goes directly to the source of our dissonance and neutralizes our imbalances. I cannot recommend it highly enough. As meditation changes my inner world, the outer physical and intellectual aspects follow suit. I’m a big believer that this evolutionary offshoot is inevitable. May we all work sincerely for that ends.

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E.C.F. Doyle (346) (@chekovchameleon) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@hollowinfinity, I suppose if Hitler’s the villain then Churchill is the hero, or the UK, considering that the UK probably done the worst out of the war (excluding Japan), and also that they invested the most into it. Selfless sacrifice, sort of. Just a thought.

I find it interesting that so many people hate Hitler. Not that I agree with his actions, but everybody tries to separate themselves from the Nazis and puts them on a level different from their own. They were humans, no different from you and I. In fact I think Nazi Germany is the greatest social experiment ever. It essentially proved that the majority of people are fucking morons who will believe anything provided they are told it enough times and that everybody else seems to believe it.
And how come Harry S. Truman never gets any shit. He allowed the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, to end a war that the US started. It is like when you see the big guy provoking the little guy until the little guy makes a floundering attempt of assault and ends up hanging from a flag pole by his underwear.
Social conditioning my friends is a powerful thing.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@jkenealy127,

logically, sure, makes sense, betterment of the species and all that, emotionally, i think not, we tend to get pretty bent over the brutal slaying of innocents, both would have to be considered because both dictate our reality, the reality both in and outside our head,

i think the real question is, what kind of world would we create? a world full of people who accept the destruction of their own species for genetic inferiorities as a way of life, i am assuming here, but without the illogical idea of love, mankind would have never had a reason to care about anything other than themselves and therefore would never have evolved, we are strong because we are a social species and advancement has come from all parts of the human spectrum, from the healthy to the unhealthy,

the concept of offing people seems contradictory to being loving, it would change the minds worldwide to this unloving state once the concept was accepted as ‘reality’,

united we stand? this has been the human story, the more united we become the more powerful and wonderful things evolve towards, Hitler’s option was purely based on logic, the mind of a man who hides, and seemed more like an excuse for doing what he did.

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@eldude,

very detailed, thank you, what is your opinion? i think you are correct about idiots abound, it does not matter the monetary status, i think this proves success does not equal money, nor do genetics, consider stephen hawking,

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Tine (366) (@tine) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@eldude,

in the case of the two types of eugenics, i try to put myself in the mind of someone who would set something like that in motion, i try to consider how i would have to view human life to make those kind of decisions and what this would mean about how superior i felt,

i am just playing the semantic game, but i don’t like the word positive, maybe eugenics,( vanilla ), because there is nothing positive about rigging the race of life for ‘favorites’ to run,

well… i guess, at least they are attempting to hide what they are doing.. clearly out of respect for the populace, of course.

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Anonymous (328) (@) 8 years, 11 months ago ago

@melissaurban1991, Fuckin yes, there’s more to it than just Hitler and the Nazis. That in this modern day there really is no innocent country, of course only if they wanted you to know how full of shit your country is. Just like the U.S. in every war ever.

@hulklol, Agree. In history, it’s human nature to murder each other. Animals do that. We are just apes playing with new toys. It’s about due time for another one to happen, though real human evolution would mean none of that. Something tells m wee are so far from it.

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