Why is Health Insurance becoming Mandatory? What's the point?

MonkeyZazu (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 1 month ago

I’m trying to better understand why health insurance is becoming required? I feel as though it would be a waste if you never go the hospital for anything. Say I pay $100 a month for health insurance, which comes to $1200 for the year. 5 years pass and I never go the hospital. So basically I paid the health insurance company $6000 for nothing? Another thing is what if you can afford your medical expenses? Maybe you go to the doctor once a year for a checkup that cost $50. If you had health insurance it would be cheaper, but you would be spending more money on the health insurance than the actual medical bill. That makes no sense to me.

I understand people who are constantly in and out of the hospital, but why make it mandatory when everyone isn’t like that?

I’ve heard arguments saying that its like car insurance, but its really not. Car insurance isn’t required of you by the federal government, but the by the state. There are one or two states where car insurance isn’t even required of drivers. Plus I think a person has a lot more control over their individual health than the things they encounter while their driving.

Any information on this topic would be helpful and appreciated. This webpage talks about the consequences if you don’t get health insurance in 2014: https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-someone-doesnt-have-health-coverage-in-2014/

October 18, 2013 at 12:21 pm
Joseph (114) (@warriors41) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@theskafish, If you have access to a computer with internet and a hot shower, consider yourself RICH! You don’t know how many people out there would love a hot shower. and water to drink.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@warriors41, I guess but that’s never worked for me. Others have it worse, my situation is still bad. It’s still definitely not good. I have access to a 10 year old computer with shitty Internet, and hot showers in a bathroom that is covered in mold. I shower pretty frequently because I am pretty active physically, but I’m really worried the mold in there has already fucked up my lungs. My parents are either unwilling or unable to do anything about it. There isn’t even a fan in there for the steam, so that means showers in winter are just awesome with direct access to 20 degree outside air. Someone else has it worse, that does not mean I have it good.

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Joseph (114) (@warriors41) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@theskafish, and bad is more than just the absence of good.

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@linds,

I see. So if I’m thinking about this right, its the Affordable Care Act that makes health insurance companies provide insurance to everyone regardless of their medical condition, in which for the them to be able to help everyone with their expenses, health insurance needs to become mandatory so that the insurance companies can afford to help everyone?

Before hand health insurance companies didn’t have to insure people if they found them too much of a risk because it would cost too much money to support them. When things were like that, mandatory health insurance didn’t need to and couldn’t be considered because not everyone could qualify for it.

The people who couldn’t qualify for it and found themselves needing to go to the hospital had really high medical expenses. Obama created the act in order to help them and anyone else who needs it? Aaah, the logic starts to surface, but, there’s still a problem.

The act was created for the people who “needed” health insurance but couldn’t qualify for it. What about the people who “didn’t” and still “don’t” need health insurance though? For the people who take care of their health and who don’t find themselves “needing” the medical attention that hospitals provide and insurance companies help with, they’re kinda gettin screwed the same way the people who couldn’t qualify for health insurance was before, with higher expenses, an added monthly bill.

With this logic in mind, I’m kinda concluding that this mandatory health insurance is bullshit. Its not helping everyone, but only a majority. This isn’t really equal or fair terms. I’m really starting to vibe with some of the things @linds and @theskafish have been saying. My own individual choice of whether I want to help others is being tampered with. I personally would probably always make the decision to help someone else, but that’s my own subjective choice. The government is making it mandatory of everyone.

So in conclusion my choice is being taken away, more along the lines of becoming irrelevant, and they are increasing my living expenses………. pretty messed up.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@monkeyzazu, exactly. I mean, I get where it’s coming from – I get PART of the other side’s argument. Like, it would be pretty rotten if I or someone I loved was denied coverage and treatment was too expensive so the hospital basically leaves me/them for dead. That I say is barbaric. But – at the same time, why can’t there be something on a smaller scale that targets just those people? Like, a law that says insurance companies have to help people who actually are in dire circumstances – not “everyone is now forced to pay insurance companies more money even if you actively do your best to avoid using the doctor”. Plus, the added monthly bill really pisses me off cause usually people have a choice to buy something or not – it was hard enough to get by already. This is imposing on my freedom to spend my money on what I want. Don’t get me wrong, I would not mind helping if I have abundance to give away, but the root of my argument is, I don’t. I want to establish myself properly before I make any kind of contribution. Besides, I’m vehemently against anything that raises my monthly expenses.

I sincerely doubt that this bill was thought up with good intentions, though it makes a clever smokescreen. Something tells me that if you dig to the bottom of this thing, you will find the insurance lobby’s slimy hands at work – which, by the way, is said to be, along with finance, the most represented industry in congress. Insurance companies now have a massive captive customer base and are probably going to make windfall profits from this, even with having to cover everyone. I smell a rat.

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@theskafish,

I’ve tried to stay objective in this discussion, but I really agree with the last bit of your reply. All of this makes me think that there is something in the background happening that we are unaware of, ya kno? The conspiracy theorist starts to come out of me and thinks that this is just a scam to intuitively control people by implanting the idea that since they already have health insurance because its mandatory, to just go to the hospital for all there medical needs. This is how the “real” profit is made. The mentality that will bring more people to hospitals, getting them on “fda approved” drugs and treatments, which makes the population sicker, thus continuing the circle.

My money would be better spent on supporting proposed cancer treatments that the FDA and other government corporations don’t support because of how much money they would lose.

http://youtu.be/ShqKk3fasZA

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Anonymous (134) (@) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

I just don’t understand how you guys can’t see how well universal healthcare works for every other country. Seriously, the results speak for themselves. All the replies coming from people against it are super “Me Myself and I”-y.

I dunno. Like @theskafish said, what’s the point in bitching if it’s inevitable. All you’re doing is getting yourself worked up about something you can’t change. the negative energy from that is unnecessary and entirely avoidable.

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Linds (71) (@linds) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@monkeyzazu you are thinking about it right, well said. Not to say that the others are wrong, but like @theskafish said it’s hard to provide for someone else when you’re just trying to stay above water yourself. It’s not that theskafish and I are bad people, it’s like Dave Ramsey said in that link I posted. You can get more return on an investment with 10% than the government can give back to you with the other 90%. Why why whyyyy would I want to give my money to the government to fund this program when I could invest that money, get back an amazing return, and help so many more people? Why help 1 person with something the government funded when I can help 9 personally?

The moral concept of Obamacare is great. The way it’s been executed, terrible.

After receiving my degree in International Business/Econ and Political Science, I decided that was not the route I wanted to take due to all of the crookedness. Everyone in DC is a zombie and even the good people eventually get turned when enough money is flashed in front of their face. I’m telling you because I’ve seen it. Those morons are so money hungry and greedy. There is no way they are looking out for any of our needs or the American people as a whole. They do not care, it’s all about the Benjamins for them! The thing that got me most upset about this whole affordable care act is that Obama is trying to fund this program because he wants all Americans to be healthy and have access to medical care… yet he signs the act to protect what is causing the most harm to American nutrition.. The act to protect Monsanto. The two acts contradict each other. Give Americans nutrient rich, wonderful, non-GMO foods and you will see so many diseases and health problems disappear.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@francina, “I just don’t understand how you guys can’t see how well universal healthcare works for every other country. Seriously, the results speak for themselves. All the replies coming from people against it are super “Me Myself and I”-y. ”

I understand that. And especially the bit about negativity over things that cannot be changed…I let myself get carried away with this topic. This is a case in point of why I try to avoid all news or economic or political discussion, because I know I’ll just work myself into a fury to the point that I become short of breath and it physically hurts.

But the me myself and I thing, it’s not always greed. When you don’t have a lot and you’re down and out, it becomes really easy to adopt a me myself and I attitude. If you need a heavy object lifted, would you not just ask but demand the help of a guy with a broken arm, or just a weak person? If you don’t have abundance you don’t really have anything to give away. That’s where I’m coming from.

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@francina,

You always have a choice. Nothing is ever set in stone. Just because my government tells me to do something doesn’t mean I will, especially if it doesn’t make sense to me. Thats the point of this thread, to make sense of everything regarding this topic. If you could, please explain how other countries benefit from this. Widen my perspective. I’m open to all information.

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Linds (71) (@linds) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

Just an example of UK’s healthcare. Recently, a friend of mine living in Wales got some negative results back on a pap-smear. She had to wait 2 weeks to find out what the results were. If I had some negative results come back on any tests, I would be notified day of and in the office later that day or the very next day to move forward in taking care of the issue.

Look at what our veterans go through. They receive terrible healthcare from our government.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@monkeyzazu, “Just because my government tells me to do something doesn’t mean I will, especially if it doesn’t make sense to me. ”

The problem is, like I said to Cody – if you refuse to pay, they will simply take it out of your paycheck AND add a fine on top of it, a fine which is set to increase every year. There’s no escape from this, save being able to buy insurance through your employer or by being rich enough not to care about this extra bill. I agree, there is definitely something more going on here, because if the government truly cared about the public health, they would provide better food for the people and enact tougher standards on junk food. The government is already fond of making substances illegal, so why then can you buy cigarettes all over the place? And why does the government allow companies who produce knowingly-harmful products like junk food and cigs to advertise all over the place, further encouraging consumption of harmful products and addiction to them? When you get sick from too much smoking and junk food you have to go to the hospital and guess what then – your premiums increase. Guess who gets more of your money every month for the rest of your life. Now multiply that times all the obese people and/or smokers…pretty sure that even with the increased hospital visits, insurance execs will be laughing all the way to the bank.


@linds
, “Give Americans nutrient rich, wonderful, non-GMO foods and you will see so many diseases and health problems disappear.”

That’s why I say proves the government’s intentions are less than noble. If they really wanted to solve the public health crisis, they’d go after the source. Not force everyone to buy insurance, while simultaneously leaving all the tools for self-destruction right where they’ve always been, visible and in reach. It’s perfect – profits from unhealthy products now in turn help increase profits from the insurance industry in the form of increased premiums due to more people being sick more often, now enforced by government muscle – it’s a symbiotic relationship at its finest. They’re all helping each other prey on us. I can almost guarantee that insurance lobbyists had a huge role to play in all this.

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@theskafish,

They won’t take it out of your paycheck. People really wont have to pay anything until the beginning of 2015 when you file your 2014 taxes. At that time if you don’t have health insurance you will have to pay $95 dollars or 1% of your annual income, which ever is higher. (http://www.bizfilings.com/toolkit/news/tax-info/health-insurance-mandatory-beginning-2014.aspx and https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-someone-doesnt-have-health-coverage-in-2014/)

I can accept failure, but I can’t accept not trying. Get as much information as you can on the issue and try to come to terms of understanding with proposed solutions. If that doesn’t work, think of and propose your own solutions. If you don’t like the way something is, you don’t have to succumb to it. You have the power to change anything, or at least try.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@monkeyzazu, so wait a sec….you said “People really wont have to pay anything until the beginning of 2015 when you file your 2014 taxes. At that time if you don’t have health insurance you will have to pay $95 dollars or 1% of your annual income, which ever is higher. ”

So this means I don’t have to have health insurance until 2015? Like, I have all of 2014 to find a full time job that I can be insured through? If that’s the case, I would feel a lot better. I was mad and worried sick because I thought I had just 2 and a half months or so to find a full time job.

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JonH (1,139)C (@IJesusChrist) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@theskafish, Mad and worried sick and you didn’t bother to investigate yourself.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@ijesuschrist, if that’s the case….oh man……can’t believe I got so enraged….

 photo picard-facepalm.jpg

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bigmac22 (26) (@bigmac22) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

i don’t support the affordable health care act mainly because of the aspect of it being forced on us. i agree that the health of family and friends is a worthwhile investment, but i also believe that hospitals don’t “make you healthy”. hospitals deal with emergencies, which at the rate that you pay the insurance companies, if you are actually a healthy person, you could have more set aside for that emergency than you would be able to get through insurance.

health starts with your own habits, and the hospitals can’t MAKE anyone healthy. if people aren’t willing to change their habits to be healthy people, that’s their business. I shouldn’t have to pay for THEIR mistakes. i keep myself in decent shape, i eat healthier than most, though i’m not a health nut. i have never had to visit the hospital within my memory. not once, not even when i greenbroke my arm. i once had an eye infection that made me effectively blind for about a week, but hey, i pulled through that too. i’ve had the flu, and just born through it and it went away. fuck, i even had an abscessed tooth that they wanted to do around 1000 dollars worth of work on, and that was with insurance, but i did some other things and it hasn’t bothered me since.

my point is, health insurance should be optional. it is entirely against what America was founded upon to force something like that on the people. my understanding of what America stood for is simply that the government mind the affairs of the nation collectively while keeping its big damn nose out of people’s personal business unless they have a reasonable cause to suspect a person of criminal activity. which, it seems to me that its pretty fucking ridiculous to start making it illegal to NOT have something, when not having that something doesn’t hurt anyone, except MAYBE yourself.

as much as many people from other countries will find this very “typical” of an american, and they will think this a negative attribute, my belief is that the freedom of the american nation is the freedom to choose for yourself, whether that ends up being a poor choice or a good one, the thing that truly matters is that you can choose.

in conclusion, all i can say is fuck obama and his “care”, and i won’t be signing up for it or any other health insurance, and i refuse to pay any fines, and if they call me a criminal because of it, so be it. i refuse to participate in something so blatantly un-american.

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@theskafish,

Yea, that’s how I’m interpreting it and I think that’s what a lot of people are going to do. Wait til 2015 to get health insurance and pay the 2014 fine. Next year I think there might be a big news story regarding the lack of people who still haven’t gotten health insurance. Hopefully that will bring the discussion of the Affordable Health Care Act back into the mainstream and make more people question if this was really a good solution.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@monkeyzazu, oh….well i guess we’re back to where we started from again, pardon my French but fuck the 2014 fine. Back to needing full time employment in two months and me being pissed off at this…ugh…..

Never thought I’d be cheering for Republicans but I seriously hope they shut this shit down by then.

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pat (169) (@epath) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

One might be healthy, but if you get in an accident or have catastrophic disease, the pubic will have to pay for it.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

The more I think about it the more I think insurance is a bullshit industry, a giant con. If things that are insured are so vital, why do they cost so much in the first place? How could we have possibly created a world that is too expensive to exist in when we didn’t have to buy our planet or our own existence? Insurance is a middleman that tricks you into thinking it is necessary for you to have things, when it is not. If you are sick, you don’t need an insurance agent, you need a doctor. If your car breaks down, you don’t need an insurance agent, you need a mechanic. But they’ve conditioned us into thinking they are the ones that enable all of this to exist. That they are the ones that allow the first world to exist, that these things would not happen independently of them, that without insurance the world would devolve into prehistory.

What’s next? Bicycle, skateboard, and freakin’ shoe insurance? Food insurance? Oh hey people, guess what – a loaf of bread is now $1,000. BUT for only $100 a month, you get the privilege of buying things for an actual, normal price! Come on down!

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@warriors41, @spiraltouch, @moonglade, @francina, @filipek, Thank you non-Americans for helping me view this in a more informed and less selfish way. I’m pretty damn poor but also want this country to change for the better and be more like other places that take care of each other.

@Anyone else who understands this, I’m very confused about the particulars of this thing.. I’ve heard so many different things and any time I try to look up information on it I just get more confused.

Will it be taken directly out of my pay check?

Is it true that people who make 20,000 or less a year are exempt from this?

What is the penalty for not having insurance?

If my employer does not offer health insurance, what does that mean in regards to this?

I feel dumb.

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Mr. Self (2) (@iammrself) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

I agree with you @MonkeyZazu. I’ve always viewed the proposed and now mandated health care act to be a “money grab”. Just as you explained, there is a lot of money going right into the pockets of … who knows? Due to healthily people being mandated to buy into this system. Feels like the end of a free country. Perhaps I am late to this one?

I make a decent living and have health care, which I pay $110/mo for via my employer. I’m willing to do this because I can afford it and in the long run, if the worst happens to me, it’s worth $1200 a year. However, I can think back to when I was struggling financially, which I still do at times, I would never even think to pay $100/mo on healthcare. That’s a big bill. I would just stay healthy, like I am now. I don’t think anyone should consider passing legislation based on “what if?” scenarios. What if you win the lottery? There’s two sides to every argument. What if you contract a flesh eating skin disease? Hey, that’s life. No one promised you anything. Do what you love, work hard, be excellent and take care of your health. How many people do this that you know of? If this was at the root of our culture, it would be a different country. But we’re becoming the “take a handout” country and it’s hurting everyone. I’d rather do for myself and risk consequence, but now I have no choice.

Overall, I see this move as extorting money from the American people through the rule of law. What makes me feel even more disenfranchised is to see how many people are upset about this, but can do nothing about it. Who do we call that will actually hear our voices and respond? The outcry would have to be tremendous… just look at what the March on Wall Street accomplished, nothing. Spawned a few good documentaries, but did nothing to rectify the ills of a very corrupt system. As long as the news says “the DOW is up” we go off to work feeling like everything might be ok, while taking no control over our destiny.

Personally, I think after a few years of being healthy and forking over your hard earned cash to Uncle Sam, people are going to detest this law. You take care of you, and I’ll take care of me. That’s America. Many people from all over the world come here with nothing, and they work hard and they make a life for themselves. That’s what this country is about. Now it’s being run like a business and debts are being called in on the good, hard working people of this country. Not cool.

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Adam (118) (@moonglade) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@iammrself, Bro this was legally passed 3 years ago. If you had something to say about it that was your time to say it which nobody did. I literally can’t see how this is extorting money from american people. It’s a TAX!!! Y’know TAXES those things you pay EVERY YEAR for this like roads, schools, and military protection. Honestly the ability for every body to have ace’s to a doctor is as essential as the ability for everybody to have access to education.

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Mr. Self (2) (@iammrself) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@moonglade, 3 years ago? I must be missing something then if this is all the rage in the news today? I guess the news is late too. My point is good sir, when you do speak up… who hears it? This system is broken… bro. You can give it any label you like, it’s still a mandated bill and fine every month, for every person, without question. You seem to speak from a sense or place of entitlement, and the goal of my comment was not to argue with you, but to embellish why I agreed with @MonkeyZazu. It’s extortion because it’s going to happen whether you/I like it or not and we have no idea where all that money is going. Look up the definition of extortion… bro. Just like the bail out. Remember that? When we, the tax payers footed the bill and execs still got their half million dollar bonuses? Have we recouped those costs as expected?

I guess you feel like this is a great idea. That’s fine. But why should I have to buy into it just because someone I don’t know, and have no connection with or any similar circumstances with buys into it? There’s also the question of lifestyle. I lead a healthy lifestyle. If tragedy befalls me and I suddenly get cancer, I’m not going to blame the government. That’s life.

This also has ZERO to do with education, building roads and the military… and is completely unrelated to those topics as you’d mentioned. Unless you’re saying my not wanting to buy into Obamacare means I don’t want roads or a military? That would be a stupid assumption. And I think you probably could be even smarter than I am on an intellectual level, but it’s not apparent based on your comments. Peace be with you and enjoy the healthcare. It’s on me.

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