What are Hethens take on these quotes?

 Daniel (@qwuakeup)8 years, 6 months ago

To me this proves there’s something more than this physical reality – and points out the source of all things being merely this unknown yet powerful force that pervades all space/time. But I could be blind to other points of view due to what I’ve experienced (throughHallucinogenics and Psychedelics) and beliefs.

“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force… We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter. ”
-Max Planck

“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve. ”
-Max Planck

“As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”
-Max Planck

“Deep down the consciousness of mankind is one. This is a virtual certainty because even in the vacuum matter is one; and if we don’t see this, it’s because we are blinding ourselves to it.”
– David Bohm

“Consciousness is much more of the implicate order than is matter . . . Yet at a deeper level [matter and consciousness] are actually inseparable and interwoven , just as in the computer game the player and the screen are united by participation.”
-David Bohm

January 5, 2013 at 4:48 pm
rwinn (2) (@wantliveson) 8 years, 6 months ago ago

I think anyone serious about truth has to accept there are just as many (if not more) world class scientists who do not accept there is a higher intelligence behind existence as there are those that do. The opinions and beliefs of Planck & Bohr are just that. Modern science seems to have moved more in the direction of random chance. And insights gained from use of drugs?

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 8 years, 6 months ago ago

“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force… We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter. ”
-Max Planck

This is just a theory, not a fact. I like it though, but it still doesn’t prove anything or even elaborate on the matter, nor is there any factual basis for the claim.

“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve. ”
-Max Planck

Same goes for this one. It’s just an assumption, a jumped conclusion, an empty claim. Also, us being part of the mystery doesn’t mean we can’t figure it out. Know thyself and all that jazz.

“As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”
-Max Planck

We must not assume that, because there is no incentive or evidence, not even solid logic behind it.
As for the force, why do people assume that it isn’t just the “matter” itself. Matter is as real as it gets, even though it’s technically just waves or light or whatever you wanna call it. The force and the wave are probably one and the same.
Why must there be a mind behind everything? That’s just an empty claim with no foundation or basis in reality.

I like the idea, but there is no reason to believe (or disbelieve) it. You don’t know what you don’t know.
Besides, this is not a new idea, this kind of stuff has been around for millennia. Hermetics and masons are good examples of people who preach this theory, and they’ve been around since before the rise of Egypt, probably a lot longer.

“Deep down the consciousness of mankind is one. This is a virtual certainty because even in the vacuum matter is one; and if we don’t see this, it’s because we are blinding ourselves to it.”
– David Bohm

No. This is inverse rationalization. There is no evidence or foundation for this, it’s just a theory pulled out of thin air. That’s why none of the people who preach it ever elaborate or explain or even show some logical process for these conclusions.

It’s a nice idea, but there is nothing indicating that it’s true. As such, believing in it is foolish and deluded.

“Consciousness is much more of the implicate order than is matter . . . Yet at a deeper level [matter and consciousness] are actually inseparable and interwoven , just as in the computer game the player and the screen are united by participation.”
-David Bohm

Same thing goes for this one as well. Just claims with no evidence or basis in reality. It’s theory, creative imagination, projection, not observation of factual reality.
If I play a computer game, I’m not united with the screen, I’m just watching it. I’m not directly interacting with the screen beyond observation, just pushing buttons and triggering scripts.

The theories are nice and interesting, just like science fiction. And just like science fiction, it’s based in an understanding of science that’s entirely fictional.

It’s pseudo-science. It’s not really science. And it doesn’t prove anything.

Nice theories though.

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Marc (0) (@Marc-Carazo) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

You said,

“It’s a nice idea, but there is nothing indicating that it’s true. As such, believing in it is foolish and deluded.”

But you sound like the foolish and deluded one.

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Manimal (2,998) (@manimal) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

I may seem that way to you, and that is due to your ideological beliefs. It does not mean anything, mate.

You’re free to think what you want. Have fun being a hater :)

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rwinn (2) (@wantliveson) 8 years, 6 months ago ago

Came across this quote from a work of fiction & it seemed to strike me as being full of truth: “The soul is not yours; it belongs to the world.”
Pretty awesome, I say.

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Daniel (316) (@qwuakeup) 8 years, 6 months ago ago

Excellent replies. I guess the truth is personal.

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Daniel (316) (@qwuakeup) 8 years, 6 months ago ago

@wantliveson, Can you provide any example? Quotes etc

My theory on drugs is that they not only gave me insight, but they gave me a taste of what is more than us. They gave me a glimpse. That glimpse then inspired me to look at other works, documentaries, books, religions, theories etc and then coming full circle in conclusion to the “similarities” but yet different sources of insight.

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Daniel (316) (@qwuakeup) 8 years, 6 months ago ago

@manimal, From what you said if I understand correctly – at the end of the day we don’t know?

These great quantum physicists are merely stating theory as truth? Why?

What separates me from most so-called atheists is a feeling of utter humility toward the unattainable secrets of the harmony of the cosmos. (Albert Einstein to Joseph Lewis, Apr. 18, 1953)

“The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.” – Einstein

“Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.
– Niels Bohr

““A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. ” – Einstein

Also Manimal, what’s your take on our thoughts and our consciousness? Do you think they are seperated? As in, do you think the thoughts we have are something we do or just something that happens?

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Ray Butler (1,423)M (@trek79) 8 years, 6 months ago ago

@qwuakeup, There are factors about the universe that can be described by mathematical formulas but the equations and the quantum physics they represent are two completely different things. An example is E=MC2, the Einstinian equation that leads us to nuclear fission, the formula written on a piece of paper is vastly different from the engineering application, we didn’t bomb Hiroshima and Negasaki with a piece of paper.
Anyway, the point is that we have the Golden Ratio, the Fibonacci sequence and Phi in nature. These are equations used in quantum physics that when combined result in an infinite variable. When you are looking at an infinite variable, the cause and effect chainreaction that results in the universe as we know it become inevidable.
We presume that the manifestor behind the universe is either intelligent or a fluke of nature, it is neither but is also both, infinity is complete and we fail to grasp the true meaning of the infinite, because to be able to do that our minds would have to be infinite themselves.
Now our consciousness may well be infinite and on this level we do understand but on the level of the chemical/electrical material processes of our brains, we are limited to the sum of that matter. If we can find a way the physically merge with every “atomic” and energy phenomena of the universe then understanding the infinite may be possible. But the easier way is not by doing this, but by regressing to the non-local/non-linear consciousness level where such a link already exists.

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Marc (0) (@Marc-Carazo) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

That is awesome! 

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Anonymous (60) (@) 8 years, 6 months ago ago

@qwuakeup, many times quotes are used as fallacious appeals to authority, or even taken out of context. Some very bright people in the past have believed questionable things (e.g., Isaac Newton). They may have contributed to certain fields, but that does not make them an expert on everything.

It’s not impossible for there to be supernatural things. However, quantum mechanics does not prove many people’s claims. People often jump to inappropriate conclusions.

Quotes are fine in moderation, but I’d that suggest that you go easy on them, track down what sources they came from (and actually READ them), and check to see if the person you’re quoting is justified in making a certain claim.

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Marc (0) (@Marc-Carazo) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

How do I know you’re justified in the claim you just made?

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Anonymous (177) (@) 8 years, 6 months ago ago

I’d say it’s pretty awesome too! Thank-you for sharing. I would agree that it’s not ours as if we can possess it somehow, though we seem to think we are superior and can be and do anything. We aren’t and we can’t. Think of our existence as pure universe: as blended into the universe. It is us and we are it. There is no separation anywhere. ALL is one. We ARE one with Nature, all creatures, even the rocks and trees. This human body we move around in is not our true nature, our true Self. Peace, Love & Light ~ ricky

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