What is Real?

Thus Spoke Haze (@ehsan) 8 years, 8 months ago

If my perception and the way I see things does not dictate what is reality, then which is the actual reality? My perceptive reality or the reality from which I create my own?

March 26, 2013 at 2:59 pm
Anonymous (214) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@ehsan, our free will allows us to decide for ourselves

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DaJetPlane (994)M (@lytning91) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

I ride the line of there being a very delicate mix of our subjective perception of the world guided smoothly by an absolute presence within the world, both of which combine to occupy all aspects of space and time.

Real is what you believe it to be, and supported by what is.

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PRAKASH (236) (@lesterxp) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@ehsan, Everything is the mind. But there is no such thing as the mind. That is Real,

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Thus Spoke Haze (102) (@ehsan) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@lytning91, awesome answer.

When do our differing degrees of perception stray so much that insanity ensues?

@lesterxp, everything is in the mind, but there is no mind, therefore everything is nowhere or nothing is anywhere.

Would you care to explain further?

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Thus Spoke Haze (102) (@ehsan) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

.

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Anonymous (68) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@ehsan, everything

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PRAKASH (236) (@lesterxp) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@ehsan, You just did explain it better than I could. Everything is nowhere and nothing is anywhere. Everything is nothing. Infinite.
The mind can only produce concepts. Concepts are not real, they are only projections in the mind. Mind itself is a self defining concept. Outside of concepts what is there? Everything and nothing as one not two.
One cannot know what is real. One can only know concepts. The Real is not known it is experienced by dropping all the concepts.

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Anonymous (68) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@ehsan, perception is interpretation of reality. you can never know absolute ‘thruth’. thats is why everything is true.

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Anonymous (177) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

you are not the reflections in the mirror, but the mirror

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Anonymous (214) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@lesterxp, Damn. That’s some deep sh*t right there lol

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PRAKASH (236) (@lesterxp) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@rickyferdon, If you are not the reflection, but the mirror, then what is reflecting in you?

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DaJetPlane (994)M (@lytning91) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@ehsan, I’m afraid that I can only hypothesize on that, being that insanity is a very subjective experience in that, while you perceive things to be as they are, people around you insist you are perceiving incorrectly.

To know how that feels would and survive it would mean I could actually inform someone.

If I had to venture a guess, I would say insanity comes from your subjective experience being so unscripted that it interferes with your free will and ability to reflect upon what it is you are experiencing in any given moment.

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Thus Spoke Haze (102) (@ehsan) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@lesterxp, Would you agree with Descartes’ famous line, cogito ergo sum?

Also, can you define what you mean when you use the world “real”? To help me further understand.

@bono95zg, I agree with your definition fo perception. For our purposes, let’s define truth as the “absolute reality,” unaffected by our perceptions, do you agree?

Have you read much about Plato’s Forms? What you describe sounds very similar to Plato’s Ideas in that we can never perceive the “truth.” You also claim that despite being unable to perceive the truth we are still aware of what truth is. Can you explain this?

@rickyferdon, Interesting, and who are the reflections?

@lytning91, Then perhaps we are all insane, but it is the insanity of the many, and not the few, which is accepted as a reality.

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DaJetPlane (994)M (@lytning91) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@ehsan, Let me amend my statement and, instead, say this: insanity comes from your subjective experience not meshing appropriately with the structural backbone that is the absolute. A disharmony between these two leads to a strange state of being, unintended for the mind. It causes a collapse, as our mind struggles to get a grip in an infinite void of subjectivity.

No absolute to pin our subjectivity too, we’re left constantly reeling without guidance.

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Anonymous (68) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@ehsan, since we cant reach that truth, you can call everything true because we are all equaly false but cant see how false since cant reach absolute truth. :P

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Anonymous (68) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@ehsan, and yes its something like upgrade on Platos Forms :P

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Thus Spoke Haze (102) (@ehsan) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@lytning91, I can agree with that. However, the question then comes back to what is absolute and what is not. How can we be certain that our perception is not already the victim of a limitless subjectivity and has any ground in the “absolute?”

@bono95zg, I see. Let me see if you can help me figure this out then. If a child were taught to call a cow a “dog”, and a dog a “cow” then whenever this child was questioned on the matter he would be perplexed whenever someone refers to these animals by appropriate names. This child would think the others were insane because of what he had been taught. Would the child be considered insane because their perceived reality is slightly offset to everyone else’s?

Some might argue that “a rose by any name smells just as sweet,” and as such a cow by any name is still a cow, such a distinction is already seen in differing languages. However, let us define what perception is: The way we understand and process information from the sensory world, agreed? By this definition then, the child has a skewed perception of reality because of what he had been taught.

Is this child any more or less insane then a person who is hallucinating and living in a different “reality?”

At this, some might say that you can merely teach the child what the correct names of the animals were, but the question is not whether or not the skewed perception can be adjusted. In fact, if any were to raise this question they would have already admitted that, at the time of the child’s ignorance, the child was indeed suffering from an altered perception and skewed reality.

Is our perception any different from this child who had been taught incorrectly? If our sensory experiences, or the child’s parents in the example above, are subjective to begin with the only way we can be certain of our perception is if it is grounded in an “absolute” reality from which we draw our perceptions. This of course is assuming that there is an absolute reality.

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Anonymous (68) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@ehsan, because people dont realize this concept or philosophy or whatever this is, they would consider that child insane. but child is as corect as them.

the child and are equaly insane, ie not insane at all

“There is only one truth expressed in many forms.”

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Anonymous (68) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

wtf is this shit.

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Thus Spoke Haze (102) (@ehsan) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@bono95zg, well said.

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DaJetPlane (994)M (@lytning91) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@ehsan, Our mind subconsciously getting caught up in that uncertainty I think is the exact source of insanity.

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Thus Spoke Haze (102) (@ehsan) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@lytning91, Perhaps, and we can all use a bit of insanity.

“Have patience with everything that remains unsolved in your heart.
…live in the question.” –Rainer Maria Rilke

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Anonymous (177) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@lesterxp, @ehsan : “This nature is the Base, our fundamental condition, which is as clear, pure, and limpid as the capacity that enables a mirror to reflect. And just as different reflections appear in a mirror according to the secondary causes, so too the real condition of existence appears in different forms, either pure or impure, but its real nature does not change. That is why it is said that it is non-dual.” ~ from DZOGCHEN, The Self-Perfected State, by Namkhair Norbu, page 51

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Thus Spoke Haze (102) (@ehsan) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

@rickyferdon, “just as different reflections appear in a mirror according to the secondary causes, so too the real condition of existence appears in different forms…but its real nature does not change.”

That sounds like an explanation of Plato’s Forms.

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Anonymous (2,654) (@) 8 years, 8 months ago ago

Everything not imaginary. Imagine that.

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