Who were we before we saw our reflections?

 Ponysparkles (@Ponysparkles)5 years, 7 months ago

I googled this, because I figure this is probably the best thing to do before assuming I’ve been the first to ask the question. Likely, I haven’t, of course. Though… the ensuing things I found were mind-blowing in the sense that my train of thought spun off the effing tracks. So, i’m going to slow down and propose this to see what you think.

I googled, “Who were we before we saw our reflections?” and, as you may find, there are no searches that relate directly to the question. I tried a few variants and still had no results. Is this really that infrequent of a curiosity? Or are most, by chance, so reliant on reflections (namely their own) that they don’t even come close to wondering or proposing such a thing?

I will say that I am not a Christian, though the common result was 1 Corinthians 13:12, “Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.”

In the path of religious text I remind myself that these passages are ways in which we have established communication and understanding with the power above us (or within us) over the millenniums. When I looked at the passage more openly with “God” representing the universe/universal knowledge, the statement felt more clear, “Now, as a soul, I am not able to actively see myself for who I truly am, as my reflection is the only thing I can fully observe. But, when I have achieved enlightenment through the universe/universal knowledge, I will see my true self with perfect clarity. All that I know now of myself and the universe is partial and incomplete, but with patience and openness I will know everything completely, just as the universe now knows the true me completely.”

Theoretically, we focus so much on our physical reflections because they’re things that can be observed, measured, altered and observed again, and this has convoluted our knowledge of our true self, or our essence through the universe apart from a physical body. Meditation, in most natural forms, requires one to close their eyes – to be apart from external stimulation.

And I wonder, if everyone were to refrain from look at themselves or others in the mirror… if everyone walked around long enough to be unaware of their physical body (at least in appearance)… what would happen?

March 26, 2014 at 12:47 pm
stormcloudmafia (19) (@redriffle) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

i had such a quesion relish my entertainment of uiniverse-thought…
“if taken to a place where all of everything was taken away, what would you think about?”
and is this the location where unltimite zero lays ?
and if the single first thought in history of thinking, created a home in the mind,
and a home for the mind in the body
and a home for the body in a world
filled with shinny bells…..
what or where can this chain of thought
create its next round of homes

..
skyscrapers thew space
adding glaxitic levels and stuidos
where a singel thought can call home
builds build with think bricks
aaaaaaahhh
get of the cloud can grab a brick!
toss it!

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stormcloudmafia (19) (@redriffle) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

amoungest the depths of space…
where gravity fill no space…
how far would a ripple go?

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Ponysparkles (196) (@Ponysparkles) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

I must say that two hours in your head would be an interesting, but welcome, experience. Any thought incomplete after two minutes must hold some sort of substance. But, I imagine, if we were stripped of original stimulation, senses nonexistent, no prior observance to instill belief.. we would be the universe, all knowing, as what is there to truly know unless we, in fact, create a “self” to wonder? It seems that questioning, free will of thought, is the harbinger of the rising ego… though don’t take my word on that, things are just flowing here.

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Anonymous (64) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

I know you already know. These questions you ask. The wave becomes a particle with interaction. Ripples become universes. Endless examples all around you fill the empty space between particles and are born into existence by a mere glance…or between universes. No different.

—> http://tinyurl.com/boogxbg <—

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Anonymous (64) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

———————————————

The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name. The unnamable is the eternally real. Naming is the origin of all particular things. Free from desire, you realize the mystery. Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations. Yet mystery and manifestations arise from the same source. This source is called darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gateway to all understanding.

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stormcloudmafia (19) (@redriffle) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

th ley lines of earth
show earth more square than round
in 4d and 5d
for sure
…i know you know im right, for its the mind bending lines to cruve round connection thought to walk upound round earth grounded mind as fact
… fact wrong pck up the call bend the body not the mind;/

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Anonymous (64) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

I want to know what you see because I think you have insight. I see the world in 3 dimensions through stereoscopic eyes. From a distance it looks round. From a closer perspective it looks flat but this is optical. 4d is time? Seems linear to me, but I’m told perhaps its not. 5D as I understand it is curled up at discrete interval within the first few dimensions in a way I can’t see, but I’m told we can test for. I recognize you have more knowing. Yet you talk in cryptic tongues. I am respectful of that, but curious because while the prose and manner of writing may seem more descriptive to you and has a beauty of its own there is much that is lost in translation. Can you meet us on our level for a few minutes and explain what you know about quantum mechanics, zero field, the human condition, consciousness , etc. I truly want to know. Peace.

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Meghan (26) (@marymac1183) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

I LOVE this final quote…. what is this from?

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Anonymous (64) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

.

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Anonymous (64) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago
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stormcloudmafia (19) (@redriffle) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

wow i completely understand your stance in this thought… with the awarness that one step to the left…. would be a tottally different place than the last stance when the original thought or question seeks the possible destanations of possible outcomes… on a level where the compass used for direction was simply the universe!
like book fuck mind fart..
now here comes the real shit.
that exact same realm of enfinite destanation locations, of where we are or where we going and how did this location become from the preffeis stances loctaion verse this monment in times location of right now differ within this location from the single step to the lefts previse location….
any way. a mind or brain is the exact same as the universe.
Ninja turtles taought me this as a kid.
for if master Kroug (sp?) the brain in a jar placed in different machines…..
I realized the concept if a brain is to continue with questions, with out the relieince of human body…. how much can he learn….
enfinite.. the mind is never capable of become full, or unable to learn something new…. and the comsic edge of the universe is constantly being pushed to an new edge, threw the creation of push edge from edge
right?
calll-a-fuckin-bunha!
comsmic-high-five
thunder-clap
soniceboomedyourdreams
8bitach8-
monkmafia godfatherneeds map

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Anonymous (64) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

Mirrors wig me out. We take them for granted. The download speed of the analogue signal of reality and the fidelity of recreation with no time lag as seen through a mirror is unreal.

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emptyminded (68) (@thoughtless) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

if everyone walked around long enough to be unaware of their physical body (at least in appearance)… what would happen?

global enlightenment

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stormcloudmafia (19) (@redriffle) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

I want to be aware of what is on top everyones buckt list…. for the experience they find the satisfaction is where the see life ends… EVERYONE should write their buckets list….
mine
i wish to experience mind body and soul sit
in colpleting the top of the egypitan prymind with no top
under the brighest of bright stars reflecting same alignment when my mind made soul in body and born on earth…
!!!!
that atop my bucket list
that experience
for then maybe the only 7th woonder of the world left not understtoood
and still in standing force against the time crushed so many other experience chances
my light
newsight?

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emptyminded (68) (@thoughtless) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

you definitely bring a new way of expressing yourself to the table… personally i dont have a bucket list. if you mean things i would like to accomplish before “death”- immortality, (majority calls it a fantasy,but classification of fantasy and reality is a fantasy in its self, which humans created), if i succeed on the above mention, i would slow but surely move on to become a world-universe dictator… lol

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Anonymous (20) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

Imagine a world with no mirror or reflection of oneself? What were you before you saw your own reflection because you created that reflection, you thought that that is what you ought to look like. Since you were born, everyone had conspired against you, everyone has gotten in on the game. Your parents, older siblings, aunts and uncles, everyone told you who you were, they moulded you. The task is to understand that you’re everything that has ever existed and that will exist. You’re stuck in both the past and the future. You already know all the answers but you’re just kidding yourself at the moment. You are not quite ready to meet yourself. But you have cravings from time to time and thus you interact with people whom you choose and they teach you about yourself because they’re you. But you also avoid certain types of people because they are you and you don’t like what you see in yourself, you’re not ready. Think about how you understand people through language, how can such meaning be conveyed across through simple mouth noises. And the truly remarkable thing is that you can learn any language, the pieces of the puzzle are there but you have to solve them. But everyone’s understanding of language is different because we have our own subjective world and thus no two people’s internal dictionaries are truly the same.

Tv is a great example of how you create the world according to what you think it should look like. When you watch live television and they’re broadcasting from a different continent that you’ve never been to, you create what you think it should look like because you create everything you perceive, you imagine it. Your brain converts vibrations into sound, photons of light into sight etc. So when you actually go to that country, you’re not surprised because you already imagined it when you saw it on the television screen. It doesn’t really exist until you’re there to perceive it and you perceive it through the perceptions that you were taught to perceive by other people, who are all you. Tvs are almost a glimpse into the future. You’re creating that image, that foreign land through your perception of what you think it should look like but this imagined imagine is only what someone else has told you it should look like and you create it through their explanation of it. You’ve already been there because they have been there and you are them. You are telling yourself about this foreign land, in the same way that you tell yourself who you think you are. Who you thought you were before you imagined your entire existence. You are every human been who has ever lived and who is going to live, every plant and every animal. You are all of them . When people are reincarnated there is not an abundance of souls and limited bodies as some people believe and thus say therein lies the problem with reincarnation, too many souls and too few bodies. It is all just one soul understanding itself.

Why then do we sometimes lie to ourselves about who we think we are? It’s because we perhaps understand that we are everything and everything is us and that frightens us. We feel lost in our own created perception of what existence is. But all of our lives are a lesson to teach us to accept it. To accept that everything that has happened to you, good or bad, has led you to exactly who you are at this precise moment because it has already happened in a moment of existence which is beyond our perception of “time”, it is always happening and it has never happened. To teach you to accept that you are God.

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Meghan (26) (@marymac1183) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

Just.. yes. Thank you for being me for a moment and re-affirming all that is true and beautiful to my heart. I am finding these affirmations alot lately, and I am grateful for the gift. Life is not about finding ‘yourself’… because the real, you, is never lost. This game we play is really about finding all the lies you tell ‘yourself,’ about who, you, are. All the lies other people tell, you, about who ‘you’ are… finding those lies and unraveling them… because we are all each other’s mirrors, and that is all we are.

I wrote this ‘creative’ piece the other day, seems right somehow for this spot.

“Sometimes I get so lost in the miniscule details of life that I am overwhelmed with an intense pressure, as if everything behind everything were attempting to climb inside the black holes of my eyes…. Pushing them wide with two hands and penetrating me. It slowly trickles then from eyes to throat to chest as everything behind everything starts to fill me. All that’s behind her eyes or his, the darkness and violence ever so slightly covered, but just bordering the divine place within. And when my eyes and insides ache from being pillaged by this sudden obtrusive awareness I will look at the sea and sand and suddenly the world that existed before as s flat landscape seems to expand into multi-dimensional solidity, as the wooden chair in front of me bleeds with life, the crow laughing on its arm-rest breathes deeply with me and the ebb of the sea. Everything is here, every, thing, imploding into itself and exploding back out again, bursting at invisible seams.
I’ve always craved to know all, through feeling all, to take everything behind everything inside of me, because it’s already there, because nothing is not, already there. To breathe into dissolution until my form loosens and becomes malleable and vibratory, so that everything behind everything can pass through without becoming lodged in any covered corners. Blow off the dust with my breath… as I lift my face to the sky and swallow it all. The taut invisible elastic that links all things together…” It continues but you get the point, ha.

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Anonymous (20) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

Jeeze, that’s quite the creative piece! I dug the imagery. Especially the theme of how EVERYTHING is just trying to escape out of one’s mind. ” All that’s behind her eyes or his, the darkness and violence ever so slightly covered, but just bordering the divine place within.” That bit reminds me of the mystery which unravels when I people watch. It’s fascinating to know that each and every individual is currently living their own narrative. Their own extraordinary story with a plot so captivating that no human mind could ever truly recreate it. A tale of strife so beautiful that only the Universe sits with quill in hand and writes. It blows my mind to think that every living creature lives such a tale. Just the other day I asked two of my close mates what their earliest memory was. In complete detail. It was wonderful.

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Meghan (26) (@marymac1183) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

I Love, to people watch. Other humans hold the biggest mysteries to me and simultaneously the simplest connection. In a city if you look out at the windows and see eaah square as a tinty light-box which holds within it the stories of lifetimes worth of laughter, loneliness, and beauty. Incredible no? Even more incredible… nature, it wins everytime. Interesting question! What is your first memory then?

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Anonymous (20) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

Hahaha, that sounds flippen incredible. I’d dig to people watch on a grand scale. Lol, my earliest memory… I was a little over 2yrs old and we were living in this village in a rural area called Venda, South Africa. We lived in this rondvel with a red stoep (it’s Afrikaans and means a small porch or veranda in front of the house). I remember crawling around on all fours on the ground outside, the soil had a clay-like texture to it, a soiloid texture if you will. And I would always wear a white cloth like material or small towel as a diaper and I was always getting it dirty. The children next door were Muslim and slightly older than me and they would always run to my garden past the fence and they would always scream, “Kareem!” “Kareem!” “Kareem!”, “Kareem” because that is my second name, it means “generous” in Arabic. My first name is Masana, it’s Shagaan for rays of light, so the bringer of light, to bring light into people’s lives. Fast forward 2 yrs and I remember moving to a small location in Tzaneen called Nkowa-nkowa, we lived with my maternal grandmother. My mother and I would take strolls in the field, with the warm African sun on our skins, and we would harvest grasshoppers ( a frying pan’s worth) and go home, fry them and then eat them. I also remember building a chick (baby chicken) house with my cousin. We’d pinch bricks and cement from our neighbours who were renovating and use them for our chick house. Once completed we added some cement for the floor, smoothed it out and let it dry. We then went next door and stole possibly a dozen fluffy chicks and introduced them to their new home, which we thought was fantastic, and we left it at that. My gran was impressed, she was a member of one of the prominent South African political parties which were central to our fight for democratic freedom under the Apartheid regime, she told our older cousin to set the chicks free and to destroy our chick house, he had to use a sledgehammer of sorts. I was pretty bummed that day but I understood that what I did was wrong. It was an infringement of freedom.

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Anonymous (20) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

*my gran was not impressed*

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Anonymous (20) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

And your earliest memory?

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Meghan (26) (@marymac1183) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

Good stories! Your life sounds full of interesting and poignant moments, as all are :)
My earliest memory is riding in the backseat of our mini-van at three years old… I was dangling my ta-ta (a blanket I used to carry everywhere) outside the window wondering what would happen if I let go of it? I kept almost getting to that point, and then not doing it… until I did. And we had to stop the car and go back. Ha. Also my mom was trying to get somehwere at a certain time, maybe the post office? She was stressing and I watched her getting more and more upset. I knew somehow we would get there in time and I wanted to soothe her, but I remember knowing I was too little to relieve her. We got there on time, and everything was fine, I was so glad to see her happy again. Then, living in Saudi Arabia. I climbed the wall to our compound, knowing it was the wrong thing to do. I walked along the ledge for some time just to see how far I could go, until I fell into the rose bushes below, breaking my arm (literally in half). I was a very small child and so it was easy to break. I didn’t cry but carried my broken arm in the other one, walking back to my house with a friend. I didn’t want to tell my mom because I didn’t want to get in trouble and I didn’t want to worry her. But my friend told her while I waited outside, embarrassed. And since women couldn’t drive, we had to wait for a male neighbor to come home to the compound and take us to the hospital. I rested it on a folded up magazine, and by the time we arrived, they had to re-break it to set it, as it had been so long… the last picture I have is the doctor holding my fingers in one of those chinese finger traps. I panicked, knowing what he was going to do, and then black out!
Someone else on this page.. Give us another memory!

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Anonymous (64) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

Thank you for this on so many levels. It poetically encapsulates the edgy reality of truth seeking. Each new bit of understanding only reveals more questions until immersion in the fractal nature of this search is just too overwhelming….but then on occasion you are able to see the fractals from a new perspective and instead of asking questions you just passively observe and experience the wonder of the unfolding.

Namaste.

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Meghan (26) (@marymac1183) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

overwhelming becomes surrender becomes Presence… :)

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Anonymous (328) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

This song by the Talking Heads has some pretty relevant lyrics.

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stormcloudmafia (19) (@redriffle) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

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Anonymous (175) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

There were no mirrors thousands of years ago. It’s thus not necessarily inherent to us that we define our identity via this.

It’s an interesting point though, since I guess it’s a self-driven evolution, so to speak. Much of modern society, and not just Western culture, but in China, India, Africa, etc. is built on some degree of self-concept. Of course, this is innately human, but then it’s been expanded and morphed a lot over the past millennia (at least since mirrors were invented).

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Ponysparkles (196) (@Ponysparkles) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

Someone brought to my attention this great point about the “Mirror-Stage” idea proposed by Jacques Lacan that also suggests that without mirrors, infants also self-indentify through their mother’s or caregiver’s image: http://www.english.hawaii.edu/criticalink/lacan/

From the page: “The idea of the “mirror stage” is an important early component in Lacan’s critical reinterpretation of the work of Freud. Drawing on work in physiology and animal psychology, Lacan proposes that human infants pass through a stage in which an external image of the body (reflected in a mirror, or represented to the infant through the mother or primary caregiver) produces a psychic response that gives rise to the mental representation of an “I”. The infant identifies with the image, which serves as a gestalt of the infant’s emerging perceptions of selfhood, but because the image of a unified body does not correspond with the underdeveloped infant’s physical vulnerability and weakness, this imago is established as an Ideal-I toward which the subject will perpetually strive throughout his or her life.

For Lacan, the mirror stage establishes the ego as fundamentally dependent upon external objects, on an other. As the so-called “individual” matures and enters into social relations through language, this “other” will be elaborated within social and linguistic frameworks that will give each subject’s personality (and his or her neuroses and other psychic disturbances) its particular characteristics.”

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stormcloudmafia (19) (@redriffle) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

I serious thinked the first sight of one reflection mind fucked this demission. for it instantly created “look at me” instead of ” looking at you, I see me, looking at me lokking at you…” fuuucked the word. and forever lost seeing us in everyone else. I can get slost in deep stardown with my widest of wide open eyes, as if to sallow my reflected eyes, or fll down my pupa’s rabbit hole. where at that moment i see my self at a distance seeing myself look at myself and switch focusing i caan see my mothers exact eyes, and also my fathers… atttt which point i snap back to non triplands with shoe laces. but yeah, trying to see you, looking back, while you look at yousomeone else.. is a goood thing to do, and see.

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Meghan (26) (@marymac1183) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

Have you ever felt someone else’s feeling? This has been coming often lately… I can see someone, even a stranger, and for a moment, and I will be inside them, feeling what they feel, sometimes very deeply so that I become almost sick.
It’s not seeing how I might be ‘seen’ form outside… because it is difficult to see myself at all anyway. I am often a little disconnected from how I perceive or may be perceived.
But it even happens if I think of someone from my life, there will be a sudden feeling, a deep emotion coming, and I will understand that it is not coming from me. It is the way I have made someone else feel at some moment in time, perhaps I touched upon a childhood wound in someone else and triggered a body of pain in them. And I FEEL it. Or even I will feel something that happened in their life that is nothing to do with me, that caused some pain.
And tears will come, alot. But they are different than tears that would come for myself, and they are not pity either, just like a cleaning or purge. They begin at a different space, a lower space, they have less charge behind them.
Anyway, don’t know if this makes sense. It would be nice to see the way you see, without feeling so much with it. Do you understand what I mean?
With your visions does it bring the feeling too?

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Anonymous (64) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

You write things that make me want to give you a hug. The empathy and compassion you are describing has a genuiness to it that feels like a crystal clear night sky full of stars. If it is not improper to guess, I’d suspect you’ve been serotonin deficient for a long time and are just coming into rediscovering the beauty of your own soul that you once knew well, but lost touch with for a while. You’re shining a radiant light with your writing. Peace.

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Meghan (26) (@marymac1183) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

Thank you, hugs are good. I just posted the ending of my last piece, called presence in all it’s pain, it better explains than that last post does. No x! Ha, no nothing. Just life is enough these days. Yeah perhaps I suffered a depression for awhile, but I have always been this way, it is often the reason for the depression. Taking things on too deeply. I’m glad to know at least I can attempt to translate that feeling somehow through the writing. Its therapy in it’s own way no?

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Anonymous (64) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

I feel the same way. Overthink things. Perhaps. Or see them too clearly. My heart breaks over the smallest unfairness or injustice and it overwhelms me. I have had periodic glimpses in my life of inhabiting my own soul and realizing that in order to serve others I first had to heal myself. Your writing and the place it flows from feels like a beacon that illuminates the path and for that I’m really grateful.

BTW – Speaking of The Way. The text I quoted below (that you asked about) is the Tao Te Ching…..literally ‘The Way’. If you haven’t read it, then it is my greatest gift to share it with you:

http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html

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stormcloudmafia (19) (@redriffle) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

I feel like my soul can hug you. for what you feel, can see in people, runs threw us. everyone raidiants a vibration… and i am begining to think my minds inner pure thoughts that are like my spoken truth of human emotions and the powers and levels in what love REALLY is…yet is dieing with all this bullshit and suffering i see in these kind, caring, unique speacial characteristic manners, that have been TAUGHT to them. and the way people are suffering and yet calling love…. thumps me.. I do ALL i can to take the suffering away, even if all i can offer is understanding and a means of release. I have suffered the -273degree of pains darkness, so dark not light can create heat, and soo cold eventually cold cant get any colder. I honestly feel like I have fallen THREW death and somehow connected for a final push, and this time I CHANGE the UNIVERSE, destroy the dollar, outlaw any form of power, except the subtainable, uboundant, engery of sound waves.. we feel, we hear, we even transmit.. I cant stand feeling the WORLDS suffering anymore and i will strieve, and strieve. I can almost see the full picture of whats been shown to be, and instored in vast amounts of given knowlwdge to connect thr dots with the stars… I will sit on that prymaid on day.. under totally global black out.. the sky will be powerfull. I want to FEEL THAT AGAIN!

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stormcloudmafia (19) (@redriffle) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

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stormcloudmafia (19) (@redriffle) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

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Anonymous (64) (@) 5 years, 6 months ago ago

Greek Mythology addresses this question. There is a 2000 year old story about a man named Narcissus who had a habit of having one night stands. The women would fall in love with him but he would reject them. A goddess named Nemesis sought to punish him for this so she lured him to a reflecting pond so that he could see his reflection for the first time and feel what it was like to love but not be loved.. Narcissus fell deeply in love with his reflection but could not possess it. He kept reaching into the pond, but every time he did, it would disturb the water, and his reflection would disappear. In the end he became so compulsive about looking at his reflection that he starved to death.

The english word ‘narcissism’ derives from this story and is defined as “the pursuit of gratification from vanity, or egotistic admiration of one’s own physical or mental attributes, that derive from arrogant pride.”

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stormcloudmafia (19) (@redriffle) 5 years, 6 months ago ago
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