Why is Health Insurance becoming Mandatory? What's the point?

MonkeyZazu (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 1 month ago

I’m trying to better understand why health insurance is becoming required? I feel as though it would be a waste if you never go the hospital for anything. Say I pay $100 a month for health insurance, which comes to $1200 for the year. 5 years pass and I never go the hospital. So basically I paid the health insurance company $6000 for nothing? Another thing is what if you can afford your medical expenses? Maybe you go to the doctor once a year for a checkup that cost $50. If you had health insurance it would be cheaper, but you would be spending more money on the health insurance than the actual medical bill. That makes no sense to me.

I understand people who are constantly in and out of the hospital, but why make it mandatory when everyone isn’t like that?

I’ve heard arguments saying that its like car insurance, but its really not. Car insurance isn’t required of you by the federal government, but the by the state. There are one or two states where car insurance isn’t even required of drivers. Plus I think a person has a lot more control over their individual health than the things they encounter while their driving.

Any information on this topic would be helpful and appreciated. This webpage talks about the consequences if you don’t get health insurance in 2014: https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-someone-doesnt-have-health-coverage-in-2014/

October 18, 2013 at 12:21 pm
Adam (118) (@moonglade) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@iammrself, Ok maybe my first comment might have had some hostile vibes which I’m sorry for but I still can’t understand how people are against this.

Extortion? I guess you would consider every tax you’ve ever payed extortion too. Taxes are mandated, for every person, without question. Unless you want a government without taxes, which would be no government at all, you can’t really use the it’s mandatory therefore it’s extortion argument is invalid

Even though you lead a healthy lifestlyle that does not protect you from everything. What if you get in an accident. What if you break a bone. These situations are not at all uncommon and will not be prevented no matter how many veggies you eat. Also what about your family, assuming you do have kids, your wife will get pregnant and will have to eventually go to a hospital multiple times. I’m not even factoring in how many times your kids will get sick.

My connection to education, building roads and military protection is that these are all things you are required to pay for, like obomacare, whether you use them or not so they can be provided by your government. Just like how you said “I live healthily so I should not have to pay the healthcare tax” another could say “My children go to private schools so why should I pay for public education that I do not use”

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@moonglade, of course, they kept quiet about the true nature of it back then though. Back then, all the talk was “free access to healthcare for everyone!” Who would have protested that?

Now, of course, they come out and say “here’s your new extra monthly bill, suckers” This new law shows its true colors. They left out the key part of the story so that no one would be against it. This is absolutely a money grab by insurance companies, whose lobbyists probably came up with this idea in the first place. Whether it’s a new monthly bill or a tax, it still sucks – the poor and middle class are already being taxed and price-gouged into the dirt as it is.

The thing I hate about it is individuals who don’t have abundance are forced on pain of violence to take care of others, even though they can’t even really care for themselves. But when the individual needs help, you’re on your own. This is like having one person who is shirtless, and solving the problem by robbing another person of their shirt and ripping it in half. Now you have two people with half a shirt – nothing is solved, everyone is still poor. And if one chooses not to have kids, I believe they should be taxed less – they are not using the public service, and furthermore, they are being punished for their decision not to have kids. One of the many cases to not have children is because you can’t afford it, because you need/want that money to have a better lifestyle for yourself….so the government basically punishes you for making a financially sound, responsible decision. Makes no sense.


@iammrself
, you said that at one point you struggled financially, but that you got out. How did you do it? How long did it take?

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Mr. Self (2) (@iammrself) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@moonglade, Apparently you didn’t read and absorb my previous response. Please do so, then reply again. I don’t think I should have to repeat myself. Thanks!

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james (20) (@jamesjohnson) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@moonglade, The reason why the law sucks so bad is because there is NO INCENTIVE for people to take care of themselves. Oh, I’ll just continue to put shit into my body, not exercise, and when I get diabetes and heart disease – everybody gets to subsidize my medical bills that were caused by my own decisions.

In one of the most unhealthy nations in the world, this law doesn’t make anyone accountable. In fact, it perpetuates free riders. That’s why the law is bullshit and it will probably end up making the aggregate health of the nation much poorer.

Plus, the implementation was so fucking shitty. Oh, we spent billions of taxpayer dollars to set up bullshit exchanges and websites that don’t even work. Fuck that noise. The least they could have done was make sure that it was flawless – they only had 36 months or so to put it together. What a bunch of horseshit!

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Mr. Self (2) (@iammrself) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@theskafish, It’s a never ending struggle really just to keep up with the bills and rent. Pay down debt, avoid going into debt… any type of debt, big or small. Ultimately, I worked really hard, watched every penny and prayed like hell man.

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Mr. Self (2) (@iammrself) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@jamesjohnson, Speak on it! You nailed it man. Thank you.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@iammrself, I’m trying to do just that actually. Thankfully I have a degree and no debt, but I am not at all interested in my major (business administration) and REALLY don’t want to go back to school – I was able to get through once without debt but if I went back again, I would have the same student loan problem that’s so prevalent these days, in other words, being financially screwed for life. I can say right now that would push me over the edge. Right now I’m at zero – no debt, but no money either. Can’t seem to figure out what to do though, that won’t completely suck and make me hate life.

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t-rav (25) (@travis) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

Without having universal healthcare we are basically allowing the insurance companies to do whatever they want and create an inflated market, allowing us to get ‘swindled and pimped’. It’s easy to say you should have your own choice on the matter but the fact is people will not pay for health insurance and then the burden gets put on the people anyways at an elevated cost. I’ve had health insurance all my life thanks to my parents and if I didn’t, I would be fucked by all my injuries; I would have to play it safe. Fuck that. Universal health care is something that can be done successfully and should be.

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Adam (118) (@moonglade) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@iammrself, I thought I hit all of the point you brang up one by one but excuse me for my ignorance. I guess what I’m missing is so painfully obvious that it does not merit you to explain your problems with my argument in the least -.-


@theskafish
, So you thought that they were saying “free healthcare for everybody, no repercussions, YEAH!!!!!!” Why would you ever assume that? It literally makes no sense. Do you not understand how free healthcare works in other countries? Where the heck do you think the money would come from to finance all of this O.o


@jamesjohnson
, Yes because the american people were sooo conscious about their health before this bill was implemented.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again universal healthcare has been proven to work in countless countries already. Countries with universal healthcare have generally have a higher quality of life and overall healthier people. This will literally improve your country. Talk to anybody who lives outside of the U.S and they will say the same thing. I really don’t need to convince you because it’s happening whether you like it or not and in 5-10 years you understand what I mean.

Everybody wants change as long as it comes at no expense to themselves

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@moonglade, it’s still a dirty tactic on their part to do that, omitting key information that changes the whole idea. If this is what it was going to be all along, they should have come out with the whole truth so that people knew what they’d be voting for. But of course the scumbag insurance lobby wouldn’t want that.

I simply thought they meant exactly what they said. I thought we were progressing, not underhanded business as usual again. Now we’re finding out a key detail that makes all the difference. Of course they obscured it on purpose.

As I said, I’d be more impressed if the government actually went after the root of health problems – emissions, pollution, junk food on every corner, junk food priced well below that of healthy food, cigarettes, household products made out of dangerous chemical crap, etc. Why don’t they get tough on that stuff? The fact that all they’ve really done is create another monthly bill for people shows what’s really going on here. Follow the money. We’re still free to smoke all the cigs we want, breathe in pollution, and pound big macs down our gullet, we’re still as free to destroy ourselves as we were before – but we’re not free to refuse another monthly bill – that says it all. Nothing was actually done about the real, physical causes of bad health – this is merely an insurance company powerplay. Bunch of fuckin’ shysters, all of them.

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@tangledupinplaid21,

This post is for you and anyone else who just wants straight up information on the mandatory health insurance. At the bottom of this post will be links to where I’m getting all of this information from, which is http://healthcare.gov for the most part. Even though I’m providing this info, please still do your own research into this topic. Just getting all of your information from one source isn’t very wise.

First to answer your questions:

Will it be taken directly out of my pay check? – No

Is it true that people who make 20,000 or less a year are exempt from this?
From what I’m understanding, if your income for the year meets the minimum amount needed to file taxes, then you have to get health insurance. If your yearly income does not meet the minimum needed to file, then you are exempted from the fee. On pg. 2 of this document(http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p501.pdf), see Table 1 for more details. I’m a little sketchy on this myself because I haven’t seen anywhere that your exempted if your income is below a certain income. This page(https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions/) shows qualification for exemptions from the “penalty fee” and qualifications for exemptions from actually having to get health insurance, known as “hardship exemptions”.

What is the penalty for not having insurance?
If someone does not get health insurance by March 31st of 2014, they will have to pay a penalization fee known as the “Individual Shared Responsibility Payment” from now on when they file their taxes. When you file your 2014 taxes at the beginning of 2015 and don’t have health insurance, you will have to pay $95 or 1% of your annual income(which ever is higher).

If my employer does not offer health insurance, what does that mean in regards to this?
That you will have to get your own individual health insurance.

One thing that I would like to make clear about this Affordable Health Care Act, which is the act that is pretty much making health insurance mandatory, THIS IS NOT A TAX. I repeat, this is not a tax. Calling this a tax would be the same thing as calling your monthly “rent” a tax. It’s not a tax. It’s a law requiring you to get health insurance, which is a bill. Taxes are what governments use in order to provide services to a country. Social Security and Medicare are taxes that are taken out of your paycheck. This Affordable Health Care Act “requires all people who can afford it to take responsibility for their own health insurance by getting coverage or paying a fee.” The government is not providing you with health insurance, the health insurance company of your choice. Once again, not a tax.

If you don’t have health insurance, Obama created the Health Insurance Marketplace in order to help people find affordable health insurance. If you go to this link(https://www.healthcare.gov/find-premium-estimates/) it will give you an estimate of what your expected monthly premium will be, which depends on what plan you choose.

Once again, this is my understanding of this information that I have found. Please research this own your own to come to your own understanding.

What if someone doesn’t have health coverage in 2014?
https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-someone-doesnt-have-health-coverage-in-2014/

How do I get an exemption from the fee for not having health coverage?
https://www.healthcare.gov/exemptions/

Exemptions, Standard Deduction,and Filing Information
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p501.pdf

What is the Health Insurance Marketplace?
https://www.healthcare.gov/what-is-the-health-insurance-marketplace/

How Federal Taxes Work
http://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/personal-income-taxes/federal-taxes.htm

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

I wonder how you make your text bold? Doesn’t seem like html tags are working and I don’t wont to use ascii codes.

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

There we go! Strong tag.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

Key words:

“If my employer does not offer health insurance, what does that mean in regards to this?
That you will have to get your own individual health insurance. ”

“The government is not providing you with health insurance, the health insurance company of your choice.”

Obamacare is no favor.

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@theskafish,

Damn. That one line, “The government is not providing you with health insurance, the health insurance company of your choice”, the end of that should be “the health insurance company of your choice is.”

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@monkeyzazu, haha. Didn’t even see that until you pointed it out. Wasn’t making fun. Just highlighting key points that I thought really hit home the idea that this new law is not a government-provided service, and what this whole thing really boils down to.

I guarantee we’re still going to have a lot of boneheads saying it’s a good idea. Either they’re still on their parents’ policy, are covered through work, or have no idea what’s about to hit them. Once they start having to kiss items they used to be able to afford goodbye, once they realize that they never seem to have any spare money anymore, they’ll change their tune.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@iammrself, “Personally, I think after a few years of being healthy and forking over your hard earned cash to Uncle Sam, people are going to detest this law. ”

I agree. But we won’t be forking our money over to Uncle Sam. It’s worse. We’ll be forking our money over to the damn insurance company bastards.

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MonkeyZazu (1,865)M (@monkeyzazu) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@iammrself, @moonglade, @theskafish, @jamesjohnson, @travis,

I actually think that the Affordable Health Care Act is good in the sense that if you want health insurance which helps you lower the cost of your medical bill, you can get it no matter your condition now. Before hand if health insurance companies found you too much at risk or too costly, they could deny you even if you really needed it. Now they can’t.

What’s bullshit is this. Obama passes the act that doesn’t allow health insurance companies to deny people anymore, yet somehow someone comes to the conclusion that the “only way” to make sure health insurance companies can afford this is to make health insurance mandatory for everyone? That’s not making any sense to me. There’s still a big problem. With things set up like that, it doesn’t help everyone. It only helps people who can actually afford their own health insurance, and exempts the penalty from those who can’t. The people who can’t afford health insurance are still going to have really high medical bills. That doesn’t make sense to me. Isn’t that why the act was passed in the first place?

Now I don’t know much about the government and how the finances work, but how come they couldn’t have made an actual tax out of this? If this was made into a tax, which is taken from people’s paychecks, then that would actually bring in more money than a mandatory monthly bill and actually helps everyone. The people who can’t afford health insurance would just have a cheaper tax I guess. The only reason they didn’t make this into a tax is probably because they would have to pay all that money back to the taxpayers at some point and maybe they can’t do that, I don’t know.

I would really like to know how other countries make this work as a tax? And I don’t think anyone is being “selfish” for not wanting this mandatory health insurance because its not making a lot of sense.

Anyone who can elaborate and make more sense of anything, please do.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@monkeyzazu, looks like backscratching to me. Obama wants to look good, so by disallowing insurance companies to deny anyone anymore, he gets to look like the hero. In return, he hog-ties, gag-balls, and gives away the whole country to the insurance companies. The Obama administration gets what they want, and insurance companies get what they want. And regular people get burned. People that fall through the cracks, making too much for welfare but not enough to have a benefited job (which usually allow one to actually live nicely), are going to get royally fucked. These people are going to be working hard but can forget actually getting anything, ever. They will be living just to pay bills. Perhaps they will eventually get pushed into the ranks of welfare beneficiaries themselves. This is only going to widen the gap between the working poor and the middle class, average American. I think it’s really crucial to point out what you said before – the government isn’t actually providing any kind of service or benefit to anyone. They are simply forcing everyone to buy insurance. This is not a government handout.

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@monkeyzazu, well a fee of $95 or 1% of my income is likely what will end up happening for me. I cannot afford this monthly bill. I did the estimate calculator thing and it said mine would be around $113. That’s unthinkable for me. Sorry guys.

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@monkeyzazu, and thank you for summarizing it for me. I’ll definitely look into it further too of course.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@tangledupinplaid21, do you qualify for any kind of assistance from the government, like welfare or anything like that? You may be able to get some kind of help or even and exemption.

Otherwise, this is exactly what I’m talking about. People caught in the middle, between being on welfare and a benefited job (which usually also pays well), are just going to be destroyed by this new bill. I only hope that if enough people get caught up in it, that the amount of disatisfied people will be so large that the law will be repealed. People shouldn’t be living just to pay bills, that’s slavery. We’ve just got to have a little more than that.

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@theskafish, I might, not sure. I probably just need to get a better paying job honestly but criminal record narrows the scope of possibility.

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TheSkaFish (962)M (@theskafish) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@tangledupinplaid21, ah shit, I’m sorry to hear that. Those things never go away though? Wouldn’t they disappear after a long amount of time of not breaking the law?

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Ellie (1,363)M (@tangledupinplaid21) 8 years, 1 month ago ago

@theskafish, yeah when I am 27 they should fall off, i’ve heard they do every seven years or so? I just turned 24.

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